Any thoughts on point charts for Lakeshore Lodge

[WinterSolider]

I believe that would be accurate if it’s not the new trust model. They have given them much more “power” over what they can do in this new trust based model

It doesn't matter if it would be legal, they're not going to do it.

 

[Hubalorian]

It doesn't matter if it would be legal, they're not going to do it.

I agree, no way they would. Just pointing out how the trust model is a different animal then the current model

 

[maui22]

Admittedly, haven't looked at cash prices in 15+ years. It used to be AKL and WL were the cheaper of the Deluxe resorts. I recall BWV was more than AKL and WL. For us, it was worth the extra to be able to walk/boat to Epcot and less so DHS (DHS was a half day park for us until Toy Story land and Star Wars land).

In recent times did Disney price point charts to help pay for changes?

• RIV was higher than BWV/BCV to pay for the skyliner, DHS opened Star Wars Land, and DHS opened Toy Story land just before RIV opened.
• BLT/VGF/PVB Fantasyland expansion
• VGF2/PVB2/CFW/LL Cars ride and Villains land.
• OG PVB just in time for GCH, pool work, hot tub changes, kitchen work, etc.
• VGF2 sold in time to pay for GF lobby rehab.

 

[🍀TwinsMom]

I thought I read somewhere that LSL is W-shaped, with a pool/lazy river in the nook of the W on one side and some other amenities on the other? IDR where/why that's in my brain.

I had peeked at the CFW in January and saw LSL construction then, but I have never been at FW beyond that. What types of views will the rooms have of the castle/fireworks? Can they really see much from the upper floors? It *seems* far away to me from the boat ride over there, but I certainly could be wrong.

My guess is the point chart is similar to Riviera. I do think every resort since Riviera they've really nailed the form/function/style/utility of the rooms, and LSL seems to be offering a ton of options. I'm assuming duos, studios, CFW bundled, 1B, 2B, 3B/GV, maybe club level, plus the A-frame cabins and some other style of room and/or club level.

I think they need to really plus up LSL to sell that many points so they don't have another Aulani on their hands to sell indefinitely. If they found a way to make club level all-inclusive with golf carts AND food AND maybe cabanas for a couple hours or something, there could be a bunch of other cabin-curious folks finding their way over there and buying.

 

[Girlstar30]

I guarantee LSL will be more points for a similar category at CCV. Cash guests are willing to pay more for a new hotel, I'm sure DVC will price accordingly, especially with a lazy river, what hotel recently has had lower points (CFW is not a hotel)

 

[WinterSolider]

I guarantee LSL will be more points for a similar category at CCV. Cash guests are willing to pay more for a new hotel, I'm sure DVC will price accordingly, especially with a lazy river, what hotel recently has had lower points (CFW is not a hotel)

That's not how the DVC points charts have worked, ever.

"DVC will price accordingly" by charging $250 per point rather than the $175 per point they charged for Copper Creek.

The points charts must maintain parity across the resorts relative to the long-term supply and demand or the whole system becomes bogged down and nobody would ever be able to book outside of their home resort window.

 

[Girlstar30]

That's not how the DVC points charts have worked, ever.

"DVC will price accordingly" by charging $250 per point rather than the $175 per point they charged for Copper Creek.

The points charts must maintain parity across the resorts relative to the long-term supply and demand or the whole system becomes bogged down and nobody would ever be able to book outside of their home resort window.

We will see

 

[Tatebeck]

That's not how the DVC points charts have worked, ever.

"DVC will price accordingly" by charging $250 per point rather than the $175 per point they charged for Copper Creek.

The points charts must maintain parity across the resorts relative to the long-term supply and demand or the whole system becomes bogged down and nobody would ever be able to book outside of their home resort window.

Do you also disagree with their thought that the new shiny Lakeshore Lodge rooms on the hotel side will be priced higher than an equivalent room at WL? Or just that the point chart won't be higher than CCV? Wouldn't a higher cash price usually mean a higher point chart in your view?

Because previously you have said that

There is no points chart inflation. Points chart differences across resorts are entirely explained by comparable cash price differences across resorts.

I understand that there is a balance that they must maintain, but at the same time that doesn't stop them from slightly increasing the average cost of a DVC room at the newer resorts by various means in addition to increasing the cost per point. Even if they do it in sneaky ways, which it seems like they have obviously been doing. BPK expansion added theme park view to VGF when it wasn't there before, increasing the cost of the avg studio in VGF. Poly tower relies heavily on Preferred and TP view which raises the average cost of a room to be higher than VGF for the new 1brs and 2brs I believe. Even CCV got sneaky and had the expensive cabins added so that the average cost of a room is going to be higher than BRV even with the fairly equivalent point charts for studios, 1br, and 2br. Most members buying do not expect to be booking those cabins, most want studios, 2br, or 1br. But the points were still sold and not everyone can book the studios every year.

Resort/point chart "parity" already is imbalanced because there are some rooms that people are almost always trying to book at 7 months (BWV, BCV come to mind) while others with similar point charts aren't booked as regularly at 7 months and are comparatively easier to book (AKV comes to mind as a comparison to BWV/BCV). AKV is the newest resort out of that set, with a much worse location, and all have good theming. If there was no point chart inflation over time, AKV should have been made substantially cheaper compared to BWV/BCV to account for its less desirability. AKV is usually one of the cheapest cash deluxe stays for this reason

 

[ark101]

Resort/point chart "parity" already is imbalanced because there are some rooms that people are almost always trying to book at 7 months (BWV, BCV come to mind) while others with similar point charts aren't booked as regularly at 7 months and are comparatively easier to book (AKV comes to mind as a comparison to BWV/BCV). AKV is the newest resort out of that set, with a much worse location, and all have good theming. If there was no point chart inflation over time, AKV should have been made substantially cheaper compared to BWV/BCV to account for its less desirability. AKV is usually one of the cheapest cash deluxe stays for this reason

Believe it or not, AKV is priced higher for cash reservations than BCV or BWV. (I priced it out in 2019 before we became DVC members and I just checked a random week in Nov 25 and March 26). The point @WinterSoldier is making (I think) is the point charts will be based on what Disney thinks it can price the rooms for long term. Desirability, location, newness, theming are all our biases. Sure, they can discount AKV more for cash reservations if they want to fill those rooms but that is likely a supply issue (lot more studios there).

Personally, I think LSL will have point charts similar to CCV for standard/resort view rooms and higher for lake view/preferred which don't exists for CCV and much much higher for the new room types (cabins/A frames).

 

[Tatebeck]

Believe it or not, AKV is priced higher for cash reservations than BCV or BWV. (I priced it out in 2019 before we became DVC members and I just checked a random week in Nov 25 and March 26). The point @WinterSoldier is making (I think) is the point charts will be based on what Disney thinks it can price the rooms for long term. Desirability, location, newness, theming are all our biases. Sure, they can discount AKV more for cash reservations if they want to fill those rooms but that is likely a supply issue (lot more studios there).

Personally, I think LSL will have point charts similar to CCV for standard/resort view rooms and higher for lake view/preferred which don't exists for CCV and much much higher for the new room types (cabins/A frames).

When I checked in 2023* and 2022 AKV was cheaper both times than the crescent lake resorts. We paid the extra to stay in the crescent lake area though at YC and then BC. So maybe they change which is the cheapest at times.

Of course the point charts and cash prices will generally follow each other. They are both Disney pricing their own rooms after all. And newer resorts are the shiny new thing and will often cost more than an older resort. So it makes sense that they may slightly increase the point charts as well.

But DVC is different than cash rooms. Disney can forever change the cash price of their rooms. Increase them when demand is high and make them cheaper when demand is low. But each DVC resort is a closed set of points and rooms. There will be the same amount of points and rooms for each resort until they expire. So the average point cost for a room will not change over the course of the resort, and Disney cannot raise the average point cost. They can shift it to a different season according to demand, or even controversially to a different room type. But the average point cost of a room will always be the same.

And so it would make sense for Disney to price it slightly on the higher end of where they think cash prices may end up. And they may do it sneakily like I have already mentioned. Maybe they would choose the 51st percentile on a scale from 1-100 for example.

 

[sethschroeder]

I imagine if the cabins get rolled-into LL, their point cost would rise to the 2 bedroom villa territory. Based on my understanding, it would be legal to do so.

I would question that being allowed.

Disney has moved points to the NEW rooms when Treehouse was added at SSR however this was to the detriment of the developer so likely is allowed to occur. However Disney selling point allotment for a set number of rooms then increasing that total later I think would not be allowed and Disney would either not do it or would be challenged and lose.

I believe that would be accurate if it’s not the new trust model. They have given them much more “power” over what they can do in this new trust based model

The only thing the new trust allows them to do is change how the exchange works not how people that own at the resort as a home resort use their points and allotted their points.

Disney can move points between the seasons but they are very unlikely able to redistribute points and they absolutely can't just be adding points. Otherwise they in theory could add 1 room and 1b points to the system devaluing it all.

 

[sethschroeder]

Regarding point inflation I dont think it happens every single resort. It has occurred though as look at BWV/BCV compared to alternatives. Those will be sold at a higher point cost likely.

Hopefully not because if they keep those point costs the same I am on board with that when another resort goes on sale and would likely sell my Riviera at that point.

 

[ark101]

When I checked in 2019 and 2022 AKV was cheaper both times than the crescent lake resorts. We paid the extra to stay in the crescent lake area though at YC and then BC

Ha! Interesting. I paid more to stay in a savanna view 2BR! Must depend on seasonality then. We went in Dec 2019. To be clear, I checked studio prices just now to compare (standard/resort).

 

[WinterSolider]

Believe it or not, AKV is priced higher for cash reservations than BCV or BWV. (I priced it out in 2019 before we became DVC members and I just checked a random week in Nov 25 and March 26). The point @WinterSoldier is making (I think) is the point charts will be based on what Disney thinks it can price the rooms for long term. Desirability, location, newness, theming are all our biases. Sure, they can discount AKV more for cash reservations if they want to fill those rooms but that is likely a supply issue (lot more studios there).

Personally, I think LSL will have point charts similar to CCV for standard/resort view rooms and higher for lake view/preferred which don't exists for CCV and much much higher for the new room types (cabins/A frames).

There are definitely weird anomalies when it comes to specific view categories. Like Boardwalk Standard View is way too cheap in points.

 

[Tatebeck]

Ha! Interesting. I paid more to stay in a savanna view 2BR! Must depend on seasonality then. We went in Dec 2019. To be clear, I checked studio prices just now to compare (standard/resort).

I just checked the hotel side, AK Lodge has the cheapest option between AK, BC, YC, and BW for all the dates I checked. When specifically comparing resorts I usually check for a hotel room instead of a studio if possible (some resorts are not available as hotels if they are 100% DVC though) as they are more reliable to determine how Disney feels about their different resorts. DVC villa cash availability through Disney is very spotty and depends on breakage, how many points Disney owns through ROFR or repossession, if members did cruise/ABD swaps etc.

It is definitely weird that their villas would be more comparatively, but the hotel rooms cheaper

 

[Hubalorian]

I would question that being allowed.

Disney has moved points to the NEW rooms when Treehouse was added at SSR however this was to the detriment of the developer so likely is allowed to occur. However Disney selling point allotment for a set number of rooms then increasing that total later I think would not be allowed and Disney would either not do it or would be challenged and lose.



The only thing the new trust allows them to do is change how the exchange works not how people that own at the resort as a home resort use their points and allotted their points.

Disney can move points between the seasons but they are very unlikely able to redistribute points and they absolutely can't just be adding points. Otherwise they in theory could add 1 room and 1b points to the system devaluing it all.

Disney has given themselves the power to reallocate across room types until the entire resort is sold out. For example, the next loop of cabins could cost more per night, but they balance it out by modifying the existing point chart. Read the document if you don’t believe me. They also have much stricter rental rule language in the trust