Any Reformed FP- Uber Users Who Have Embraced FP+ ?

[Disneylover99]

That wasn't my experience, which I posted a couple of pages back. I got at least a third more (and honestly closer to double) the number of FPs with FP+. 11 FP in a 12 hour day at the parks that included two sit down meals would not have been possible with FP- - nowhere near possible. It was with FP+, which is why I'm now a reformed hater.

That must have been a very low crowd day to get BTMRR at 7:30pm with a return time 15 minutes later. My question is, did you really need to use fp+ that day? It sounds like most rides would have been a walk on anyways.

 

[Suvadoo]

Lake - earlier you referenced a ride at Universal having a 90 minute standby line with a 15 minute express pass line. Just curious what attraction that was for?

Express Pass access sounds like a nice feature, but it seems like an apples and oranges thing compared to FP+, both in terms of benefit it supplies and the number of guests who have access.

Sounds like you are saying the express lines for Universal resort guests are about 15 to 20 minutes long? Sure, 15 or 20 minutes isn't that long, but it is a lot compared to how long we waited with FP+ for TSMM, Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, 7DMT, Peter Pan, Pirates, Star Tours, Test Track, Soarin', which was 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 2, 2. That would be 3 hours and 20 minutes in line if every FP+ line was 20 minutes, which Disney could accomplish by distributing more FP+, but they choose to keep the FP+ line at a minimum. 3 FP+ with minimal waits, or more with a 20 minute wait. That's the choice, and Disney has gone with the former. That works for me, but I realize that might not work for everyone.

Yes, there are bound to be examples of people waiting in longer FP return lines. Happened to us at Tower of Terror, but only because half the elevators were down.

When we eventually do head to Universal I do look forward to staying in one of the on-site resorts. They look nice, and the express line access, while different from Disney's FP+, looks like a nice system.

I know you're addressing your question to Laketravis, but I know from his previous posts that he was at Universal over NYE season this year. so, it was a really crowded time of year.
Are you saying you were able to get all the FP+'s you mention at this same time of year?

 

[rajak73]

Two very telling posts.

We always have been and likely always will be offsite guests. (At this point I know many just dismiss any preferences or feelings I have, but I'll go on because my economy of vacations is the same no matter where I go.)

For my family of 8 to visit WDW for five day, non-hopping it is ~ $2300. So $460/day. I like to go in May or October and MK is generally open 12 hours when we are there. (Roughly.)

So - in my economy - every hour I am not in the park, actively enjoying ourselves, we are throwing away money. We would never leave a park. We like to go for two weeks, so we have RD to kick-us-out every other day, and chill out on the off days. We see that as maximizing our vacation dollars.

It's hard to accept we may get 2/3 as much fun for that price tag.

I'm sure we'll go back some time. I want my youngest DDs to see the parks. But it'll be a tough pill to swallow if we have 2/3 less fun. :{

Have you tried FP+ and got 2/3 less fun or are you just going by what is said on these boards? We were there the first 2 weeks of Dec, same as you except onsite with RV. One day at parks, one day off, we got so much more done this time than when we were here in 2011 and 2012. We were at RD at most parks this year and everything was walk-on until late morning, no different than in past years. I'm not "running" to any attraction, I'm on vacation! We've never rode TSM and to us that hasn't diminished our park experience at all. We rode more this time than we did in 2011-2012. Just our personal experience with FP+ and parks.

 

[Laketravis]

Lake - earlier you referenced a ride at Universal having a 90 minute standby line with a 15 minute express pass line. Just curious what attraction that was for?

Express Pass access sounds like a nice feature, but it seems like an apples and oranges thing compared to FP+, both in terms of benefit it supplies and the number of guests who have access..

It was Minion Mayhem, which we found to have the highest wait times of any attraction in both parks (including the ultra popular Harry Potter stuff) because it is at the front of the park and has relatively low capacity. So while that was an extreme example it illustrated why Express seems to work better than FP+

First of all, Express is not a "front of the line" system. It works just like FP+ does in relation to the standby queue. But Express uses a higher ratio of SB to EP; meaning they let more standby quests thru the line before stopping them and letting EP guests thru the line.

The effect is that we experienced EP wait times that were 1/4th to 1/5th the posted SB wait time. And even over New Years, the SB wait times did not get to ridiculous levels. The most we ever saw was 100 minutes and that was a spike that only lasted an hour or so until dropping to 45.

So while EP doesn't necessarily mean being able to walk right up and get on or into an attraction, it does an admirable job of reducing the wait time to levels that guests find perfectly acceptable - and are even willing to pay a lot extra for. Note how the price for unlimited EP for an off-site guest varies based on demand.

In direct contrast, FP+ promotes a "no wait at all for everyone for three for free" concept, which I think is similar to an old rule of thumb in the call center industry when it comes to high volume demand, low duration events (calls) - consider that it costs almost twice as much in labor costs to answer a call in one ring as it does to answer that call in three rings. So why incur the additional costs to answer in one ring when most if not all callers are just as impressed that their call was answered in three?

Same thing applies to FP - why tilt the FP to SB queue levels in such an extreme manner as to allow an almost minimal wait time for FP when most if not all guests would be fine with a 10 or 15 minute wait (versus a posted 45 or 60 minute standby wait) and they can do so with as many attractions as they want each day?

The aggregate wait time may be higher but it is spread over a larger populous of events/attractions consisting of acceptably shorter wait times.

 

[Laketravis]

We rode more this time than we did in 2011-2012. Just our personal experience with FP+ and parks.

We were there 11/20 thru 12/5 and rode Carousel of Progress/PeopleMover more times then we ever did before in our life, but only because we used our 3 FP's and the standby wait times for just about everything else were unacceptable to us and it felt like there was nothing else to do. In the other three parks, there was most definitely diminished value.

 

[rajak73]

We were there Dec 1-16, After the 3 fp at MK, most everything else EXCEPT 7DMT and A&E were 10-20 min wait at different times of the day. Of course middle of the day things were busy so we just did other things until after things calmed down. We rode SM 10min. Buzz 10 min, BTM 10 min, POTC was longest wait 20 min, Jingle Cruise 15 min, cop is always walk on along with people mover, didn't ride speedway way but wait was 15 min. Had FP for PP, 7DMT and Belle. MK was the only park we used all three FP at. What we did notice was people standing at a FP entrance waiting to use the FP and the standby was 10 min. Why would you wait when you could walk on anyway? Just our experience.

 

[Laketravis]

We were there Dec 1-16, After the 3 fp at MK, most everything else EXCEPT 7DMT and A&E were 10-20 min wait at different times of the day. Of course middle of the day things were busy so we just did other things until after things calmed down. We rode SM 10min. Buzz 10 min, BTM 10 min, POTC was longest wait 20 min, Jingle Cruise 15 min, cop is always walk on along with people mover, didn't ride speedway way but wait was 15 min. Had FP for PP, 7DMT and Belle. MK was the only park we used all three FP at. What we did notice was people standing at a FP entrance waiting to use the FP and the standby was 10 min. Why would you wait when you could walk on anyway? Just our experience.

The first two weeks of December are historically low crowds, but you make an excellent point. You found 10-20 minute wait times to be perfectly acceptable. In fact, you had to wonder why anyone would even "waste" an FP when the standby line was 10 minutes.

I agree. So what if the parks had been busy with posted SB wait times of 45-60 minutes but the FP+ line was 10 or 15 minutes and you weren't limited to three attractions? I think most guests would find a 10 or 15 minute wait inconsequential and would rave about how great FP+ is.

Disney may have simply made a mistake in calibrating guest expectations when it comes to how long an FP line should be.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I would love to see this implemented at WDW, but I doubt it's practical, or that it would actually have the desired effect. There are only 3 resorts at Universal, so the express pass lines are reasonable. If all 22 resorts at WDW had front of the line privileges, they'd be too long to be of much value, I imagine...

Likely true. What if, though, Disney broke up the benefits between the resorts? For example, they could split the resorts into 4 different groups. Contemporary, Polynesian, Caribbean Beach, and Art of Animation could be group one, Grand Floridian, Wilderness Lodge, Port Orleans (both), and Pop Century could be group 2, Beach Club, Yacht Club, Boardwalk, and Coronado Springs could be group 3, and Animal Kingdom Lodge and the All Stars could be group 4. On one day, group one could have extra magic hours at one park while group 2 had extra magic hours at another, group 3 at another, and group 4 and the last park. Or, you could make it so that everyone has FP+ but each group has access to legacy FP or more FP+ at a certain park each day. Or, do something similar to Universal where each group has front of the line access in a specific park each day. Changes would have to be made, of course. Things like Wishes and MSEP would have to be offered every night, but it seems to me that that would really help with crowd control and increasing the benefits of staying on site would increase the likelihood of people staying in one of Disney's resorts.

 

[rajak73]

In the other three parks, there was most definitely diminished value.

And for US we just didn't find that to be true, At Epcot arrived 9ish, rode SE, 10 min. Had FP for Soarin, 9:20-10:20, TT, (happened to read about the glitch with tiering on here so changed things,) 10:20-11:20, and Mission Space 11:20-12:20, lunch at Germany, (CP package) at 1pm. Head to Soaring after SE, ride at 9:25, go to Nemo, walk on, ride Nemo, head to Imagination, walk on, head to TT, stop and watch garbage drummers, ride TT at 10:30, check Mission Space, 10 min, why wait until 11:30 to use FP when we can ride now? By 11:30 we were in WS. In 2012, arrive 9ish, ride SE, 10 min (or we wouldn't have rode if wait was longer than that) head to Soaring, return time for FP is 8pm and standby 45 min. Head to TT, same except return was mid afternoon, interfered with ADR, I couldn't change time for FP- return time. Also, I don't "run" to any attraction when we are on vacation. And that includes other places besides Disney that we have been, I don't know why it is so hard to grasp that the way some people tour and their expectations of a good time is not the same as the next person. I've seen you post about Uni, that's great for YOU, for US we've been, nothing to hold our interest past 2 days, just OUR preference, doesn't make me right or wrong and doesn't make you right or wrong, just 2 different ways of looking at things. If you don't think Disney is a good fit for your family, by all means don't go, I would do the same thing if I didn't think I was getting what I expected out of Disney. Maybe I see things different because we only go every 4-5 years and are not local.

 

[rajak73]

The first two weeks of December are historically low crowds, but you make an excellent point. You found 10-20 minute wait times to be perfectly acceptable. In fact, you had to wonder why anyone would even "waste" an FP when the standby line was 10 minutes.

I agree. So what if the parks had been busy with posted SB wait times of 45-60 minutes but the FP+ line was 10 or 15 minutes and you weren't limited to three attractions? I think most guests would find a 10 or 15 minute wait inconsequential and would rave about how great FP+ is.

Disney may have simply made a mistake in calibrating guest expectations when it comes to how long an FP line should be.

But if you go during a "busy" time, aren't you going to figure you are going to have to wait anyway? We've been during "busy" times, shortly after MS opened, waited 90 min to ride but that was OUR choice.

 

[Laketravis]

Maybe I see things different because we only go every 4-5 years and are not local.

I don't think we see things differently at all. We aren't local either and would love to be able to go during the two weeks that you did and be able to accomplish what you did. So in many respects our expectations are exactly the same, the difference is yours were satisfied, ours were not, and it's only because we went at different times.

 

[wisblue]

And for US we just didn't find that to be true, At Epcot arrived 9ish, rode SE, 10 min. Had FP for Soarin, 9:20-10:20, TT, (happened to read about the glitch with tiering on here so changed things,) 10:20-11:20, and Mission Space 11:20-12:20, lunch at Germany, (CP package) at 1pm. Head to Soaring after SE, ride at 9:25, go to Nemo, walk on, ride Nemo, head to Imagination, walk on, head to TT, stop and watch garbage drummers, ride TT at 10:30, check Mission Space, 10 min, why wait until 11:30 to use FP when we can ride now? By 11:30 we were in WS. In 2012, arrive 9ish, ride SE, 10 min (or we wouldn't have rode if wait was longer than that) head to Soaring, return time for FP is 8pm and standby 45 min. Head to TT, same except return was mid afternoon, interfered with ADR, I couldn't change time for FP- return time. Also, I don't "run" to any attraction when we are on vacation. And that includes other places besides Disney that we have been, I don't know why it is so hard to grasp that the way some people tour and their expectations of a good time is not the same as the next person. I've seen you post about Uni, that's great for YOU, for US we've been, nothing to hold our interest past 2 days, just OUR preference, doesn't make me right or wrong and doesn't make you right or wrong, just 2 different ways of looking at things. If you don't think Disney is a good fit for your family, by all means don't go, I would do the same thing if I didn't think I was getting what I expected out of Disney. Maybe I see things different because we only go every 4-5 years and are not local.

Keep in mind that LT was at WDW for 16 days , with at least 10 park days, for the second consecutive year. He has also said that he doesn't like repetition. So, it shouldn't be too surprising that at some point it would be hard to find new and interesting things to do in the Disney parks. That is obviously a much different situation than a guest who only visits for a few days or a week once every few years.

 

[mom2rtk]

Keep in mind that LT was at WDW for 16 days , with at least 10 park days, for the second consecutive year. He has also said that he doesn't like repetition. So, it shouldn't be too surprising that at some point it would be hard to find new and interesting things to do in the Disney parks. That is obviously a much different situation than a guest who only visits for a few days or a week once every few years.

The PP was there from 12/1 to 12/16, so both he and LT had more days than the average WDW visitor.

 

[Laketravis]

If all 22 resorts at WDW had front of the line privileges, they'd be too long to be of much value, I imagine...

Likely true. What if, though, Disney broke up the benefits between the resorts?

I'm not some Universal advocate slamming Disney; I just looked at the mechanics of Express Pass, can see why it can work better than FP+, and think that with just some small changes WDW could greatly improve the current system.

What I'm suggesting is that perhaps all WDW has to do is stop promoting FP+ as a zero-wait solution and instead promote it as a "shorter than standby" solution.

Because it appears that most people agree a 10-15 minute wait is not a big deal. If WDW would simply adjust the FP/SB ratios AND guest expectations to allow for 10-15 minute FP wait times, the SB waits would be shorter and there would be no need for a limit of three in one park per day. Mathematically, it may very well accommodate all 22 resorts at 80% occupancy. Off site guests? Make 'em pay a sliding scale based on demand and adjust the ratios slightly.

 

[Laketravis]

Keep in mind that LT was at WDW for 16 days , with at least 10 park days, for the second consecutive year. He has also said that he doesn't like repetition. So, it shouldn't be too surprising that at some point it would be hard to find new and interesting things to do in the Disney parks. That is obviously a much different situation than a guest who only visits for a few days or a week once every few years.

Wrong.

 

[MrInfinity]

You will have the same blast you always have despite all the banter and debate on here. If you rope drop any major rides you can't get FP+ for you will be totally fine and it will feel like it did before if not better.

I'm realizing just how much I like FP+. I was always our FP runner. My vacation was much more relaxing with the new plan. We stuck together as a family and knew we had three guaranteed afternoon no line rides. We also got plenty of bonus FP+ after 4:00 pm.

I'm now willing to stand up and say I'm a uber FP- user who loves FP+.

Just back from 2 weeks away, what a great thread to come back to! This is really how I feel about it... Disney World is the same, everyone can have just as much fun as always, and FP+ helps make it even better. It just takes embracing the new system and figuring it out.

As someone else said, as long as there are people on the planet, most of them will be lazy and uninformed. So read up a little, and you'll be worlds ahead of the crowd, which is all people out here want anyways.

I felt with FP+ I could do all I wanted, with less stress than before. More certainty about what we'll get to. No need to split up, ever. But still having the option to split up if that's what your family wants. No feeling like I have to rush to the next ride or miss out on FP's cuz I've got them already in my pocket. No uncertainty about when a FP- will give you a return time for. Standby lines were just as good as before, if not better. We definitely had a more relaxed trip, less pressure on having to get to the next thing. We were more willing to take in the little things cuz there is no time pressure when you have your Fast Passes already. Rope drop was still awesome, we had no trouble being first to the turnstyles in most cases. Things were not super crowded first thing, and Rope Drop was not made worthless by people with FPs, there just weren't a lot of ppl using FP at the early times. Again, cuz most people DO NOT ROPE DROP. So people who didn't rope drop before, are not now, suddenly taking FPs for rope drop.

Can't wait to go back! Already planning for Dec...

 

[Shaden]

We were there Dec 1-16, After the 3 fp at MK, most everything else EXCEPT 7DMT and A&E were 10-20 min wait at different times of the day. Of course middle of the day things were busy so we just did other things until after things calmed down. We rode SM 10min. Buzz 10 min, BTM 10 min, POTC was longest wait 20 min, Jingle Cruise 15 min, cop is always walk on along with people mover, didn't ride speedway way but wait was 15 min. Had FP for PP, 7DMT and Belle. MK was the only park we used all three FP at. What we did notice was people standing at a FP entrance waiting to use the FP and the standby was 10 min. Why would you wait when you could walk on anyway? Just our experience.

You are touring at one of the least busy times of the year, having walk ons at that point isn't surprising, and has nothing to do with FP+.

That being said, if you look at the stats behind the rides, its likely you actually say higher wait times for those rides than you would have without FP+. We know, for a fact, that wait times for many (if not all) of the wait middle or the road rides, and especially rides that didn't have legacy FP and now have FP+ have increased.

The problem with your assessment is causality. Is it possible to go and get lots done under FP+ ? Sure it is, your experience is proof of that, but did FP+ facilitate that, limit that, or have no impact at all ? That is another question entirely.

 

[TISHLOVESDISNEY]

OP-RD is fantastic, especially if MK opens at 8. We were there Nov 30th-Dec 5th.
Nov 30th MK walked to Adventureland first, ghost town!
Dec 2nd, MK did TL, again,empty. Poor Stitch was lonely so we stopped 2 different times for pics.
Now, that week had VERY LOW crowds on the TP site, so there is that.
BUT RD is still an advantage.
We picked away at FL with FPs, avoiding it first thing, except for NFL, that we did after TL and had no waits.

I find it just amazing though, since others brought up Universal, the difference in a crowd 2 at MK and a crowd 2 at Universal!
I purchased EP, just incase since we were covering both parks in one day, and we only "needed" twice. Crazy. Gringotts was only a 15 min wait at 4ish. I'm guessing SDMT at that same time was a lot more.

Anyway, as others have stated, after 3 FPs, even on low crowds, we couldn't get anything worthy when it worked for us.
But, a plus is, if a ride goes down, you can use it anytime or ride something else. SDMT went down, but we still rode it just 2 hours later.
Also, Splash went down right after the riverboat, so technically we rode it, but they gave us a free FP, so we could ride from a list of rides.
Also, had FP for EE, but didn't need it, rode standby 2x. So we were able to change our Fps to KRR.
In the end, I think we'd love FP+, if they just made a few more changes. 3 initial picks just isn't enough with the crowds at Disney. IMHO
Don't get me started on the tiering, we didn't have a problem at HS, bcuz we have a son who was tall enuf for TOT, but I wasn't ready for that for him, so we could use child swap to cover those rides. But Epcot, we only got in TT since we didn't do RD that day. And, you could say, well without FP+ we may not have even got in TT... There are good things...
Enjoy your trip!!

 

[wisblue]

Wrong.

OK.Specifically what did I say that was wrong?

 

[wisblue]

The PP was there from 12/1 to 12/16, so both he and LT had more days than the average WDW visitor.

He also said that they only visit every 4-5 years.