Any orthos out there? What about overbite relapse? Please help - I'm worried!!

[sksjasams]

DS14 has had his braces for 22 mos. He started with nice spacing and smile, but deep overbite. Lower teeth would disappear behind the upper teeth.

Ortho had him on rubberbands for a couple months a while back (along with a colored elastic strip across top). DS was diligent about them, and when teeth were in place ortho said he could stop them. Fast forward several months and his overbite was back. Rubberbands back on, colored strip back on and teeth moved right back in place. He is scheduled for debanding next month.

I asked an assistant what is to stop the teeth from moving back after the braces are off, and she replied the retainer would hold them in place. I said if the braces could not hold them in place, why would the retainer hold them in place? She couldn't answer that.

So, at this appt. I asked the ortho the same question. He said they will likely relapse some after the braces are off. Huh? He said the kids that do not comply with rubberbands, and end up wearing their braces 30-40 months have much less relapse than those kids who where them diligently. He said we could continue on and on, that each time they relapse and put rubberbands back on, the degree of relapse would get less and less. That does not sound like an option to me, and I don't even think he was implying it was an option.

This has put me into a bit of panic/knot in my stomach. Over $4k spent, and the overbite will likely come back?

Anyone have any experience with this? Any orthos out there, or Dis'rs close to an ortho...what do you make of this, and is this standard?

Thanks for your help!!

 

[PinballFamily]

Not an ortho here, but...DH had a *slightly* similar situation (bottom teeth getting back out of alignment after adult braces). He had had braces as a teen, too, but things drifted back. Our ortho cemented a "permanent" wire on the back of his four front lower teeth to keep them in place. It has worked and is not visible at all from the front.

Not sure if any variant of this would work for a top overbite or not...? What we do know (from our kids' ortho) is that boys jaws continue to grow until about age 18. This may dramatically increase the space your son's top teeth have to continue to move around...sorry.

I'd be upset too - your ortho kinda sounds like "I got your $...don't really care if my treatment plan worked for your kid or not." I wouldn't be in a rush to do any debanding, but maybe schedule time directly with the ortho to discuss future treatment and options, rather than trying to tack a discussion on to an existing appt time when he/she may be rushed to get to the next patient?

Good luck!

 

[bumbershoot]

What we do know (from our kids' ortho) is that boys jaws continue to grow until about age 18.

Your ortho admitted that? That might be a first. I do wonder what the reasoning is behind braces before a jaw has stopped growing? I was told I didn't have any room in my mouth so they yanked a bunch etc etc, and now that I'm an adult there is so much room in the back of my jaw...wish they'd waited for my face to finish up before they pulled teeth. And I wish I'd never had braces.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Your ortho admitted that? That might be a first. I do wonder what the reasoning is behind braces before a jaw has stopped growing? I was told I didn't have any room in my mouth so they yanked a bunch etc etc, and now that I'm an adult there is so much room in the back of my jaw...wish they'd waited for my face to finish up before they pulled teeth. And I wish I'd never had braces.

Maybe it's about catching the parents while the kids are still kids. If everyone waited until they started college to get braces, it's likely there would be a lot fewer kids with braces in the world. Having crooked teeth would take a back seat to the onslaught of expenses.

My kids just got braces in January. Gosh I hope their teeth don't shift back while they're still in braces. I've already told them they will need to wear their retainer FOREVER.
I have a coworker (paid for her own as an adult) who still wears her retainer to bed a few nights per week. It's been around 15 years and her teeth are still perfect. Everyone else's have shifted.

Sorry I'm not helping you OP. We are still new to orthodontics.

 

[Pakey]

I wore braces for 10 years. After a few years mine started shifting. I now have a permanent retainer in place that's now been there for 10 years; I was told that even after these 10 years my teeth would shift if I remove the permanent retainer.

 

[sksjasams]

Thanks for the replies and support.

I know he will need to wear the retainers forever, but we are looking at relapse inspite of it. That's why I am upset.

Apparently, his teeth are going to shift and his overbite will come back, perhaps at a lesser degree, but his teeth will not stay the way they are now...even with complete compliance with the retainers.

You would think by now someone would have invented a way to attach rubberbands to retainers!

 

[NYCDiane]

Your ortho admitted that? That might be a first. I do wonder what the reasoning is behind braces before a jaw has stopped growing? I was told I didn't have any room in my mouth so they yanked a bunch etc etc, and now that I'm an adult there is so much room in the back of my jaw...wish they'd waited for my face to finish up before they pulled teeth. And I wish I'd never had braces.

I've seen kids as young as 8 with braces. They called them "pre-braces" or "starter braces" or some other gimmicky thing. ABSURD!!!! It was just a gimmick for the orthodontist to make some extra money. These kids will wear these "pre-braces" or "starter braces" for a couple of years and then they'll get them the "full braces".

So, go for $3K for "pre-braces" or "starter braces" and then another $3 or $4K for "full braces" and then whatever the retainer and aftercare will be.

What a racket!!!!

 

[cvjw]

I've seen kids as young as 8 with braces. They called them "pre-braces" or "starter braces" or some other gimmicky thing. ABSURD!!!! It was just a gimmick for the orthodontist to make some extra money. These kids will wear these "pre-braces" or "starter braces" for a couple of years and then they'll get them the "full braces".

So, go for $3K for "pre-braces" or "starter braces" and then another $3 or $4K for "full braces" and then whatever the retainer and aftercare will be.

What a racket!!!!

It might be a racket to you, but the early braces worked perfectly for both of my boys. Around here, it is called phase 1 (around age 7/8) and phase 2 when the kids reach middle school.

My oldest son had to have phase 1 braces for one tooth that had a really bad crossbite. It had to be fixed before phase 2 braces could be installed. He also needed early braces to enlarge his palate - which means to make your mouth big enough to let all of your permanent teeth come thru.

My youngest son had to have phase 1 braces to enlarge his palate. His mouth was so small that his 2 top, front teeth could not even come thru. My dentist told me that his teeth would come in sideways if he did not see an orthodontist ASAP to have his mouth enlarged to let those teeth down in the correct position.

Both boys went on to have phase 2 braces in middles school. My oldest has the most beautiful teeth - braces really paid off for him. My youngest is about to get phase 2 braces off, and I'm sure his will look just as great.

 

[NYCDiane]

It might be a racket to you, but the early braces worked perfectly for both of my boys. Around here, it is called phase 1 (around age 7/8) and phase 2 when the kids reach middle school.

My oldest son had to have phase 1 braces for one tooth that had a really bad crossbite. It had to be fixed before phase 2 braces could be installed. He also needed early braces to enlarge his palate - which means to make your mouth big enough to let all of your permanent teeth come thru.

My youngest son had to have phase 1 braces to enlarge his palate. His mouth was so small that his 2 top, front teeth could not even come thru. My dentist told me that his teeth would come in sideways if he did not see an orthodontist ASAP to have his mouth enlarged to let those teeth down in the correct position.

Both boys went on to have phase 2 braces in middles school. My oldest has the most beautiful teeth - braces really paid off for him. My youngest is about to get phase 2 braces off, and I'm sure his will look just as great.

What you're talking about is a PALATE EXPANDER, not "pre braces" or "starter Braces". A lot of kids get those.

I don't know if your one son really needed the brace put on his crossbite tooth. My daughter had two really bad teeth. One was a molar that looked like it was growing in sideways (eventually corrected itself). The other was one of her front teeth (on the side but more toward the front). It wasn't all the way down AND it was almost sideways because of her thumb sucking. I asked the Ortho if she should have something done about it first? He said no and that the braces would correct everything. (they did and her teeth are gorgeous now!)

A dentist (before I took my daughter to the Orthodontist) tried to get me to get a "habit breaker" for my daughter so she wouldn't suck her thumb anymore. I wasn't about to lay out the money for that when she was so young. I took her to the Orthodontist and he said there is no need at all for a "habit breaker". He said that once she is old enough for the braces, the braces themselves will be the "habit breaker" because she won't be able to suck her thumb comfortably with the braces on. (and he was right)

That's just another example of a racket they have going. They make up all these gimmicky things and convince parents that they absolutely MUST have it for their child. Had I not thought to get that second opinion, I would have laid out a few 100 $$ for something she didn't need.

 

[sksjasams]

Please, please help this stay on track...

Anyone at all have any experieince with overbite or deep bite relapse??

Thank you for your help!!

 

[mjkacmom]

Please, please help this stay on track...

Anyone at all have any experieince with overbite or deep bite relapse??

Thank you for your help!!

Dd16 has a permanent retainer, and her's haven't shifted, but she still goes in every 3 months for a checkup. However, she had a crossbite.

As for different phases, there are just different ways orthodontists approach treatment - I don't think any are right or wrong. Ours usually uses just one phase, and that's what my kids are doing. I kind of wish he did 2 phases with ds10 - his front teeth are a mess, and he is a very slow teether, so he will have to keep his mouth closed in photos for several years.

It seems that both the 1 phase and 2 phase treatments cost about the same in the end. Ours average $6500 per kid.

 

[ortholablady]

I've worked as an orthodontic assistant and lab tech for over 30 years. I make retainers. Did your son ever have a bite plate? It's usually necessary to even put on the lower braces. It keeps the upper teeth from hitting the lower braces in the case of a deep overbite.
The orthodontist I work for now has a slight bite plate (thicker acrylic behind the front teeth) built into the retainer to prevent relapse of a deep overbite.

 

[ortholablady]

A bite plate also corrects the overbite. When it first goes in only the lower front teeth contact it. Within a couple of weeks the back teeth start to come together so more teeth are making contact and the bite in front eventually stays where you can see those lower teeth without the bite plate.

 

[sksjasams]

I've worked as an orthodontic assistant and lab tech for over 30 years. I make retainers. Did your son ever have a bite plate? It's usually necessary to even put on the lower braces. It keeps the upper teeth from hitting the lower braces in the case of a deep overbite.
The orthodontist I work for now has a slight bite plate (thicker acrylic behind the front teeth) built into the retainer to prevent relapse of a deep overbite.

Thank you - I will ask about that possiblity. So, there is no such thing as a retainer with rubber bands?

DS did not have a bite plate. The ortho used small ramps behind the front teeth instead.

 

[sksjasams]

Anyone at all have any experience with overbite or deep bite relapse even when retainers are consistently worn??

Thanks again!

 

[ortholablady]

Ok bite ramps are another option to open the bite. Much the same as a bite plate. If the front teeth protruded meaning also stuck out in front of the lowers not just covered them when biting that would require rubber bands. I know also having worked for 2 different orthodontists their type of retainers and wearing requirements vary. Also your son is 14 so he is still growing so that includes jaw growth.

 

[ortholablady]

ok, now thinking about this some more the teeth could not have been too far forward or the bite ramps wouldn't work. The lower teeth wouldn't touch them. It sounds like right now a bite plate built into the retainer should help

 

[sksjasams]

ok, now thinking about this some more the teeth could not have been too far forward or the bite ramps wouldn't work. The lower teeth wouldn't touch them. It sounds like right now a bite plate built into the retainer should help

Thank you very much for your help!

I called our ortho office and asked if I could get a separate appt. to discuss my concerns. The receptionist said extra time is built into the final check up to discuss any concerns.

From what I have been told, my son will have a cemented wire behind the bottom teeth and an invisalign-style retainer to wear at night for the upper teeth. Is it possible for a bite plate to be added to the invisalign-style retainers? Is a retainer with a built-in bite plate standard for patients with overbites – is this something our orthodontist would/should be familiar with as an option?

Thank you again for all your help!