Any Lawyers out there? Legal Question.. Re: Homeowners Claim

[a1tinkfans]

I will try to make this as short as possible. We moved into a new house on August 21st. We agreed to buy the house the beginning of July. July 24th a major storm happened where our new house is and there was hail damage. We have had a bunch of houses in our cul de sac get new roofs within the past month because of this storm. We have had neighbors come by and tell us we should have our roof checked for damage also.

So, we had an adjuster come out and he said there is roof damage. So, we call our insurance company and we are told that the claim has to go through the previous owners insurance company. So, we call the previous owners and they are not being nice about this and refuse to do anything. They are saying they are not at fault and they are not liable. We are not saying they are at fault but we cannot process the claim. They said they called their insurance company and was told that they will not do anything and won't talk to us either. (not sure if they actually called or just saying that). Of course, they won't tell us who their insurance company is.

Not sure what our course of action is now. We can't file with our company - we don't know who their company is and they are being mean and nasty. Is this something that we need to get a lawyer involved in and are we really in the right here.

Any info would be great before we go further on this. Thanks.

You need to send a simple but factual letter to the original owner of the home and send it certified mail for a paper trail. Document EVERY call and letter. Ask them to notify the insurance carrier at once, (that insured the location at the time of the loss), while they still owned the home as there was undisclosed storm damage that occurred while they still owned the home and it needs immediate attention, requiring it to be repaired to avoid further damage.
You can indicate that their failure to notify their carrier can and may jeopardize their coverage availability for failure to notify in a timely manner. They may be held personally liable for said damages for their failure to notify as outlined in their homeowners policy.
Sadly, many people think that by ignoring things they will somehow go away. What you need to do is protect your interests at this point.
So, give them ten days (and include that in the letter) to either contact you by mail with said information or have their carrier do same so you can process a claim for damages.
You can include a line that states....your failure to respond to this request will force us to seek legal steps to protect our interests. I would cc their mortgage company that was listed on the original paperwork you received.
You should also request a denial letter from your own carrier (in writing) to present to the other carrier.
This type of claim can actually be handled rather easily if people do what they are supposed too.
It is why you take out insurance, to take the risk away from you and place it on the carrier. SO, failure to follow a policies "duties and obligations" puts them in a potentially sticky situation. The tone of the letter does not have to be attack like, just simply state basic facts and ask for their cooperation.
If you get no response, looks like you have two options: you can pay for it out of pocket
and then sue them directly, either in small claims (depending on amount) or with an attorney to represent you, ChaChing OR you can just sue them now, hiring an attorney if it is a costly repair.
Sorry to hear about your problem with the last owner. It is ILLEGAL to NOT disclose the info and the real estate agent that sold the property can also be included on your letter to last owner. Lets hope that is not the case, that they knew but "covered" it.
BEST of Luck! What a headache you did not need.................

 

[allison443]

The other problem is that insurance policies often contain a timely notice requirement-in other words they have to be notified asap of a possible claim...it's now almost three months later and if they were not notified in a timely manner, they may very well disclaim coverage. Then your remedy would still be to go after the seller, but there would be no insurance coverage available.

Did you have an attorney at closing? That person would be the best one to advise you on your particular state's laws and what your contract provides.


Please let us know what happens.

 

[allison443]

Disclosure statements and home inspections aside...those things would have been done well before storm so they are moot points.

As I said, check you contract. My current contract specifically states that in the event that something happens to the home between the time of contract and closing (ie: a hurricane or other storm) the seller has to remedy the situation. The fact of the matter is that their insurance company covered the property until the moment you closed.

I disagree that an inspection report would be moot. It would document the condition of the roof at the time the contract was entered into, and would support the buyers' claim that the roof was subsequently damaged prior to closing. (usually the inspector would take photos). As it stands now, how can the buyers prove that the roof was undamaged when they agreed to purchase it and that it was damaged in this particular storm on July 24? The sellers could say it was already in that condition. The contract provision you cite, which is a great one to have, forces the seller to remedy damage which occurs between contract and closing. The problem is that the OP didn't inspect the roof around the time of contract, and from what she says, it wasn't visible damage-they didn't know about it until the neighbors told them to have someone go up and look.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I disagree that an inspection report would be moot. It would document the condition of the roof at the time the contract was entered into, and would support the buyers' claim that the roof was subsequently damaged prior to closing. (usually the inspector would take photos). As it stands now, how can the buyers prove that the roof was undamaged when they agreed to purchase it and that it was damaged in this particular storm on July 24? The sellers could say it was already in that condition. The contract provision you cite, which is a great one to have, forces the seller to remedy damage which occurs between contract and closing. The problem is that the OP didn't inspect the roof around the time of contract, and from what she says, it wasn't visible damage-they didn't know about it until the neighbors told them to have someone go up and look.

In this case you have multiple neighbors serving as witnesses who likely had damage to their home from the same event.

Likely the hail storm matches the type of damage on the roof and a weather history of the area could isolate the hail event to the date in question.

So it would actually be rather difficult for the sellers to have their theory proven than the buyers.

I don't think it would be difficult at all to tie the damage to the specific date of the hail storm.

Of course the OP must act sooner rather than later.

And if the homeowners are lying, it really isn't the OP's issue of whether they are too late for their homeowners or not.

It really almost sounds like they played dumb so as not to miss out on a sale. Not sure about how their area is--but around here, it might be awful tempting for a seller who has had their home go unsold for a while to just not have their home checked for damage after a storm.

 

[DVC-Don]

............... The fact of the matter is that their insurance company covered the property until the moment you closed.

IF they had a homeowners policy (there are a lots of folks who do not) any checks issued for a loss during the policy period would be issued payable to the prior owners, not the present owners.

 

[Mickey Fliers]

IF they had a homeowners policy (there are a lots of folks who do not) any checks issued for a loss during the policy period would be issued payable to the prior owners, not the present owners.

You are right. However, since the house is only 10 years old, I would assume that the previous owner had a mortgage and I am sure the bank would have required a homeowner's policy. However, you know what happens when we "assume".

 

[DawnCt1]

You need to send a simple but factual letter to the original owner of the home and send it certified mail for a paper trail. Document EVERY call and letter. Ask them to notify the insurance carrier at once, (that insured the location at the time of the loss), while they still owned the home as there was undisclosed storm damage that occurred while they still owned the home and it needs immediate attention, requiring it to be repaired to avoid further damage.
You can indicate that their failure to notify their carrier can and may jeopardize their coverage availability for failure to notify in a timely manner. They may be held personally liable for said damages for their failure to notify as outlined in their homeowners policy.
Sadly, many people think that by ignoring things they will somehow go away. What you need to do is protect your interests at this point.
So, give them ten days (and include that in the letter) to either contact you by mail with said information or have their carrier do same so you can process a claim for damages.
You can include a line that states....your failure to respond to this request will force us to seek legal steps to protect our interests. I would cc their mortgage company that was listed on the original paperwork you received.
You should also request a denial letter from your own carrier (in writing) to present to the other carrier.
This type of claim can actually be handled rather easily if people do what they are supposed too.
It is why you take out insurance, to take the risk away from you and place it on the carrier. SO, failure to follow a policies "duties and obligations" puts them in a potentially sticky situation. The tone of the letter does not have to be attack like, just simply state basic facts and ask for their cooperation.
If you get no response, looks like you have two options: you can pay for it out of pocket
and then sue them directly, either in small claims (depending on amount) or with an attorney to represent you, ChaChing OR you can just sue them now, hiring an attorney if it is a costly repair.
Sorry to hear about your problem with the last owner. It is ILLEGAL to NOT disclose the info and the real estate agent that sold the property can also be included on your letter to last owner. Lets hope that is not the case, that they knew but "covered" it.
BEST of Luck! What a headache you did not need.................

BRILLIANT!

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

We didn't have an inspection as the home is only 10 year old and was kept up very well. They had all new Heating/AC installed. My brother was our realtor and did not think it was necessary as any minor thing we found my DH would be able to fix. My brother, DH and my Dad went through the house very well before we put in an offer. Even if we had had a professional inspeciton - it would have been done the 2nd week of July. The storm did not hit until July 24th.

.

True - but a good inspector would have called you after the storm and asked to re-visit the property!

 

[manning]

We didn't have an inspection as the home is only 10 year old and was kept up very well. They had all new Heating/AC installed. My brother was our realtor and did not think it was necessary as any minor thing we found my DH would be able to fix. My brother, DH and my Dad went through the house very well before we put in an offer. Even if we had had a professional inspeciton - it would have been done the 2nd week of July. The storm did not hit until July 24th.

We did have a walk through. But I guess I have never known anyone to go on the roof during a walk through.

It is just one of these unfortunate things. I wish we could just file with our insurance company - but can't blame them either, as we didn't own the house then.

Even if the house is one day old you need an inspection. Home builders have been known to cheat too.

 

[manning]

Well, he has been in the business a long time and is also a contractor and builds houses. So, he knows what to look for. If he thought it was necessary he would have had me have one. The people who bought our house had one done and honestly the stuff we had to fix was so minor and stupid. But, our house was also 40 years old.

Even if the home was inspected - it would have been done before the storm hit.

I'm will have to look through the paperwork to see if there as a disclosure agreement (I'm sure there was but not sure if that is filled out at the time we agreed to purchase or at closing...)

Go see a lawyer, you're just spinning your wheels.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

We didn't have an inspection as the home is only 10 year old and was kept up very well. They had all new Heating/AC installed. My brother was our realtor and did not think it was necessary as any minor thing we found my DH would be able to fix. My brother, DH and my Dad went through the house very well before we put in an offer. Even if we had had a professional inspeciton - it would have been done the 2nd week of July. The storm did not hit until July 24th.

We did have a walk through. But I guess I have never known anyone to go on the roof during a walk through.

It is just one of these unfortunate things. I wish we could just file with our insurance company - but can't blame them either, as we didn't own the house then.

In a normal house buying situation the owners would need to notify you as a buyer to the change in status to the property.

Then you would have ordered an inspection for the roof.

Your mistake was not getting the first inspection in which the owners were going to try and "get away" with the hail damage.

I would probably call a lawyer or do as a1tinkfans suggested.​

 

[LynnTH]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I do have a call into a Lawyer my brother has used many times - he deals in Real Estate Law. Of course, he is out of town until Monday. So, I will talk with him then and explain the situation and see what he has to say. If he thinks it is an open and shut case then we will have him draft up a letter and send to the previous homeowners. I think it would hold much more weight coming from a lawyer then from us.

Also, when I spoke to my Insurance Company. They said claims like this have up to 2 years to file a claim. They have all the dates on files on all the storms and the places that were affected. Our next door neighbors just had a new roof put on from this storm as well as 2 houses across the street.

So, now we will just wait to see what we need to do next...

 

[Luv2Roam]

Best of luck and keep us posted.
Unfortunately you learned the hard way to always have an inspection.
The house we live in now was under 2 years old and we still had one done. I would never buy a house without an inspection. And I would be extremely surprised if anyone I was selling to did not also. An inspector will look where you have not even thought of.

The fine print in house buying and selling is amazing.

Our first house, many moons ago, the owners had abandoned a year or more earlier, and the bank was foreclosing on. And they left a lot personal items behind. Which we pretty much tossed. Most of it was in the basement, literally heaped in a dark corner, was old and even molding.
Six months after the sale they contacted us and wanted their stuff back! What!?
We contacted a lawyer who told us the past owners were in their right, as when you buy a house you buy the house, not contents. However we had tossed it. (Believe me there was nothing worth keeping. Old clothes, kid's drawings and a few dishes.)
The lawyer wrote a letter to the previous owners stating they could have their items, but we were charging a daily storage fee, that was rather high. Needless to say we never heard from them again.
But I was surprised this could even be a legit claim. The owners should have paid us to go through their smelly old junk and tossing it. Then we learned we should have made a point on this at closing. But we were young, it was our first house and you have pixie dust in your eyes.

 

[dawson5]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I do have a call into a Lawyer my brother has used many times - he deals in Real Estate Law. Of course, he is out of town until Monday. So, I will talk with him then and explain the situation and see what he has to say. If he thinks it is an open and shut case then we will have him draft up a letter and send to the previous homeowners. I think it would hold much more weight coming from a lawyer then from us.

Also, when I spoke to my Insurance Company. They said claims like this have up to 2 years to file a claim. They have all the dates on files on all the storms and the places that were affected. Our next door neighbors just had a new roof put on from this storm as well as 2 houses across the street.

So, now we will just wait to see what we need to do next...

If this comes about in your favor and their insurance comes to assess the damage, make sure your roofer is there at the same time. Our area was hit last year by a nasty hail storm and pretty much the whole neighborhood has new roofs because of it. The few who had denied claims, most didn't have the roofer there. Others just got the bad investigator who said "no damage" to everyone. One lady had everyone around her with a new roof and he said "no, you only have one side of siding damaged." Check the windows, skylights and siding also. We never would have thought of that but our insurance investigator found damage on these, along with the screens. Our roofer agreed to fix each of the screens for $4, we gave him the ones that weren't damaged by the hail and had them done also, couldn't beat that price.

Also, you might want to bring up with the lawyer what another PP mentioned about the checks being in the insureds name or the bank that held the loan. This would worry me. Find out what steps need to be taken to make sure they don't figure out a way to keep the money or put a nix on who you have to fix the roof or what kind of hoops you are going to have to jump through to get this paid for. While we were in the process and waiting for the checks to be signed off on, the roofer wanted us to pay for $4,000 worth of roofing materials, which we don't have sitting around. I would assume the lawyer would know what to do but I would start writing down your questions to ask. I would think by Monday you would have a whole page full of questions & possible scenarios.

Good Luck!

 

[daughtersrus]

Be sure to have them check you central air unit if you have one. We had hail damage a few years ago and had our siding replaced as well as the roof. Our contractor was there when the inspector came and he pointed out that the folded part (I'm sorry but I don't know what they're called) part of the air conditioner had dents in it. The insurance approved having it "combed out" but a heating/air contractor.

 

[LynnTH]

Thanks guys. I will check these things out. Can't wait to see how this plays out. Thought it would just be a simple thing - but I guess not.

 

[TheBigBadWolf]

Be sure to have them check you central air unit if you have one. We had hail damage a few years ago and had our siding replaced as well as the roof. Our contractor was there when the inspector came and he pointed out that the folded part (I'm sorry but I don't know what they're called) part of the air conditioner had dents in it. The insurance approved having it "combed out" but a heating/air contractor.

I was going to say the same thing. We had damage to our central AC unit from a hail storm last spring that totaled our roof. DH borrowed an AC "comb" at work and repaired the damage. We also had major damage to our gutters. If you have any storage buildings or out buildings, you should make sure they are inspected as well. The insurance adjuster totaled our storage building even though the only actual damage was paint beat off the roof. He also gave us a generous amount for the damage done to our greenhouse.

Our state has a home seller's disclosure law. You may have a claim against your sellers for failing to disclose the problems with the home. But most seller disclosure laws require the seller to have known of the problem. If you can prove that they knew of the roof damage, you may be able to sue them and get compensated for your losses. You have a certain amount of time to sue a seller under seller disclosure laws. In some states that time limit to file a lawsuit is as little as one year after closing. Their home owner's insurance should cover your damage with no problem if you can force them to file a claim.

Good luck. I hope you can get this problem resolved. What a downer to your new home buying experience!