Any Fl. residents who watch FOX news?

[FINFAN]

My dad called and mentioned something about a report on the 3rd grade testing/requirements for kids to move up to 4th. He wasn't going to be able to see it but called me knowing I talk w/you guys and someone may see it. I know there have been a lot of changes made in the education in the state, and we are contemplating moving there and I have a 3rd grader. Anyone see the report or hear anything about it?
TIA
Pam

 

[doxdogy]

Maybe this link might help. He might be referring to the FCAT test. But, since I don't have any children in school, I am not familiar with the test.

http://www.firn.edu/doe/sas/fcat.htm

 

[FINFAN]

Thanks Doxdogy....yes, I thonk it is about the FCAT's, but it was a show specifically about the raw deal the third graders are getting...I am VERY interested in it. I tried foxnews online, but can't find anything about it.

 

[Pin Wizard]

On the radio in the car this afternoon I heard that the big stink is that some think it is discriminatory against those with special needs. They may have a point there.

 

[tnkrbell]

The big deal is if you fail the fcat you do not go on to the next grade! Even if your child does well in class normally. It is soooo stressful to these kids. Third grade is the year they can start to hold children back.

 

[Pin Wizard]

I haven't had luck with that link. I don't know about these...
http://orlando.about.com/cs/publicschools/

 

[FINFAN]

My DS is an Aug. b-day and is experiencing burn-out already in the 3rd grade...if we moved this summer I was thinking of having him repeat, but now I am wondering if I should take advantage of the fact that he would be past the stress of that being a judgement year?

 

[Pin Wizard]

It's not only 3rd graders who take it. That's just the first grade it's given to. http://www.firn.edu/doe/sas/fcat.htm

 

[FINFAN]

I know that the kids are tested every year, but I think this report was specifically about how the third grade level was being affected unfairly. That is why I am and concerned. From what I gather the parents are up in arms over the situation and it sounds very similar to what we are trying to get away from where we currently live. If anyone sees the news report please post, and thank's you guys for all your help so far!

 

[Pin Wizard]

http://www.n-jcenter.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Headlines/newsA1022703.htm

 

[Olaf]

I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this, but this sounds like a good idea to me. Our schools have been engaged in social promotion of children for years, regardless of whether or not they learned the material. I say, better they hold them back at nine than when they're older.

My guess is that the overwhelming majority of children could pass this test if the parents would turn off the flipping TV and the X-box, and put a book in front of them.

 

[PamOKW]

There are several articles on the Orlando Sentinel site (search for FCAT). Here's a link to one that talks about 3rd graders specifically. The concern is that up to 50,000 of them may not be able to pass the test to go on to 4th Grade.

FCAT and 3rd Graders

If you can tell me what area of Florida your father lives in, I could do a search on the Fox affiliate and see if the story comes up.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I HATE THE FCAT. While I support our governor on all other issues, this one I HATE, HATE, HATE. Can you tell I hate it? lol

Too much class time is devoted to learning how to take the test than the knowledge needed for the test. The reason being that school funding is based on the grade the school as a whole achieves. There is sooo much pressure on everyone, the kids, the teaches, the administrators. It's the dumbest thing ever. I'm all for not socially promoting a student to the next grade but I think the students skills show through regular testing and studies.

It's not a good thing because not all students test well on standardized testing. My DSS is a special needs student. They do make excpetions such as no time limit on the sections. Again that's not what I am concerned with. It's the class time spent on learning how to take the test. UGH I could go on but I will spare everyone.

 

[RitaZ.]

Pam, I got the below info from my DS's school's web site. They only refer to 4th, 5th & 6th grades because those are the only grades that attend this school. The same applies to 3rd graders, though. As you can see, these changes apply to ESE students as well as some ESOL students.

SBBC Policy 6000.1 has been revised. This means that there have been some significant changes to our Retention/Promotion criteria. For example, in grades 4th, 5th and 6th students will only be promoted to the next grade if they score at Level 2 or higher on FCAT-SSS Reading and Math OR at above the 25th percentile on the FCAT-NRT OR the equivalent percentile on the Stanford Diagnostic Test in Reading Comprehension for Reading OR in Mathematics problem solving for Math. This new policy applies to EVERY general education student, as well as to ESE students. ESOL students who have been in the ESOL program for more than two years must meet these promotion criteria, as well.



My older DS is in 5th grade and while his school performs well on these tests, there is a lot of time devoted to FCAT readiness. They hardly ever have recess, so much for socialization at school.

As of this year, Science will also be part of the FCAT beginning with 5th graders. The standards haven't been determined on this yet, so the results won't really count this year.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

They say that FCAT is just part of the equation on promotion. If an obviously bright child fails it for some reason(sick, numbering mistakes etc), they have been passed. My DS has done well on the FCAT. I know a 6th grader who did NOT score above the 30% in 5th grade and did not get an elective this year-had to take a remedial class. DD will not get FCAT until next year, but does great on the SAT9. My kids schools start prep about a month before the tests begin. But they don't do too much and their schools still get high scores. They have other criteria they are suppose to meet to go on, such as so many "3's" or higher on their "Writes".
I know lots of other states who have tests that must be passed to promote also. I DON'T think it should be the one and only tool that is used to determine promotion, and so far it has not been.

 

[bsnyder]

Kids have got to be prepared, not only to learn the material, but also to learn how to take standardized tests.

My daughter is in a private school, so the FCAT is not applicable for us. But they do take the ERB. I agree that not every child tests well on standardized tests. My daughter appears to be one of them. I just met with the school administrator this week, to discuss her results on the ERB she took at the end of last year (2nd grade). Her test scores did not at all reflect the grades she is getting in her classwork.

The reason for my meeting was to discuss what, if anything, we can be doing to help her take the standardized tests and perform better on them. I guess I could take the position that she's making wonderful grades, so why worry about the test scores, but I'd be ignoring the fact that these tests will be a part of her academic future.

I remember during the Presidential debates (Election 2000) CNN held one of their "townhall" meetings, to gauge voter reaction to the debate. The FCAT was brought up in interviews with the voters. One woman kept railing at the fact that they were "teaching to the test" and that her son was having to learn how to write an essay using a "template". But that's exactly the way you learn how to write a structured essay!!

 

[FINFAN]

WOW! Thank you everyone for getting those great article links to me..
PamOKW: My folks kive in Naples, but we are hopeful to move to the Sarasota area, Lakeland being our second choice, but this seems to be a statewide problem.
I wish there was an example listed of what is considered the standard for reading. My DS has been thru educational testing and scored above average in comprehension for his age, but when he took the ISAT (IL. version of the FCAT) he barely passed as he didn't finish filling out the test in the allotted time. He does not have speedy writing skills and his test score suffer for it. While I agree that no one child should fall through the cracks and advance without having earned it, our children are not machines that have been identically built to perform exactly the same. One way of testing being offered is unfair. And who sets these standards anyway? I ask that ? of all the states. I mean, if they don't pass the FCAT then the child may take the test of another state so even the standardized tests aren't "standard" across the nation? Where I live parents caught on long ago to hold their child back B4 they begin kindergarten, so now we have 6 and 7 year olds going with the 5 year olds. There is no way that they are all at the same level to follow the curriculum, and the 5 year olds are paying the price as the older ones get bored and the district increases the work level, etc. Well, It's a shame that the children are under this stress at such a young age. The Government may have to also look at the number of educationally depressed children increase with these hold backs.

 

[Olaf]

Tests, tests, tests! Folks they are a fact of life. Society has to have some way to measure knowledge. The perfect test does not exist. The more our children take them, the better test takers they will become. Teaching to the test! Yes, schools do it and your child will learn something in process--promise!

What are you going to do when your child has to take the PSAT and the SAT? What do potential lawyers who don't test well do? Pilots? Docs? Nurses? What are you going to say, "Gee, I don't test well." Next.

The Europeans have been testing their elementary school age children and tracking them (splitting them up based on the test) for years. The tests (oral and written) that they have to take to graduate high school would blow your mind. I'm betting over 50 percent of our high schoolers could not pass similiar tests. We moan and groan about the state of our schools, and then when they try enact tough policies everyone starts screaming.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

I agree, tests are a part of life! I had to pass a test to graduate High School, and that was in the 80's in Florida. Took lots more tests to get through college and certified.
My kids can use this site, but the teachers provide the password to log on. May be some info in other sections: http://www.fcatexplorer.com/

 

[ez]

My daughter is in 3rd grade, and they do spend a lot of time preparing for fcats. She told me you need to score a 50 to pass, and on the practice tests she has been getting in the 90's. My son always got, like in the 99th percentile on them. I don't get the impression that they are very hard exams, They are just covering material that a child should definitely have mastered in that grade. I 'm guessing that this is to keep kids from moving up to the next grade when they really don't know their stuff, ie. winding up in high school and hardly being able to read...we've all heard those stories. They do spend a lot of time, probably too much, prepping for them. It is my understanding that schools that do well are awarded financially. I think what is scary and stresses the kids is the idea that they could be held back if they don't pass, no matter what their class grades are. I think my daughter isn't really worried anymore since she aces the practice ones, I think shes more confident. It is hard to see a 3rd grader stress over an exam that could have such a dramatic effect on their lives, but that said, any kid truly on grade level should easily be able to pass these tests.