Anther school vent...............

[Wishing on a star]

OP:

AMEN SISTER!!!!!!

I have also worn the flame suit that you have donned...
There is NO parent-bashing, teacher engrandizing, or flames that can change the experiences that we have had..... Take what you have written, multiply that by about 10, then throw in the fact that I have had to deal with the schools regarding my vulnerable special-needs son. I hear every word in your original post, EVERY SINGLE WORD... and can support you.

Just know that I am right there with you...

In fact, I am a few steps ahead of you....
I decided a year and 1/2 ago that I was not going to let my son suffer and fall behind... I pulled him out of the public schools here....

I have never regretted it!!!
Never looked back!!!
My son (and I) will never step foot into that environment ever again.

 

[avic77]

I read you post and want to send big big big to you becuase I know where you are and how you are feeling. I have not read posts past the OP so if i repeat advice forgive me.
I know you said you dont want to HS becuase your DS loves school and his friends, but maybe you need to do so anyway. If things in PS are that bad then your being a gluten for punishment by remaining in that enviroment. Pull him out and develope a HS group in your area!

 

[richmond282]

I
My MIL is a retired public school teacher and I get tired of listening to her continued gripes about low funding, low teacher salaries (hello you DO NOT WORK FULLTIME) and all the pressure on the teachers (what job doesn't have pressure?) suck it up.

This statement, quite frankly, ticks me off. I DO work FULL TIME. Most professionals get 4-6 weeks paid vacation a year. Do you know how many teachers get? None. I guess our summer break is supposed to take the place of that, but then it's UNPAID vacation.

I spend 4 weeks every summer teaching band camp. Keep in mind these are 12 hour+ days 5 days a week not including prep time. I am required by our school system to attend 18 hours of inservice during the summer. Plus, We have 6 work days/ inservice days every summer. Add all that up and I spend 5-6 weeks of my summer "vacation" working. YES, I DO WORK FULL TIME. I haven't even listed the hours upon hours I spend at after school rehearsals, football games, band competitions, auditions, honors clinics, concerts...

To the OP, I, too, assume you are in VA, possibly SW VA? I taught for 7 years in SW VA and I worked with many, many teachers who were understanding, caring and would bend over backwards to try to accomodate their students. These teachers (myself included despite the rant above) are very concerned about a child's wellbeing and his or her education.

You have to understand that there ARE rules that have been mandated by the school system or sometimes the state that teachers are required to follow. Ex: A student mentions the word "bomb" or "gun" they are suspended. That's the zero tolerance rule. Things like Columbine and the VA Tech shooting have made that a must. Ex: AR goals must be met. Our school system uses this. I don't know much about it b/c I don't teach reading, but I know it is required and that it is dictated by higher ups.

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time with your child's school. Perhaps talk to the teachers when you aren't mad about something, just to touch base. You might get a much different reaction.

 

[KirstenB]

From the SOL comment I'm assuming you are from Virginia. So am I. I have a 3rd grader who already hates the SOL tests. I already hate the SOL tests. Do you know who hates them more? His teachers. But at the moment, that's how it works. Contact your elected representatives and encourage them to get changes made in Richmond.

AR works for most kids if they understand the goal. The main goal is not having the most points. Your child should have a goal set both for points in a grading period and a target reading level. The points are a means to an end. The goal is to raise the reading level. To guide the child to raise their reading ability. Make sure your child is using the AR system to his advantage. Have a conversation with the teacher to make sure you two are on the same page. (Our system does not factor AR points into grading)

I'm really sorry you've had such a hard time with schools. My son goes to a Title 1 school in a rural district. I can't say enough great things. When I read threads here about schools with no social studies instruction and no arts classes, it bothers me. I think in Virginia we have a great baseline for instruction. Go volunteer. Your eyes may be opened a little.

Hey Hamtown (Smithfield?) just wanted to give a shout out from another rural Title 1 elementary school in Va. We're west of Richmond. Our 5th grader has had mostly good teachers. A couple who were mediocre, but I think all of them genuinely tried, and like kids.

I view the SOL's as a necessary evil. There has to be some type of statewide standards, otherwise you get a long history of poor performance with no accountability.

Our younger dd is in special ed preschool, and my respect for our underfunded rural school system has increased 1000%. They have shown me they don't need lots of technology or the latest bells and whistles. They do so much with very simple materials.

 

[DeluxePrincess]

Good grief. If it's that bad where you live then by all means try home schooling. Why put up with it? Oh yes. Your son enjoys going to this horrible place for some reason. I guess it can't be all that bad.

 

[luvsJack]

Sometimes school rules can seem to be too strict and non-bending for kids; but most of the time if we stop and find out WHY a rule became a rule we tend to understand it more. All schools have a zero tolerance for things like mentioning guns, bombs and killing people as well as fighting and bringing weapons to school (and any number of things can be defined as a weapon; not just the items you automatically thing of) They cannot change these rules because of the circumstances of one child or one incident. It seems silly, I know; but when it saves a life or gets a child help before something bad happens then it won't seem so silly after all.

I realize the school gave him the gift but what if he had unwrapped the gift and wrapped up something else? It could actually happen.

As for the AR reading program; it works great at our school. DD has read a lot of books she may not have picked to read because of this program. She was not a big reader but this year with a lot of encouragement from her teacher and the contests they run each week (winning class gets to wear jeans on Friday) she has really taken off and now I fnd her reading all the time. But, our kids are never punished over the reading or made to read during their break time. So it can work; it just needs to be used correctly.

If you are not going to take your child out of this school, you need to have a serious sit down with his teachers and come to some type of agreement as to what is expected of your child. Showing your child your attitude about the school and his teacher is not going to help him at all.

I have some issues with teachers too; but I cannot imagine having that much of a problem with every teacher my child had! And I have to say that every teacher dd has had really has cared about whether her students learn the material or not.

If that many teachers have a bad outlook on their career; maybe they are working for a school district that treats them badly and/or they don't see anyway to improve their pay, working conditions, etc. Not all public schools are like that.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

I think for your own sanity and possible physical illnesses that can come from all this stress (either self imposed or real), you should take your child out of the public school system immediately. I can't see where you will ever be happy with it, and I am sure there are many within the system that will be better off, too.

I'm sorry, I can't just sit here and see you bash an entire profession..one that has an utterly thankless job and underpaid for it, too. I have never seen ANY teacher in our 5 years of public school with an attitude even remotely close to what you have described. Of course, I don't walk into any teacher situation with my own attitude, so ...well, anyway. The bomb thing..OK, boys say really stupid things sometimes, but the school was justified to call him out on it. They have to, the next kid could take it further..They have to see there are consequences. I hope they let him return to school with a new understanding of what is right or wrong. Schools need rules, very strict rules to protect our kids. I for one am glad that most of them are there, and I understand that I may not agree with some, but I always have to option to take them home and begin my own form of schooling. I do not feel I am as qualified as a degreed professional, so mine will stay in school.



And the comment about teaching not being a full time job...you are kidding, right? Do you have any clue as to what they do before and after they let your little precious out the door to go home? Really, I am scratching my head over this one, although I see it first hand when I go in to volunteer. Maybe it's because your MIL said it, and you have a problem with her personally. Possibly one of the most (I won't say it) statements I have ever read on these boards.



I think teachers are GREAT!!! Thank you to all the teachers out there, I DO appreciate you and all that you do, I know I couldn't do it!!

 

[a1tinkfans]

This statement, quite frankly, ticks me off. I DO work FULL TIME. Most professionals get 4-6 weeks paid vacation a year. Do you know how many teachers get? None. I guess our summer break is supposed to take the place of that, but then it's UNPAID vacation.

I spend 4 weeks every summer teaching band camp. Keep in mind these are 12 hour+ days 5 days a week not including prep time. I am required by our school system to attend 18 hours of inservice during the summer. Plus, We have 6 work days/ inservice days every summer. Add all that up and I spend 5-6 weeks of my summer "vacation" working. YES, I DO WORK FULL TIME. I haven't even listed the hours upon hours I spend at after school rehearsals, football games, band competitions, auditions, honors clinics, concerts...

To the OP, I, too, assume you are in VA, possibly SW VA? I taught for 7 years in SW VA and I worked with many, many teachers who were understanding, caring and would bend over backwards to try to accomodate their students. These teachers (myself included despite the rant above) are very concerned about a child's wellbeing and his or her education.

You have to understand that there ARE rules that have been mandated by the school system or sometimes the state that teachers are required to follow. Ex: A student mentions the word "bomb" or "gun" they are suspended. That's the zero tolerance rule. Things like Columbine and the VA Tech shooting have made that a must. Ex: AR goals must be met. Our school system uses this. I don't know much about it b/c I don't teach reading, but I know it is required and that it is dictated by higher ups.

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time with your child's school. Perhaps talk to the teachers when you aren't mad about something, just to touch base. You might get a much different reaction.

Can you clarify for me?
Are you saying that the 37 days off for Holidays (our 08-09 school cal., Not the summer off days ) are UNPAID in your state/district?
You said you do not get paid for summer off, but you're off, or are you saying you are REQUIRED to work and then NOT get paid? I am just trying to understand your post.

Honestly, there is not a single month on OUR schedule where a teacher is working the full month, I think it averages to 17 days.

I come from a FAMILY of teachers, elementary, Middle and HS, One is a college professor as well. The salaries here are not low, 2 nieces started at/ABOVE 6oK without their masters and will certainly increase ( I am talking Right out of college!)
I think teachers are absolutely VITAL and Good teachers are AMAZING, and I have seen and know plenty!!
I hope you ARE getting paid well for your very important job, but really don't understand why the comparison of vacation days when each day, each month is not worked as most outside jobs.

I think ALL jobs should be paid well, I also think that sometimes having Over qualified teachers that have advanced degrees in areas that it is not needed, ie, our GYM teachers average 85K, it really makes me wonder!
No slamming on gym teachers, really, just happen to know the stats.

Anyway, teachers are the first major link to the full educational system, making that all important impression as to "what school is like". Thank Goodness for dedicated teachers who want our kids, for the school year! My personal experiences have actually been quite good!

As far as OP, think that if I were that unhappy, I'd take the leap and make a change! Best of luck to her.

 

[RichNKatHolly]

Is he mentally unstable? I can't imagine a 4th grader saying this, as it is a very inappropriate thing to state

Teachers have to put up with this type of behavior day in and day out. Parents then defend children like this and it makes for quite a frustrating atmosphere.

God Bless all teachers

I don't have much to say about the OP's comment, but asking if a 4th grader is unstable because he most likely jokingly said "it could be a bomb" is ridiculous. This is what kids that age talk about and joke about - it's all over their TV shows and video games. Not saying the school doesn't have to act on it, just stating it's wrong to ask if he's unstable. At this age, they don't think they way we do of such statements (hey, many an adult male doesn't either ).

My DS is in 3rd and despite the fact that he's never had a video game system, never had toy guns, etc, they still shoot at each other with their fingers as a gun on the playground.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I don't have much to say about the OP's comment, but asking if a 4th grader is unstable because he most likely jokingly said "it could be a bomb" is ridiculous. This is what kids that age talk about and joke about - it's all over their TV shows and video games. Not saying the school doesn't have to act on it, just stating it's wrong to ask if he's unstable. At this age, they don't think they way we do of such statements (hey, many an adult male doesn't either ).

My DS is in 3rd and despite the fact that he's never had a video game system, never had toy guns, etc, they still shoot at each other with their fingers as a gun on the playground.

I also don't find it surprising that a 4th grader would joke around about a bomb. I agree, it is all over the TV shows, movies, and videos. I don't think a "trigger word" such as, "bomb", is explained as being a "no-go" in school. I bet none of the kids in that class will say that word again in school though, after the reaction the OP's nephew got!

Could none of the administrators understand how the word was used in jest, in context of the gift? Could none of them explain it wasn't a word to be taken lightly without using such extreme measures? There are a variety of approaches to take in different situations, I'm saddened by how this child was treated. On the flip side, there are times where the approach they took might have been appropriate. Just my .02.

Strange and bewildering.

 

[Nancyg56]

Where on earth do you live that you hate the schools that badly?
If your child is doing great and enjoys school then I don't really understand what your issues are. If you feel incompetent talking to the teacher then that is because you feel that way. Not because anyone made you feel that way. As far as volunteering in the classrooms etc. There is very limited amounts of that in most schools. It is a safety measure. I do not know you and not every parent is on the up and up. You have not been backround checked etc. Heck, you may not even be a nice person for all I know. (not saying you aren't but giving an example) There are plenty of things you can do to help your school without implementing yourself in their daily routine. It seems from your post that you want everything your way and you think that is the only right way.
As for the bomb situation. Well, there is zero tolerance now. Do I think it is overboard? Sure. Tell that to all the parents whose children have been hurt by something like that and they won't think it is overboard at all. Life is not the way it was when we were kids. Kids bring weapons to school, they try to blow things up, they are more than just mean now. Do you think you could joke about having a bomb at a local airport or any other public location nowadays? Yes, your nephew is a child, but at 4th grade level shouldn't he have a grasp on the fact that you cannot joke like that in school? It doesn't matter who gave it to him or even if they knew what the present was. The point was that he thought it was funny to say it was a bomb. How do they know that he isn't building one at home? With the internet these days kids can get a lot more information than they used to.
Do I think all teachers are awesome? No. Do I think most of them are pretty good. Absolutely. From reading your post it seems like your child is doing great and enjoys school but you don't because you had a preconceived notion that you would be at that school night and day. That has nothing to do with teachers. That has to do with you.
I wish you luck and hope that you can see that just because something isn't exactly how you pictured it doesn't mean it is not good or even great.
Good luck.

7 years and not one good teacher? 7 years of frustration and trouble? IMO, since the only common denominator for the last seven years is YOU, as the teachers have changed over the last 7 years, logic tells me that the problem may actually be you.

Adjust your expectations. Adjust your attitude. Adjust your approach. If it truly is the school/teachers who are the bane of your existence, then pull your kid. Stop with your excuses and just pull him out.

As for your nephew, I side with the school 100%. Doesn't matter where the box came form or what was in it. He was telling people that it might be a bomb, which is a threat that must be taken seriously. Sure it's a joke now, but if not nipped in the bud who knows how much further nephew would push those limits?

I agree with you, I have not seen any circumstance where a negative attitude was rewarded with a positive experience.

 

[okeydokey]

I personally know several public school teachers. They LOVE their students. The hard part of the job for them is the mandated testing , the paperwork and the parents who insist that their child should be treated differently than all the other students in the class. I have a Masters in education but gave up teaching years ago for better pay and less stress.

 

[mlynn]

I'm sorry your having such a hard time. Maybe set up an a ppointment and go in and talk with the Princilple and Teacher at the same time. But go in with a open mind. Do not going in ready to have a bad meeting. Talk to them about all your concerns and go from there.Write down everything you want to talk about.Just don't go w/this isn't going to be worthless attitude.
Not all public schools are bad. Not saying they are all good too.

My daughter6 had a horrible Kinder. Teacher. I never heard anything postive. Just neg. everything. She is at risk at every meeting. I worked really hard with her. But the teacher was NO help.Asked her for stuff to work on over the summer "I will have some stuff for you on the last day" Nope she forgot and said didn't ahve time now to worry about it.So I joined a website for help.

Skip ahead this year. My dd6 is still behind.BUT has a GREAT teacher. We talk at least 2x's a week. She gives me stargies to help me help her. She sends me home stuff I need. She gets me into workshops in our district to come up with things to help. She is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALway positive. She has given me her home # so if we have a question about homework or anything she can help.

I tell you this because same schoool 2 different teachers.

J

 

[hentob]

I don't have much to say about the OP's comment, but asking if a 4th grader is unstable because he most likely jokingly said "it could be a bomb" is ridiculous. This is what kids that age talk about and joke about -

I am going to have to disagree with you here.

Most children at this age would not respond “It could be a bomb” when given a gift in school or anywhere. Most children this age know the ramifications of talking about bombs in school

 

[hentob]

Skip ahead this year. My dd6 is still behind.BUT has a GREAT teacher. We talk at least 2x's a week. She gives me stargies to help me help her. She sends me home stuff I need. She gets me into workshops in our district to come up with things to help. She is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALway positive. She has given me her home # so if we have a question about homework or anything she can help.

Yay for awesome teachers

 

[mlynn]

Yay for awesome teachers

I love her. I"m so glad I have her in a looping class so she will have her for
2nd grade too!!!

 

[RichNKatHolly]

I am going to have to disagree with you here.

Most children at this age would not respond “It could be a bomb” when given a gift in school or anywhere. Most children this age know the ramifications of talking about bombs in school

And you are surely free too - the beauty of a discussion board . I just know from first hand experience that my 3rd grader may make the same mistake. They spoke about guns, etc in school but I don't believe it's ever been said "don't say this, don't say that." In fact, I'll probably talk to my kids about this tonight just to avoid a similar situation.

 

[luvsJack]

Can you clarify for me?
Are you saying that the 37 days off for Holidays (our 08-09 school cal., Not the summer off days ) are UNPAID in your state/district?
You said you do not get paid for summer off, but you're off, or are you saying you are REQUIRED to work and then NOT get paid? I am just trying to understand your post.

Honestly, there is not a single month on OUR schedule where a teacher is working the full month, I think it averages to 17 days.

I come from a FAMILY of teachers, elementary, Middle and HS, One is a college professor as well. The salaries here are not low, 2 nieces started at/ABOVE 6oK without their masters and will certainly increase ( I am talking Right out of college!)
I think teachers are absolutely VITAL and Good teachers are AMAZING, and I have seen and know plenty!!
I hope you ARE getting paid well for your very important job, but really don't understand why the comparison of vacation days when each day, each month is not worked as most outside jobs. .

I am not the person you were asking but just wanted to point out that every state is different and every school district is different. So everything that may be true for the teachers you know, may not be true for the teachers in another district.

Our PE teacher would faint if he suddenly started recieving 85K a year! (maybe it would make him a better PE teacher, but thats another thread).

As for summers, etc., our teachers' salaries are divided into 12 months but they are not paid more for any extra days they work during the summer for training, extra hours for tutoring students, time required at football games, PTO meetings, and other school functions. So, if you really look at all the times a teacher is requried to be at work but do not get paid; they do not get paid vacations. They are paid for working the 10 months school is in session; nothing more, nothing less.

 

[horseshowmom]

Can you clarify for me?
Are you saying that the 37 days off for Holidays (our 08-09 school cal., Not the summer off days ) are UNPAID in your state/district?

I'm not the poster, but in our state, we are not paid for ANY day that we are not in school - not holidays (Christmas, Spring Break, Thanksgiving, etc.) or anything else. We are paid for 187 days per school year - period.

You said you do not get paid for summer off, but you're off, or are you saying you are REQUIRED to work and then NOT get paid? I am just trying to understand your post.

We are required to attend a certain amount of documented professional development for which we are neither paid for our time nor reimbursed for the expenses.

Honestly, there is not a single month on OUR schedule where a teacher is working the full month, I think it averages to 17 days.

Again, we are only paid for the days we are in school.

I come from a FAMILY of teachers, elementary, Middle and HS, One is a college professor as well. The salaries here are not low, 2 nieces started at/ABOVE 6oK without their masters and will certainly increase ( I am talking Right out of college!)

I've got a Master's degree with 23 years of experience, and I'm on a 12 month contract (240 days) because I work year round, and I make $58,000 a year.

My husband teaches 4th grade, drives a school bus (for a supplement), is National Board certified (receives a supplement for that too), has a Master's degree, has 15 years of experience, and he makes less than $55,000 per year.

Our GYM teachers average 85K, it really makes me wonder!
No slamming on gym teachers, really, just happen to know the stats.

Our Supt. of Education only makes $85,000 - not another soul in the district does.


We are obviously working in the wrong state!



I've got to agree with LuvsJack too:

As for summers, etc., our teachers' salaries are divided into 12 months but they are not paid more for any extra days they work during the summer for training, extra hours for tutoring students, time required at football games, PTO meetings, and other school functions. So, if you really look at all the times a teacher is requried to be at work but do not get paid; they do not get paid vacations. They are paid for working the 10 months school is in session; nothing more, nothing less.

Also add basketball, softball, baseball, fundraisers, evening phone calls from parents and/or students, etc.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

As for summers, etc., our teachers' salaries are divided into 12 months but they are not paid more for any extra days they work during the summer for training, extra hours for tutoring students, time required at football games, PTO meetings, and other school functions. So, if you really look at all the times a teacher is requried to be at work but do not get paid; they do not get paid vacations. They are paid for working the 10 months school is in session; nothing more, nothing less.

And teachers are well aware of this when they decide to pursue this career. They are also well aware that most are underpaid and overworked. They chose to be teachers, no one is forcing them. I can't feel pity for someone who is out of work by 3-4 p.m. each day, has off numerous weeks throughout the school year and has summers off. There are many benefits they enjoy for having a career in teaching, such as being with their families more than some of us who work other full-time jobs and only get 2-4 weeks off a year, not having to worry about finding a sitter for those odd-teacher professional days peppered throughout the year, or being off one week for spring or Easter break. Guess it's all how you look at it and from which side you're looking.