Another teacher issue thread

[mominwestlake]

DS has a tough teacher for his high school honors english class this year. DS is okay with the toughness and has worked hard to achieve an A. Yesterday he came home from school and said his teacher gave everyone in the class a zero on their most recent assignment since it was obvious to the teacher that they had all plagiarized from spark notes. Each student chose a book and then had to make a book card for it. The book card included things like setting, summary, themes, symbols, etc. Students asked what if it was just a coincidence that they picked a them spark notes had included. According to DS the teacher then said after they write it they should check with spark notes and if it is there take it out of their assignment The teacher then said she expected them to come up to her an apologize but no one could come to tell her they hadn't plagiarized or she would be really mad.

DS insists he did not plagiarize and he did not use spark notes. I know he actually read the book. Yesterday he and his sister (who had read it before) were discussing the book in detail and there is no way he would have known so much if he hadn't read it. The zero brings his grade down to a B minus from a solid A since they don't have a lot of points in the class. DH and I think he should go to the teacher and tell her that he did not plagiarize. He said he can't because the teacher told them they couldn't and she'd get really mad.

DS has been working hard to get his grades up and keep them up. He does NOT want me to step into this. I know there are 2 sides to every story but DD said she also heard all the kids at school complaining about this. DS asked for his paper back today and the teacher told him she didn't know why he'd want it back. Do we just let this go even though it will really hurt his GPA? For some reason it really irks me.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

There is probably more to the story than he is willing to admit, but he seems to be willing to take the heat for it.

If he is telling you to stay out, stay out. That is - unless you just have to know the whole story - then call the teacher.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Uggh, that's terrible. I would suggest your DS write out a summary of the book in his own words with his own observations and present it to his teacher on Monday. Even if she doesn't accept the paper as the grade I can't imagine she wouldn't appreciate the effort that went into proving his innocence. If he knows as many details as you say it will shine through in his work and she will see for herself he didn't cut corners.

 

[MushyMushy]

If he wants you to stay out of it, I'd stay out of it and let him take the hit.

It's not unheard of for kids to use sparknotes for tips and it is pretty easy to spot it in their work. It's also not unheard of for teachers to be wrong about things.

But in the end it's his grade and his honor, so I'd let him handle it.

 

[PirateSnowmen]

Ugh. Been there, done that. It stinks.

I had a teacher for my Geography class Freshman year in high school who gave every student in every single one of her classes a zero on an assignment because "every single student plagiarized." She had roughly 130 students combined that she said plagiarized. Students complained, parents called and complained and she wouldn't change the grade. In the long run it didn't affect our grade too horribly (thank goodness).

I'd just have your son try to calmly and respectfully talk to the teacher. It doesn't hurt to try.

 

[LuvLDM]

If he wants you to stay out of it, I'd stay out of it and let him take the hit.

It's not unheard of for kids to use sparknotes for tips and it is pretty easy to spot it in their work. It's also not unheard of for teachers to be wrong about things.

But in the end it's his grade and his honor, so I'd let him handle it.

I think this is excellent advice.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I would abide by my son's wishes. I would encourage your son to jot down some notes about the date, what happened, what was stated. Jot down that he read the assignment and how it effects his grade. Just the facts. Have him set is aside, JIC. If your DS and his classmates (that did read the assignment) want to pursue the issue, he will have documentation.

I would be skeptical of a teacher casting such a large net. It's possible she could be right, but it doesn't seem likely that a whole class would do something like that. I would be concerned that the teacher could cast a large net again. I wouldn't trust a teacher that has shut down. She not receptive to anyone talking to her about the incident. That is not how problems are solved. Has she had issues with this class before? It sounds strange.

 

[mominwestlake]

I agree that it sounds strange. DS said it was every section of her honors class. I went and read spark notes on his book and they sound way above what he would have written. I really hope he gets the paper back so I can see if any matches up. I did read an essay he wrote on the theme of the book and it didn't sound at all like spark notes. The teacher wouldn't collect these essays because she said if they all used spark notes for the book card then they would have for they essay. At least she wasn't giving a zero but ds did the assignment and it sounded good to me. It is also strange that you can check grades online. He had a A on Monday. Now it says B minus but that 0/30 doesn't show up. The points from the assignments that do show up come out to the A. Don't you think someone's parent will call the teacher on this? DS says no because in high school they are told not to have parents call.

I taught for 7 years so I do know that what the parent hears and what actually goes on aren't usually the same thing. However, I know my son is very strong in English, reads the book, and is a good writer. I will not contact the teacher but I will go over his paper and compare to the spark notes. There had better be some plagiarism or I am going to be ticked at that teacher. Well, I don't actually want my ds to be guilty of plagiarism and lying to me but hopefully you all know what I mean. I really can't believe that ALL the students were guilty. How can she know that for a fact? I feel like calling some of the other parents that I know to see if the stories compare but I really don't want to start something.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I agree that it sounds strange. DS said it was every section of her honors class. I went and read spark notes on his book and they sound way above what he would have written. I really hope he gets the paper back so I can see if any matches up. I did read an essay he wrote on the theme of the book and it didn't sound at all like spark notes. The teacher wouldn't collect these essays because she said if they all used spark notes for the book card then they would have for they essay. At least she wasn't giving a zero but ds did the assignment and it sounded good to me. It is also strange that you can check grades online. He had a A on Monday. Now it says B minus but that 0/30 doesn't show up. The points from the assignments that do show up come out to the A. Don't you think someone's parent will call the teacher on this? DS says no because in high school they are told not to have parents call.

I taught for 7 years so I do know that what the parent hears and what actually goes on aren't usually the same thing. However, I know my son is very strong in English, reads the book, and is a good writer. I will not contact the teacher but I will go over his paper and compare to the spark notes. There had better be some plagiarism or I am going to be ticked at that teacher. Well, I don't actually want my ds to be guilty of plagiarism and lying to me but hopefully you all know what I mean. I really can't believe that ALL the students were guilty. How can she know that for a fact? I feel like calling some of the other parents that I know to see if the stories compare but I really don't want to start something.

Yeah. I find it hard to believe too. I was wondering the same thing, how can she back up that kind of claim for all of the students?

I think it's strange the teacher has completely shut down communication about the matter. That's a red flag to me. I would consider calling some of the other parents. I'd at least call one of the parents you know. I'd want to get an impression from another student and parent. You wouldn't be starting anything. That was already done.

 

[dis-happy]

Well, I wouldn't just let it go. His final grade in that honors class could very well affect his college acceptances! (especially if he is a sophomore or junior right now).

A blanket zero for everyone is ridiculous; I highly doubt that every single student would have cheated (and obviously you have evidence that your child did not do so).

I'd wait until she calms down and see what happens next week. I'd also insist that your ds' original paper be returned so you can compare it to the Sparks Notes.

 

[MonkeyDishwasher]

Perhaps he could sit with the teacher outside of class and have an extended conversation with her about the book? If he shared his knowledge about the book from what he read, that may clue her into the fact that he actually did the assignment. It's not a student's job to cross check that nobody else has ever read a book and had similar information available in regards to it.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

As I see it, the kids could have read the book but gotten lazy and plagiarized instead of doing the writing themselves. So, the fact that some of the kids read the book does not mean that they are not guilty as charged. Plagiarism runs pretty rampant through schools at all levels today. She was probably looking for, and found, a pretty telling phrase or sentence from the SparkNotes summary.

 

[OceanAnnie]

DS has a tough teacher for his high school honors english class this year. DS is okay with the toughness and has worked hard to achieve an A. Yesterday he came home from school and said his teacher gave everyone in the class a zero on their most recent assignment since it was obvious to the teacher that they had all plagiarized from spark notes. Each student chose a book and then had to make a book card for it. The book card included things like setting, summary, themes, symbols, etc. Students asked what if it was just a coincidence that they picked a them spark notes had included. According to DS the teacher then said after they write it they should check with spark notes and if it is there take it out of their assignment The teacher then said she expected them to come up to her an apologize but no one could come to tell her they hadn't plagiarized or she would be really mad.

DS insists he did not plagiarize and he did not use spark notes. I know he actually read the book. Yesterday he and his sister (who had read it before) were discussing the book in detail and there is no way he would have known so much if he hadn't read it. The zero brings his grade down to a B minus from a solid A since they don't have a lot of points in the class. DH and I think he should go to the teacher and tell her that he did not plagiarize. He said he can't because the teacher told them they couldn't and she'd get really mad.

DS has been working hard to get his grades up and keep them up. He does NOT want me to step into this. I know there are 2 sides to every story but DD said she also heard all the kids at school complaining about this. DS asked for his paper back today and the teacher told him she didn't know why he'd want it back. Do we just let this go even though it will really hurt his GPA? For some reason it really irks me.

The bolded is not acceptable. I have never heard of a teacher directing students in such a way. To me, she admitted it's possible there could be some coincidences by stating the students should cross check after they have written an essay. That's just wrong! I suspect she knows how wrong it is, because she isn't going to talk about it. It probably makes her mad to know that some could have plagiarized and she can't tell who it could be. So all must take the blame.

And to tell them to come apologize for something in which defense is forbidden is also wrong.

I would be mad about it. It is good for kids to resolve their issues. But when the authority figure they are dealing with prevents it, that is another ball game. I'd find a way to help my child open the door to resolve this, either with the teacher or if she continues to be unwilling maybe suggest the class take it up with administration.

 

[My sister's princess]

lol won't embarrass myself

 

[mominwestlake]

As I see it, the kids could have read the book but gotten lazy and plagiarized instead of doing the writing themselves. So, the fact that some of the kids read the book does not mean that they are not guilty as charged. Plagiarism runs pretty rampant through schools at all levels today. She was probably looking for, and found, a pretty telling phrase or sentence from the SparkNotes summary.

DS did bring up that the teacher said some kids probably did read the book but pagiarized the writing portion. DS said she gave a figure like 80% but close to 100% got a zero. The teacher told the class that a few didn't get zero because they did such a bad job it was clear they didn't use spark notes.

Whatever these book cards are it is something to do with AP english I think. I know these are the kids who will be taking AP english next year as seniors.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

DS did bring up that the teacher said some kids probably did read the book but pagiarized the writing portion. DS said she gave a figure like 80% but close to 100% got a zero. The teacher told the class that a few didn't get zero because they did such a bad job it was clear they didn't use spark notes.

Whatever these book cards are it is something to do with AP english I think. I know these are the kids who will be taking AP english next year as seniors.

Well, if everyone did not get a zero, then that tells us that she didn't just hand out zeros. That also tells me that, if your son doesn't want you interfering, he was probably guilty. Otherwise, why bother telling you? For sympathy, or to "explain" the grade?

 

[OceanAnnie]

DS has a tough teacher for his high school honors english class this year. DS is okay with the toughness and has worked hard to achieve an A. Yesterday he came home from school and said his teacher gave everyone in the class a zero on their most recent assignment since it was obvious to the teacher that they had all plagiarized from spark notes. Each student chose a book and then had to make a book card for it. The book card included things like setting, summary, themes, symbols, etc. Students asked what if it was just a coincidence that they picked a them spark notes had included. According to DS the teacher then said after they write it they should check with spark notes and if it is there take it out of their assignment The teacher then said she expected them to come up to her an apologize but no one could come to tell her they hadn't plagiarized or she would be really mad.

DS insists he did not plagiarize and he did not use spark notes. I know he actually read the book. Yesterday he and his sister (who had read it before) were discussing the book in detail and there is no way he would have known so much if he hadn't read it. The zero brings his grade down to a B minus from a solid A since they don't have a lot of points in the class. DH and I think he should go to the teacher and tell her that he did not plagiarize. He said he can't because the teacher told them they couldn't and she'd get really mad.

DS has been working hard to get his grades up and keep them up. He does NOT want me to step into this. I know there are 2 sides to every story but DD said she also heard all the kids at school complaining about this. DS asked for his paper back today and the teacher told him she didn't know why he'd want it back. Do we just let this go even though it will really hurt his GPA? For some reason it really irks me.

I thought it was everyone?

 

[pigletliz]

My daughter's high school submitted all essays and research papers through one of those programs that identified certain phrases. The program flagged any papers that were potentially plagiarized. Is it possible the teacher uses that type of program? I can't remember what it was called, but all the students knew it was school policy.

 

[mominwestlake]

Sorry, 3 students out of 5 sections of 25 to 30 students in each section. I will let it go though because people are probably right that ds is guilty in some way otherwise he'd want to stick up for himself or have me get involved.

 

[mominwestlake]

My daughter's high school submitted all essays and research papers through one of those programs that identified certain phrases. The program flagged any papers that were potentially plagarized. Is it possible the teacher uses that type of program? I can't remember what it was called, but all the students knew it was school policy.

I am not sure if his high school has that. These were in a weird format too that ds keeps calling a readingcard. On the card you fill in setting, point of view, quotes, themes, symbols, plot summary, etc. I have another one he did and checked it against spark notes. There was nothing plagiarized in it. The way spark notes are written wouldn't be the way the typical 16 year old would write anyway.

Well, ds should be home from track soon. I have got to just let this go since I seem to be more upset than he is.