Another school program I don't know how I feel about.

[mickeyboat]

There is a behavior program at DDs' school where kids who have some trouble controlling their behavior go to a separate classroom for certain times of the day (morning, lunch time, etc.). Sometimes they get to bring a friend from class with them at lunch time. Last time DD was invited there was a dog visiting the classroom and they made chocolate shakes for everyone.

What's up with that? It seems to me that this is a poor way to modify kids' behavior because they are being rewarded for it.

 

[Gammaresource]

There is a behavior program at DDs' school where kids who have some trouble controlling their behavior go to a separate classroom for certain times of the day (morning, lunch time, etc.). Sometimes they get to bring a friend from class with them at lunch time. Last time DD was invited there was a dog visiting the classroom and they made chocolate shakes for everyone.

What's up with that? It seems to me that this is a poor way to modify kids' behavior because they are being rewarded for it.

Maybe the dog was a therapy dog. And perhaps the shakes were the reward for a behavioral contract. Or not.

 

[mamacatnv]

Those "losers" don't usually start with an even playing field to begin with so let's talk about "fair."

And the fact that your son has student loans is related in what way? Who else should be paying for his education?

So what exactly is a level playing field?

The loans are an example of the inequity our kids face. He has loans because he is not at the bottom of the economic pool and does not qualify for a handout. He will walk away from college with debt and the kid next to him who has a hard luck story may not. Why does one have to pay for his education when someone else doesn't at the same school? I'm not talking about merit based aide, I'm talking about grants and such that are purely based on economics and usually the economics of the parents.

 

[mickeyboat]

Maybe the dog was a therapy dog. And perhaps the shakes were the reward for a behavioral contract. Or not.

It's possible, but I seriously doubt it was a therapy dog. You might be right about the behavioral contract, though. The atmosphere seems more like a fun club than anything else, though.

 

[luvmy3]

There is a behavior program at DDs' school where kids who have some trouble controlling their behavior go to a separate classroom for certain times of the day (morning, lunch time, etc.). Sometimes they get to bring a friend from class with them at lunch time. Last time DD was invited there was a dog visiting the classroom and they made chocolate shakes for everyone.

What's up with that? It seems to me that this is a poor way to modify kids' behavior because they are being rewarded for it.

My ds has a boy in his class that has issues, its an inclusion class. When he has his outbursts to calm him down the whole class has to sing to him or they all stop working and put on a movie
These kids get enough special perks at the expense of the other students without anything being done to change their behavior, its just accepted and expected that everyone else accept it. I don't see how an afterschool program like in the OP's district does anything for those students. Its like telling them *its okay if you act up, distract others and not get your work done, you'll have all the special programs you need to help you get through it. Well hello, what about the rest of those kids sitting there whose lessons were interupted to tend to him
Same for the kids who have attendance issues, how does an afterschool program fix that problem? Aren't there truancy laws, how about getting the authorities involved to force the kids to be at school. Of course that woudln't be nice or fair. We'll just offer them an afterschool program to help
I have no problems with kids that have academic issues getting the help they need, but I can't stand when those kids with behavioral problems get all the extras, but no actual discipline and expectations because they are *special* and we don't want to single them out and make them feel like school isn't fair to them.

OKay rant over

 

[Where'sPiglet?]

Somebody shared a quote with us once. I am sorry I do not have the source.

"If all children had a safe harbor, then none would be at risk."

It sounds like the After School program the OP is referring to will provide that kind of environment for the children who most need it.

 

[luvmy3]

Somebody shared a quote with us once. I am sorry I do not have the source.

"If all children had a safe harbor, then none would be at risk."

It sounds like the After School program the OP is referring to will provide that kind of environment for the children who most need it.

Can you explain to me how school itself duringthe hours of 8 to 4 isn't already a safe harbor for those kids? Whats next having sleepovers at the tax payers expense?

 

[disneyjunkie]

That to me as a parent is frustrating. My son has student loans because he is not poor or at risk or special needs or a minority or the child of someone who is poor or at risk....he is the child of middle class working parents whose college fund got slammed like everyone elses.

Who told you minorities get a “go to college free card”?

I didn't get one (I'm still paying back my student loans) and my son won't get on when he starts college next fall.

 

[disneyjunkie]

So what exactly is a level playing field?

The loans are an example of the inequity our kids face. He has loans because he is not at the bottom of the economic pool and does not qualify for a handout. He will walk away from college with debt and the kid next to him who has a hard luck story may not. Why does one have to pay for his education when someone else doesn't at the same school? I'm not talking about merit based aide, I'm talking about grants and such that are purely based on economics and usually the economics of the parents.

Your son is pretty darn lucky he didn't grow up the way the other kid did.

 

[Footnotegirl]

I come speaking from the experience of being one of the other 'villages' that a poster mentioned higher up, vis a vis being a public librarian in a high-youth, low-income area. A few things I'd like to say after reading this thread.

1) The OP does not actually give (and looks like was not given) a complete description of what this program entails. Making assumptions from the list of requests is merely that, making assumptions. Perhaps the board games are going to be used as rewards. Or perhaps used to help gain trust or teach lessons on fair play or strategy. We don't know, so claiming that these requests are evidence that the kids will be sitting around playing fun games is really making a leap. Likewise for making assumptions based for a half hour of one day during a lunch time experience made by a teenager.

2) Saying since it doesn't help your kids directly it is not a direct help to you so why should you get yourself involved with it is such a myopic, strange view of the world. Children who stay in school longer and more successfully mean adults who are less likely to commit crimes, live under the poverty line, or be incarcerated, all of which do, in fact, benefit each of us directly. The world is not all straight lines or tidy little cubicles, it's a web. You may not see the other side of the web, but when a string gets pulled, you will probably end up with the vibrations.

3) The single most telling factor of a child's success is not anything the school does, or the community does, or anything else. It is the parents involvement. Problem is, no matter how much you as a parent are involved, that does not mean that all parents are involved. And there is no way to force parents who are uninterested or unable to be involved. All you can do in those situations is try to find some way, minimally effectual though it may be, to replace that all important involvement with some sort of substitute where the child will get expectations, involvement, support, and safety. Without these things, the chances of even a driven child or teen to be able to be successful becomes very very low.

4) In our community, there is nothing for teenagers to do. The community center even closes its doors to teens that are there without parents. Which means that they flood our library. Most of them are great and we adore these kids. Some of them are problematic because they frankly do not want to be there, but its the only place to go (for a number of reasons including 'locked out because parents are at work', 'parents can't be home so they'll watch you at the library, free babysitting (hah!)" and 'my dad is drunk and if I get in his hair he'll beat me' as well as plain old teenagers not wanting to be in the house all day, shocking, I know). Sometimes, even the great kids act up (don't say you didn't when you were a teenager, I will stare at you squintily) and we have to kick them out. Frankly, we cannot provide all that they need, because what they need is attention, goals, activity and support. If parents can't/won't provide them, someone has to. It sounds like that is what this program is attempting to do.

5) Yes, there are a lot of bad/ineffectual programs out there. But just because some don't work or waste money doesn't ipso facto mean all of them won't work and will waste money. What needs to happen is that there be an understanding of the goals and a metric to measure them. Better oversight, better auditing, and better metrics are what is needed, not just to throw up one's hands and say that it's all doomed to failure from the start. But seriously, if a hundred kids enter a program and even five of them have their lives changed for the better... how is that worthless?

6) To pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you actually have to have boots. Every parent out there who has the ability to care for their kid should thank their lucky stars that they do, and not bitterly deny a child a chance that they otherwise would never get because it is somehow 'unfair' that that child gets anything because they are neglected, abused, troubled, or disabled. Your child has a good support system, loving parents who work hard and sacrifice for them, and a bright future even without any help from the schools or other outside agencies. Don't spit on a kid who doesn't have those things and did not choose not to have those things.

 

[Where'sPiglet?]

Criteria to qualify to be in The Edge include:

The student has been retained in their school career.
The student failed two or more core classes in the previous school year.
The student has attendance issues that have significant impact on the student's success.
The student has behavior problems and referral issues.

It's not JUST behavior issues....

Can you explain to me how school itself duringthe hours of 8 to 4 isn't already a safe harbor for those kids? Whats next having sleepovers at the tax payers expense?

The OP does not say how this is funded. It appears they have only two people hired for this, and they already work for the district. They were asking for volunteers.

Interacting in a classroom environment is different than a social one.

As a taxpayer, I'd rather pay for prevention/intervention programs than prison and welfare systems.

Additionally, most school funding is earmarked for certain types of populations, often due to laws and mandates.

As for sleepovers, many schools DO have sleepovers, so yes, your tax dollars may indirectly be paying for those. The ones I have seen are for educational programs in rural/mountain areas.

 

[MrsPete]

I understand where you're coming from: These kids have not done the right things, and the consequence is that they get to play Wii, learn to scrapbook, take karate, and more! But the issue is difficult. Essentially there are two sides to the argument:

1. Let these kids take their lumps. They haven't worked hard in school, and they don't deserve these nice rewards. Their parents should be looking after them better. School has limited resources, and these rewards should go to the children who are proving themselves capable. By rewarding the best and the brightest, we'll encourage other kids to step up to the plate and work harder.

2. These kids aren't going to suddenly "make it" in school -- they come from families who aren't providing the enrichment activities that kids should have, and the lack is showing in their schoolwork. By providing them with positive experiences at school, we can raise their confidence and comfort level, and they'll begin to perform better at school -- and in life. Programs like this at the elementary level can stave off the choice to drop out of school later.

Which side's right? Some of each. Some of those kids WILL respond positively to the extra attention and help, and they'll improve their lives because of it. We as a society will be better off because those kids will do better in school and will be better prepared for life. On the other hand, a whole bunch of the kids will just show up for the fun stuff (and the free after school care), and their classroom grades will remain unchanged.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Saying since it doesn't help your kids directly it is not a direct help to you so why should you get yourself involved with it is such a myopic, strange view of the world.

Yep, you just used the perfect word...
MYOPIC.
I can hardly believe this thread.
How can anybody justify the whole "If it doesn't benefit ME directly, it shouldn't exist... It might possibly be taking something away from ME... ME... ME.... " ME.....

How very sad.
As the mother of a learning disabled child, it is both saddening and angering to hear others who just think that any accommodation or benefit offered to keep my kid afloat is 'wasted on a loser'. And, much of this thread are just more of the same.

Who here thinks that any 'successful' and 'not-at-risk' child who has afterschool activities and sports and a parent at home, friends to play with... or even just the chance to get away from school grounds when the bell rings and chill/decompress, even if it is just playing video games, etc... would actually chose to foresake these things to stay at school in a program like this, under the thumb of school administrators???? I mean, no matter how positive of a spin they try to put on it, it sounds like glorified afternoon detention.

My guess to that question would be..... NOT MANY.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I understand where you're coming from: These kids have not done the right things, and the consequence is that they get to play Wii, learn to scrapbook, take karate, and more! But the issue is difficult. Essentially there are two sides to the argument:

1. Let these kids take their lumps. They haven't worked hard in school, and they don't deserve these nice rewards. Their parents should be looking after them better. School has limited resources, and these rewards should go to the children who are proving themselves capable. By rewarding the best and the brightest, we'll encourage other kids to step up to the plate and work harder.

2. These kids aren't going to suddenly "make it" in school -- they come from families who aren't providing the enrichment activities that kids should have, and the lack is showing in their schoolwork. By providing them with positive experiences at school, we can raise their confidence and comfort level, and they'll begin to perform better at school -- and in life. Programs like this at the elementary level can stave off the choice to drop out of school later.

Which side's right? Some of each. Some of those kids WILL respond positively to the extra attention and help, and they'll improve their lives because of it. We as a society will be better off because those kids will do better in school and will be better prepared for life. On the other hand, a whole bunch of the kids will just show up for the fun stuff (and the free after school care), and their classroom grades will remain unchanged.

Wow.... just WOW... (bolding above is mine)

 

[allison443]

That to me as a parent is frustrating. My son has student loans because he is not poor or at risk or special needs or a minority or the child of someone who is poor or at risk....he is the child of middle class working parents whose college fund got slammed like everyone elses.

Need based financial aid for college is based on financial need, not race. Don't you think "minorities" have to take out student loans Well, they often do. Being a "minority" in and of itself doesn't give you a free ride to college. Additionally, financial aid at most schools normally includes loans and work study, not just "free money" such as grants. So people who do receive financial aid are in many cases taking out loans just like your son.

 

[DeluxePrincess]

Don't worry. The "good" kids will soon be invited into this program because sadly, most of the parents of the kids who actually need the help won't enroll them.

 

[LisaNJ25]

After reading some of these comments I wonder what some would say if the money was spent on the "Gifted & Talented"

 

[mamacatnv]

I know better, I really do, sometimes I just can't help myself and I am never disappointed.

 

[portocall]

I come speaking from the experience of being one of the other 'villages' that a poster mentioned higher up, vis a vis being a public librarian in a high-youth, low-income area. A few things I'd like to say after reading this thread.

1) The OP does not actually give (and looks like was not given) a complete description of what this program entails. Making assumptions from the list of requests is merely that, making assumptions. Perhaps the board games are going to be used as rewards. Or perhaps used to help gain trust or teach lessons on fair play or strategy. We don't know, so claiming that these requests are evidence that the kids will be sitting around playing fun games is really making a leap. Likewise for making assumptions based for a half hour of one day during a lunch time experience made by a teenager.

2) Saying since it doesn't help your kids directly it is not a direct help to you so why should you get yourself involved with it is such a myopic, strange view of the world. Children who stay in school longer and more successfully mean adults who are less likely to commit crimes, live under the poverty line, or be incarcerated, all of which do, in fact, benefit each of us directly. The world is not all straight lines or tidy little cubicles, it's a web. You may not see the other side of the web, but when a string gets pulled, you will probably end up with the vibrations.

3) The single most telling factor of a child's success is not anything the school does, or the community does, or anything else. It is the parents involvement. Problem is, no matter how much you as a parent are involved, that does not mean that all parents are involved. And there is no way to force parents who are uninterested or unable to be involved. All you can do in those situations is try to find some way, minimally effectual though it may be, to replace that all important involvement with some sort of substitute where the child will get expectations, involvement, support, and safety. Without these things, the chances of even a driven child or teen to be able to be successful becomes very very low.

4) In our community, there is nothing for teenagers to do. The community center even closes its doors to teens that are there without parents. Which means that they flood our library. Most of them are great and we adore these kids. Some of them are problematic because they frankly do not want to be there, but its the only place to go (for a number of reasons including 'locked out because parents are at work', 'parents can't be home so they'll watch you at the library, free babysitting (hah!)" and 'my dad is drunk and if I get in his hair he'll beat me' as well as plain old teenagers not wanting to be in the house all day, shocking, I know). Sometimes, even the great kids act up (don't say you didn't when you were a teenager, I will stare at you squintily) and we have to kick them out. Frankly, we cannot provide all that they need, because what they need is attention, goals, activity and support. If parents can't/won't provide them, someone has to. It sounds like that is what this program is attempting to do.

5) Yes, there are a lot of bad/ineffectual programs out there. But just because some don't work or waste money doesn't ipso facto mean all of them won't work and will waste money. What needs to happen is that there be an understanding of the goals and a metric to measure them. Better oversight, better auditing, and better metrics are what is needed, not just to throw up one's hands and say that it's all doomed to failure from the start. But seriously, if a hundred kids enter a program and even five of them have their lives changed for the better... how is that worthless?

6) To pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you actually have to have boots. Every parent out there who has the ability to care for their kid should thank their lucky stars that they do, and not bitterly deny a child a chance that they otherwise would never get because it is somehow 'unfair' that that child gets anything because they are neglected, abused, troubled, or disabled. Your child has a good support system, loving parents who work hard and sacrifice for them, and a bright future even without any help from the schools or other outside agencies. Don't spit on a kid who doesn't have those things and did not choose not to have those things.

Very well said

 

[mamacatnv]

Need based financial aid for college is based on financial need, not race. Don't you think "minorities" have to take out student loans Well, they often do. Being a "minority" in and of itself doesn't give you a free ride to college. Additionally, financial aid at most schools normally includes loans and work study, not just "free money" such as grants. So people who do receive financial aid are in many cases taking out loans just like your son.

My misuse of the word, I did not mean minority in and of itself. I am well aware that being a minority does not mean a free ride, however in some cases it can help.