Another Removal At WDW

[WEDWDW]

Wow,interesting times at WDW-wonder what could be next?

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83953933/

 

[CandleontheWater]

At least this time its not an attraction or entertainment offering!

 

[kiltclan]

I'm actually excited to learn, not that they're removing the flag, but that Disney was in fact using the Historical version of the Confederate flag known as the "blood stained banner" as opposed to the current incarnation of the flag which actually didn't exist in the civil war era. (Which as a history buff has been my biggest issue with all this hype)

As for the actual removal of it, that's the debate for others, but I will point out that in Germany, a certain well-known, historically accurate flag is forbidden from being displayed outside of museums.

 

[jec6613]

I think it could be argued that the display location was reasonably appropriate, but Disney doesn't want any part of a lot of things. I suspect it will be replaced or possibly, though unlikely, returned once things have died down, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I'm actually excited to learn, not that they're removing the flag, but that Disney was in fact using the Historical version of the Confederate flag known as the "blood stained banner" as opposed to the current incarnation of the flag which actually didn't exist in the civil war era. (Which as a history buff has been my biggest issue with all this hype)

As for the actual removal of it, that's the debate for others, but I will point out that in Germany, a certain well-known, historically accurate flag is forbidden from being displayed outside of museums.

As I remember my history the *stars and Bars*, as you pointed out, was never the flag of the confederacy, but was the Battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. General Lees own, and was flown in many battles especially Gettysburg.

AKK

 

[kiltclan]

As I remember my history the *stars and Bars*, as you pointed out, was never the flag of the confederacy, but was the Battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. General Lees own, and was flown in many battles especially Gettysburg.

AKK

Its actually a very similar design. The "stars and Bars" is also an inaccurate term for this flag as the "star and bars" was actually the first confederate flag that was flown and quickly changed up because of the similarity of the flag to that of the enemy's colors, thus creating confusion in battle. The one everyone sees these days, is similar to the "battle flag" but also very different as it was intended to be only a square piece of cloth hung under the current confederate flag.
The current incarnation of the flag we know now was actually created during the 20th century by combining the 'battle flag" and the confederacy's 2nd naval jack that was rectangular and the colors differed.

 

[jec6613]

The, "Stars and Bars," is actually the first flag of the confederacy. The problem with it was, that on a smoke filled battlefield, you couldn't tell it from the US flag, especially in early battles where they were both in blue uniforms in many cases. The Battle Flag is distinct from the, "Stars and Bars."

You can see it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

 

[DisneyFive]

Interesting. Never gave it any thought one way or the other when at Epcot.

Dan

 

[Jess_S]

This quote in the article bothered me: "I think in this day and age we shouldn't be promoting a part of our history we're not proud of," she said. I'm going to give the woman they interviewed the benefit of the doubt and assume it was in-artfully worded. But it sounds awfully close to saying, "I support the decision to remove the flag because then I can pretend this distasteful episode in our history never happened." I support Disney's right to make a call about whether a particular exhibit is appropriate -- especially since they are running a family amusement park and not a history museum. But I hope we don't get to a point where we are denying history and pretending that somehow makes us PC.

 

[WEDWDW]

Isn't that Flag part of the "2 brothers" scene also?

 

[BrianL]

I get why Disney would do this, but, really, in the context of The American Adventure pavilion, it was wholly appropriate. The show depicts scenes from the Civil War (Two Brothers sequence, which is brilliant and heart-wrenching!). I don't think they were using it in any way to glorify it, but it is a part of history. Of course, the uneducated masses who follow the media narrative don't understand it at all, and I'm sure they don't want complaints. I am not a fan of the flag or the Confederacy myself (even as a Southerner), but striking it from every instance of public display (this was even the "correct" flag) is a myopic move that does not solve any of the real problems we face in this country.

 

[cincystamper]

This quote in the article bothered me: "I think in this day and age we shouldn't be promoting a part of our history we're not proud of," she said. I'm going to give the woman they interviewed the benefit of the doubt and assume it was in-artfully worded. But it sounds awfully close to saying, "I support the decision to remove the flag because then I can pretend this distasteful episode in our history never happened." I support Disney's right to make a call about whether a particular exhibit is appropriate -- especially since they are running a family amusement park and not a history museum. But I hope we don't get to a point where we are denying history and pretending that somehow makes us PC.

Thank goodness I'm not the only one who thought that when reading that quote....

 

[delyrium]

I think the removal from a historical attraction is kind of silly, and I'm one that thinks the flag should be banned from government property, aside from museums. But, if it's upsetting to a certain portion of Disney's customers, I don't see a huge problem with its removal. They're not a company that likes to be part of anything controversial.

 

[kiltclan]

This quote in the article bothered me: "I think in this day and age we shouldn't be promoting a part of our history we're not proud of," she said. I'm going to give the woman they interviewed the benefit of the doubt and assume it was in-artfully worded. But it sounds awfully close to saying, "I support the decision to remove the flag because then I can pretend this distasteful episode in our history never happened." I support Disney's right to make a call about whether a particular exhibit is appropriate -- especially since they are running a family amusement park and not a history museum. But I hope we don't get to a point where we are denying history and pretending that somehow makes us PC.

I don't so much think of it as trying to 'deny history' considering they never stated they were removing the "two brothers" section of the show.

I get why Disney would do this, but, really, in the context of The American Adventure pavilion, it was wholly appropriate. The show depicts scenes from the Civil War (Two Brothers sequence, which is brilliant and heart-wrenching!). I don't think they were using it in any way to glorify it, but it is a part of history. OF course, the uneducated masses who follow the media narrative don't understand it at all, and I'm sure they don't want complaints. I am not a fan of the flag or the Confederacy myself (even as a Southerner), but striking it from every instance of public display (this was even the "correct" flag) is a myopic move that does not solve any of the real problems we face in this country.

I stated earlier, in Germany, the Nazi flag is forbidden to be publicly displayed outside of museums and thats ONLY because they acknowledge that it's apart of history that cannot by denied, otherwise, the Nazi flag would be banned within Germany, period (and that flag is actually historically accurate unlike most of the confederate flags being removed, Disney's excluded)

 

[Fantabulously Cherry]

I honestly never realized it was there. I'm a history buff as well.

 

[RustManFan]

Removing symbols of our history does not change history and efforts to pretend things didn't happen is a waste of time. We do not celebrate evil in our past but must acknowledge it..... just my opinion

 

[Gillyrose779]

Since we have history buffs here and everyone is being very civil about this (which I thank) I have a question. It is my understanding this flag, or at least a version of it, was used during Civil War by the Confederates. The Confederates were trying to break away from the United States and become their own country. So isn't this flag not a United States flag but a flag of a separate union who wished to become a country but did not b/c of the loss of the war?

I feel like this flag is a part of our history b/c it was Americans who created and used it but I don't think of it as an American flag. I don't get the Southern pride thing with the flag also since it's history is a flag of treason towards the United States.

Thoughts?

 

[BrianL]

I stated earlier, in Germany, the Nazi flag is forbidden to be publicly displayed outside of museums and thats ONLY because they acknowledge that it's apart of history that cannot by denied, otherwise, the Nazi flag would be banned within Germany, period (and that flag is actually historically accurate unlike most of the confederate flags being removed, Disney's excluded)

I am 100% against any such ban of any flag. The US is not Germany, and here the display of a flag is protected. I do agree that state governments should not fly it, but to ban private citizens from displaying it would go way too far and should never be considered.

 

[Sargeant Tibbs]

A constitutional right is violated, pure and simple. The confederate flag may not be to my taste, but it is a constitutional right to fly it. I prefer that the freedom remains for things I don't approve of because it also gives me the right to express myself. One day we Americans will wake up to discover that we've let all our constitutional rights...all that makes us American...slip away, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. The removal of the flag will not change the way certain people think. I'm not trying to rile anyone up, but sometimes I think we Americans take for granted what a precious gift our constitution is. Our forefathers and foremothers bled for those rights.

But, as has been mentioned, Disney steers clear of controversy. My sister, who is a U.S. history teacher, and I were just joking that the confederate flag would have to be removed from that exhibit.

 

[Gillyrose779]

A constitutional right is violated, pure and simple. The confederate flag may not be to my taste, but it is a constitutional right to fly it. I prefer that the freedom remains for things I don't approve of because it also gives me the right to express myself. One day we Americans will wake up to discover that we've let all our constitutional rights...all that makes us American...slip away, and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. The removal of the flag will not change the way certain people think. I'm not trying to rile anyone up, but sometimes I think we Americans take for granted what a precious gift our constitution is. Our forefathers and foremothers bled for those rights.

But, as has been mentioned, Disney steers clear of controversy. My sister, who is a U.S. history teacher, and I were just joking that the confederate flag would have to be removed from that exhibit.

Maybe I am missing something but what constitutional right is violated? Businesses are choosing not to sell and/or display. Citizens can do whatever they want with it... even fly it high at their home-- correct?

It's like our right to free speech. We can say what we want but try to drop the F-Bomb at work and you will likely get fired. Just b/c you could get fired doesn't mean your rights are violated.