Another "Driving" Thread (inspired by Papa Deuce)

[Christine]

This one has had me thinking for awhile now. I hope I can explain it.

We have several very large intersections in my town and all are heavily used (busy). There are two intersections now that have this going on.

Imagine an intersection that has traffic coming from all directions with a stoplight to regulate each. You come to your light and get in the left hand turn lane because you want to make a U-Turn. The sign up above you says: U-Turns must yield to traffic making a right hand turn." Now this "traffic making a right hand turn" is off to your left and they are "right turning on red." Now this "rule" infuriates me. It seems to me that the U-Turn traffic should ALWAYS have the right-of-way. You only get one shot (light cycle) to make that U-Turn and there are people behind you wanting to make a left turn. But they can't because you are too busy sitting in the middle of the intersection yielding to all that "right turn on red" traffic. Then the whole left turn lane backs up and no one gets through.

To me, right turn on red means you stop, you look at traffic coming from ALL directions and if no one is coming into the intersection, THEN you can go. This should include those making U-Turns on a green light (they are easy enough to see).

I just don't get the rationale that a right turn on red trumps a U-Turn on green.

I've been thinking of writing the Department of Transportation on this but I'm wondering if my logic is just messed up?

 

[stinkerbelle]

doesn't make sense to me...is there not enough room to safely make a u-turn if someone is turning right on red at the same time?

 

[Christine]

doesn't make sense to me...is there not enough room to safely make a u-turn if someone is turning right on red at the same time?

Usually there is not enough room. Unless you have a very good turning radius, the u-turning car most always enters into the right lane.

 

[hiwaygal]

You are assuming the right turn actually has to stop...are you sure the right turn isn't what is known as a "free flow" right?

Many busy intersections are now designed with a free-flow right...and they actually don't have to stop. This keeps traffic moving quite efficiently.

Also, in many areas, U-turns are illegal. And they are rarely (if ever) given the right of way when they are legal because they are very few and far between.

Hope that made sense.

 

[marybet]

I have never seen a sign like that. Doesn't really make much sense. Most of the roads in Pensacola have a turning lane that is not at the traffic light for u-turns, but there are no signs saying right turn on red has the right of way.

 

[Christine]

You are assuming the right turn actually has to stop...are you sure the right turn isn't what is known as a "free flow" right?

Many busy intersections are now designed with a free-flow right...and they actually don't have to stop. This keeps traffic moving quite efficiently.

Also, in many areas, U-turns are illegal. And they are rarely (if ever) given the right of way when they are legal because they are very few and far between.

Hope that made sense.

Where I live, as far as I know, there is no "free-flow" right. It has a red light. Virginia law allows "right turn on red" unless otherwise noted (many busy intersections don't allow it).

In our area, u-turns are only illegal if the "no u-turn" sign is displayed.

In these two particular intersections, the u-turn is required because either a neighborhood or business is located quite close to the intersections and they do not have a way for the residents and/or customers to make a proper left turn out of the neighborhood/business. So the people have to pull out into the left turn lane and make a u-turn to go in the opposite direction. I think it horribly backs up left-turning traffic when the people have to yield to the "right turners on red". At both of these intersections, the right turn on red is very easy to make during most of the light cycle.

 

[hiwaygal]

I don't mean to be a smart-aleck about this, so please don't take it that way...

I understand your situation but my guess is that the u-turn isn't the only way to get moving in the other direction...it just may be what many folks see as "quicker".

I live in Virginia too, and while I know u-turns aren't illegal, they aren't necessarily "planned" for in the design of an intersection. As I mentioned, they usually don't account for enough traffic to justify stopping all other traffic.

Now, in your situation, if there are enough u-turns to justify the signal be adjusted, you might call your City's engineering or traffic management center to see what they can do to adjust that signal timing. I know our City will do that if there is a justification. That justification may not have been there when the intersection was built, but it might be there now!

 

[Chicago526]

I disagree with you. I think the sign is correct, because the person turning right has NO way to know that you plan on making a u-turn, and not just turn left. I've almost been nailed a couple of times by people doing a yo-yo when I'm turning right, because I can't tell that they aren't turning left!

 

[Christine]

I don't mean to be a smart-aleck about this, so please don't take it that way...

I understand your situation but my guess is that the u-turn isn't the only way to get moving in the other direction...it just may be what many folks see as "quicker".

Actually in these two cases, the U-turn is the only way to get in the other direction. These are older intersections that have had stuff "built up" around them. The first intersection involves a housing neighborhood. Because it was built so close to light, but not *at* the light, the county cannot safely let them make a left turn out of their neighborhood. The only way for these people to go left is to pull out of their neighborhood, cross two lanes of traffic and scoot into the left hand lane to make that u-turn.

In the second incident, they built one of those huge gas station/convenience stores and you cannot make a left turn out of the gas station, so again, it's only a u-turn to be made.

 

[hiwaygal]

UGH! That sucks!

I think contacting the "owner" of the intersection/signal (either the City or VDOT) might be a good thing to do...if enough people have called about this, they might already have something in the works, or can at least look more closely at the problem and see what (if anything) can be done.

Good Luck!!

 

[ckay87]

That sounds like very poor planning. Time to contact the old senator or whoever on that one. U-Turns are dangerous and should never be necessary.

I can't think of any intersection where a U-turn is absolutely necessary. But I know of your area and it is pretty "built up." Sounds like you could use the "jug-handles" ...is that what they're called...where you make a right to go left.