Annual Fees!!!

[eliza61]

I do intend on contacting them. I did not have a chance since the holiday was upon us. But honestly, regardless of the reason(s), my family has limits and we have just about reached ours. We would rather take the nearly $1500.00 paid in annual fees and apply it elsewhere. For us, the fees are rising much too quickly on an annual bases to the point that the cost out weights the benefits for us. Plus, we are not happy with all the changes Disney has made and is making. We do not at all like what is happening with magic bands and fast passes. All in all, combined, coming to the conclusion to move on is becoming an easier decision for us.

And that is what you should be doing. As with most things in life, rarely does some thing happen in a "vacuum".

We too occasionally "reevaluate" our need to keep our timeshares. Our vacation style is not the same as when we purchased. So far we still think there is value in it but like you the past 2 years, we've been less than pleased with any of the changes.

Absolutely nothing wrong with moving on. Like I said, every year we discuss if we enjoy Disney as much as when we brought in. So far our answer for various reasons has been no. Dues increase is probably very low on our list though.

 

[Kidanifan08]

. . . We would rather take the nearly $1500.00 paid in annual fees and apply it elsewhere. For us, the fees are rising much too quickly on an annual bases to the point that the cost out weights the benefits for us. Plus, we are not happy with all the changes Disney has made and is making. We do not at all like what is happening with magic bands and fast passes. All in all, combined, coming to the conclusion to move on is becoming an easier decision for us.

. . . I guess for some DVC is still a good deal. For us, not so much. Glad that it still works for you! We are actually very sad that it is not working for us. We had plans to pass our membership down to our daughter so that she would have the opportunity to build memories with her family one day.

I'd also like to add that DH and I did not purchase on impulse. We researched for 3 years before taking the plunge. We are aware of yearly increases and agreed to them. Unfortunately, the increases we are seeing are higher than we are willing to absorb. . . Sometimes we stay in studios, other times 1 or 2 bedrooms; all of which we enjoy . . . One of the reasons for our purchase was our love for the World and the intent on returning regularly. Well, that has changed as well. We are more and more disappointed with the changes Disney is making. So for us the two go hand in hand (steep increases and changes we do not care for.)

I am happy to hear that many DVC member are very content. We do have a special place in our hearts for DVC.

Since you have a special place in your heart, and you enjoy studios, why not hang on to your DVC for a couple of years and use half-ish of your points for a studio stay and rent the other half. Or -- rent them all. You don't necessarily need to rent on the open market. I help a close friend rent her points to business associates of ours, and have had no problem renting out the past 3 years of points to trustworthy people who have the $$ to go. Perhaps you know some people like that who you could rent to. That would give you a couple of years to really experience the changes that you think you won't like (MB's, FP+, etc). Who knows . . . you may end up liking them. I have not yet experienced these changes, but I am intrigued by having FP+ for evening hours at the parks; we have never ridden TOT in the dark!

You could easily cover you MF's if you rent out half of your points. If you rent them all, you could cover almost two years of MF's. Renting for a couple of years might give you some proceeds to pay down the loan (if you have one). Granted, if you wait two years, your AKV points may be worth less (possibly a lot less). But, with AKV selling out soon, I have a feeling AKV resale will stay close to the current level for a few years, as newer owners find out that they want more points, but "can't get them anymore" from Disney. Who knows . . . I am not an economist, real estate expert, or financial planner, so it's just a notion.

If you did buy direct from Disney within the past 4-5 years, hopefully it is paid off. You probably paid in the upper $90's to low $100's, but at this point you stand lose $30-40 per point in this sale. Additionally, the broker will get 10% of the proceeds. If you still have a loan, you could be "upside down". Keep that in mind. Also, if you have already used your 2013 points, or even some (or all) of the 2014 points, your contract is going to sit on the market for quite some time.

With regards to passing DVC on to your child, I think you are finding out why you would not want to strap some young person with the challenges of owning a TS. I am saying this so others who are considering that possibility understand the consequence to their children of passing on the "Magic". But, looking at your signature, your DD is approaching graduation, so perhaps hanging on and renting for awhile would give you the chance to give her an awesome graduation trip with friends. Just a thought.

I am sure this is not an easy decision for you. If you do sell, good luck getting a good price!

 

[Snurk71]

I think the more OP has shared, the less this really is about out of control MFs and the more it's about OP changing and/or changing their views on Disney with some of the changes Disney has made since OP purchased - and the MFs have become the final straw or focus of irritation. There appears to be overwhelming consensus from owners that the fee increases are normal/expected/maybe even better then expected (compared to the rate of increases for all else WDW).

 

[eliza61]

Agree with you 100%, this type of purchase should never be done with a loan!

why not? I did and know many folks who purchased it with a loan (well actually we put it on a credit card with a really low interest rate and got the points LOL). I made a budget, was comfortable with the budget, paid it off and have been enjoying many happy returns.

I just purchased a new house, I got a mortgage after 3 years of not having one. right now my investments are returning almost 20%, my new mortgage rate is 4.12%. I can comfortably handle the payments and associate living expenses so I have no problem with acquiring debt. I wasn't about to take money out of my investments under some idea of living "debt" free.

As you can tel, l for me money is a tool to be used just as any other tool.

 

[eliza61]

I think the more OP has shared, the less this really is about out of control MFs and the more it's about OP changing and/or changing their views on Disney with some of the changes Disney has made since OP purchased - and the MFs have become the final straw or focus of irritation. There appears to be overwhelming consensus from owners that the fee increases are normal/expected/maybe even better then expected (compared to the rate of increases for all else WDW).

that's what I mentioned also. mainly because that's also some thing we wrestle with. Our enjoyment has lessened over the years.

Op again, simply reevaluate. every year we do it, we just ask ourselves is disney still providing us the value it once was.
We'll anticipate getting to our break even point soon also. Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[Dean]

why not? I did and know many folks who purchased it with a loan (well actually we put it on a credit card with a really low interest rate and got the points LOL). I made a budget, was comfortable with the budget, paid it off and have been enjoying many happy returns.

I just purchased a new house, I got a mortgage after 3 years of not having one. right now my investments are returning almost 20%, my new mortgage rate is 4.12%. I can comfortably handle the payments and associate living expenses so I have no problem with acquiring debt. I wasn't about to take money out of my investments under some idea of living "debt" free.

As you can tel, l for me money is a tool to be used just as any other tool.

Since you asked the question I'll answer why I feel that consumer debt is bad. First, IMO debt is mostly psychology and far less about math. Also, an appreciating asset like a house is different (but only a little) than a depreciating luxury purchase. Also, 4% is far different than 11-15%. The info I've seen suggests that even people who pay off their CC every month spend roughly 15% more than they would without the CC, likely far more when they finance cars, furniture, vacations (such as CC), etc. Obviously one who chooses to finance but could easily pay everything off and be fine even if they lost their job isn't creating much of a problem, anything less than that is risky but there are degrees. Otherwise why not finance everything one can, keep the house at 80% financed and invest the entire amount ongoing. IMO only one or the other choice makes sense from a math standpoint.

 

[eliza61]

Since you asked the question I'll answer why I feel that consumer debt is bad. First, IMO debt is mostly psychology and far less about math. Also, an appreciating asset like a house is different (but only a little) than a depreciating luxury purchase. Also, 4% is far different than 11-15%. The info I've seen suggests that even people who pay off their CC every month spend roughly 15% more than they would without the CC, likely far more when they finance cars, furniture, vacations (such as CC), etc. Obviously one who chooses to finance but could easily pay everything off and be fine even if they lost their job isn't creating much of a problem, anything less than that is risky but there are degrees. Otherwise why not finance everything one can, keep the house at 80% financed and invest the entire amount ongoing. IMO only one or the other choice makes sense from a math standpoint.

Thanks Dean, always wondered about that. I was also told (by well meaning folks) that if I had to finance it, it was obvious we couldn't "afford" it.

Dh and I are so analytical that we know exactly how much we pay for stuff when we finance. when we finance cars we budget for the cost of the finance over 4 years etc etc, so generally by the time we go into the dealer to negotiate we know what our total costs (including projected maintence) are going to be.

LOL, the bolded did make me giggle because we actually did cash out the equity in our house one year to take part in an oil IPO offering. Let me say though that dh started out in energy futures so he definitely had the mantra of using other peoples money to make money.

So like I said for us debt was not a 4 letter word it was simply a tool we used to build our wealth.

Thanks for the perspective.

 

[3happydancers]

See below. They really haven't had large increases, DVC is simply expensive both up front and yearly and always has been.

There really isn't a limit other than 15% PLUS taxes every year. They've already proven to members with the 2 yr reallocation what I've said for years, that such limits don't mean anything and offer no protection.

In terms of comparing to other timeshares, they have been reasonable. A timeshare I used to own (converted to Bluegreen points), had a Special Assessment a few years ago that amounted to basically $1000 for each and every studio or 1 BR component (all lockoff's). My SA alone would have been almost $10K plus another roughly $7K in normal maint fees. Fortunately I'd converted a year or so earlier so I missed out on the SA. While it did get passed on to Bluegreen, it my portion was under $100 since it was passed on to a much larger group of owners. So far DVC has not had any SA surprises though I hear VB came close a few years ago.

We're already paying for those things now, just think Washington DC and increased taxes.

Based on what you've posted and assuming there have been no major changes in your financial situation, it doesn't sound like you made a wise choice to join as you did. It sounds like you cut it too close and couldn't actually afford it to start with. Some of my points in financial decisions related to purchasing DVC is that one shouldn't finance a timeshare or any luxury purchase and that being able to "afford" the monthly payments does not mean one can afford the purchase.

Actually, we are financially sound, no debt other than my home and family vehicle, and our membership was paid for within the first year of owning. So no, this has nothing to do with our not being able to "afford" the timeshare, more that I guess we are just not happy. This is our first and had nothing to compare it to. From what you posted other timeshares fees are far greater so in that respect, I guess we are lucky.

 

[3happydancers]

We own 150 points at OKW and our dues have increased since we bought four years ago, although not as much as they have at AKV. I pay MFs all at once in January and to be honest, whether the bill is $700, $800 or $900 does not phase me. Not that we are made of money or that I don't care how my money is spent, but a $100 increase is nothing compared to what we spend on tickets and food for annual WDW visits. Costs for running the resorts go up and I fully expect my dues to increase 3-5% a year. I can understand how a payment for initial buy in (especially at direct prices and DVC's crazy interest rates) plus MFs can get old, and if an $8 a month payment increase frustrates you than DVC may no longer be a good fit. Sorry that you are feeling frustrated, but it does happen and sometimes people decide to sell after a few years. Maybe you could rent your points for a year to recoup some of your costs and give yourself time to decide if you want to sell.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

We do expect increases yearly; that's not where our frustrations are. Compared to many other homes, AKL seems to be one of the resorts that always increases the most annually. Our timeshare is paid outright; was within the first year of owning, so finances is not an issue. I guess we are questioning whether at some point the cost for owning will cost more than it is worth for us.

I do thank everyone for simply giving your input without flaming me!!! Sometimes talking things over with others can help one to see things more clearly.

 

[crisi]

Actually, we are financially sound, no debt other than my home and family vehicle, and our membership was paid for within the first year of owning. So no, this has nothing to do with our not being able to "afford" the timeshare, more that I guess we are just not happy. This is our first and had nothing to compare it to. From what you posted other timeshares fees are far greater so in that respect, I guess we are lucky.

Sometimes, it takes the dues bill for you to say "am I really getting the VALUE from this that I want?" With "no cost for our room because we are DVC members" - it can be easy to forget with what for most of us is a small debit from our checking account each month for dues that there IS a cost to DVC - that over the year it adds up to "not cheap" and we have capital tied up as well.

I did the "end of 2013" review of my stock portfolio last week - you know, the "anything I want to cash out and pay taxes on now, anything I want the loss on for 2013" review. I try really hard not to be an sentimental investor, but I'll admit that I get emotionally invested in what I own - its hard to let go of something that has done well for you - and perhaps harder to let go of your mistakes. And that is stock - not the memories you've attached to DVC ownership. But in both cases, its necessary.

 

[3happydancers]

We own 150 points at OKW and our dues have increased since we bought four years ago, although not as much as they have at AKV. I pay MFs all at once in January and to be honest, whether the bill is $700, $800 or $900 does not phase me. Not that we are made of money or that I don't care how my money is spent, but a $100 increase is nothing compared to what we spend on tickets and food for annual WDW visits. Costs for running the resorts go up and I fully expect my dues to increase 3-5% a year. I can understand how a payment for initial buy in (especially at direct prices and DVC's crazy interest rates) plus MFs can get old, and if an $8 a month payment increase frustrates you than DVC may no longer be a good fit. Sorry that you are feeling frustrated, but it does happen and sometimes people decide to sell after a few years. Maybe you could rent your points for a year to recoup some of your costs and give yourself time to decide if you want to sell.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

And that is what you should be doing. As with most things in life, rarely does some thing happen in a "vacuum".

We too occasionally "reevaluate" our need to keep our timeshares. Our vacation style is not the same as when we purchased. So far we still think there is value in it but like you the past 2 years, we've been less than pleased with any of the changes.

Absolutely nothing wrong with moving on. Like I said, every year we discuss if we enjoy Disney as much as when we brought in. So far our answer for various reasons has been no. Dues increase is probably very low on our list though.

Since you have a special place in your heart, and you enjoy studios, why not hang on to your DVC for a couple of years and use half-ish of your points for a studio stay and rent the other half. Or -- rent them all. You don't necessarily need to rent on the open market. I help a close friend rent her points to business associates of ours, and have had no problem renting out the past 3 years of points to trustworthy people who have the $$ to go. Perhaps you know some people like that who you could rent to. That would give you a couple of years to really experience the changes that you think you won't like (MB's, FP+, etc). Who knows . . . you may end up liking them. I have not yet experienced these changes, but I am intrigued by having FP+ for evening hours at the parks; we have never ridden TOT in the dark!

You could easily cover you MF's if you rent out half of your points. If you rent them all, you could cover almost two years of MF's. Renting for a couple of years might give you some proceeds to pay down the loan (if you have one). Granted, if you wait two years, your AKV points may be worth less (possibly a lot less). But, with AKV selling out soon, I have a feeling AKV resale will stay close to the current level for a few years, as newer owners find out that they want more points, but "can't get them anymore" from Disney. Who knows . . . I am not an economist, real estate expert, or financial planner, so it's just a notion.

If you did buy direct from Disney within the past 4-5 years, hopefully it is paid off. You probably paid in the upper $90's to low $100's, but at this point you stand lose $30-40 per point in this sale. Additionally, the broker will get 10% of the proceeds. If you still have a loan, you could be "upside down". Keep that in mind. Also, if you have already used your 2013 points, or even some (or all) of the 2014 points, your contract is going to sit on the market for quite some time.

With regards to passing DVC on to your child, I think you are finding out why you would not want to strap some young person with the challenges of owning a TS. I am saying this so others who are considering that possibility understand the consequence to their children of passing on the "Magic". But, looking at your signature, your DD is approaching graduation, so perhaps hanging on and renting for awhile would give you the chance to give her an awesome graduation trip with friends. Just a thought.

I am sure this is not an easy decision for you. If you do sell, good luck getting a good price!

You have some great suggestions which I will discuss with DH. We don't want to make any rash decisions and what you have and a few others have mentioned makes sense. Take a break and rent our points. This would give us time to re-evaluate our vacation needs. But yes, we have a special place in our hearts for DVC and Disney!!! As for DD, we originally thought how wonderful it would be to pass the timeshare down. Now that she is getting older and we have had time to truly experience what is involved, we would not want to pass on a burden. So we are also rethinking this idea.

I think the more OP has shared, the less this really is about out of control MFs and the more it's about OP changing and/or changing their views on Disney with some of the changes Disney has made since OP purchased - and the MFs have become the final straw or focus of irritation. There appears to be overwhelming consensus from owners that the fee increases are normal/expected/maybe even better then expected (compared to the rate of increases for all else WDW).

Exactly!!!!!

that's what I mentioned also. mainly because that's also some thing we wrestle with. Our enjoyment has lessened over the years.

Op again, simply reevaluate. every year we do it, we just ask ourselves is disney still providing us the value it once was.
We'll anticipate getting to our break even point soon also. Nothing wrong with that at all.

You definitely understand what I have been saying. Thank you all for such wonderful input, and ideas. I feel much better about how we are feeling and ways to approach the situation without making hasty decisions.

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean, always wondered about that. I was also told (by well meaning folks) that if I had to finance it, it was obvious we couldn't "afford" it.

Dh and I are so analytical that we know exactly how much we pay for stuff when we finance. when we finance cars we budget for the cost of the finance over 4 years etc etc, so generally by the time we go into the dealer to negotiate we know what our total costs (including projected maintence) are going to be.

LOL, the bolded did make me giggle because we actually did cash out the equity in our house one year to take part in an oil IPO offering. Let me say though that dh started out in energy futures so he definitely had the mantra of using other peoples money to make money.

So like I said for us debt was not a 4 letter word it was simply a tool we used to build our wealth.

Thanks for the perspective.

As a minimum you're assuming significantly more risk than if you made more conservative choices as you know and likely spending more on choices than you would if you simply paid cash for the same type of choices. The problem with the perspective though is that your is a very unusual situation and one that cannot be well extrapolated to very many people. Few have the discipline to do what you are and do it well, I do but not the risk tolerance.

Actually, we are financially sound, no debt other than my home and family vehicle, and our membership was paid for within the first year of owning. So no, this has nothing to do with our not being able to "afford" the timeshare, more that I guess we are just not happy. This is our first and had nothing to compare it to. From what you posted other timeshares fees are far greater so in that respect, I guess we are lucky.

As a rule DVC is more in fees but are more predictable than some. You are upset over $100 a year, IF you truly understood what you were getting into, this should not be an issue and should be expected. Now it is reasonable to reconsider whether AKV or even DVC in general makes sense for you but as you've posted, if it doesn't now it never did unless your personal situation has changed unexpectedly.

 

[3happydancers]

Sometimes, it takes the dues bill for you to say "am I really getting the VALUE from this that I want?" With "no cost for our room because we are DVC members" - it can be easy to forget with what for most of us is a small debit from our checking account each month for dues that there IS a cost to DVC - that over the year it adds up to "not cheap" and we have capital tied up as well.

I did the "end of 2013" review of my stock portfolio last week - you know, the "anything I want to cash out and pay taxes on now, anything I want the loss on for 2013" review. I try really hard not to be an sentimental investor, but I'll admit that I get emotionally invested in what I own - its hard to let go of something that has done well for you - and perhaps harder to let go of your mistakes. And that is stock - not the memories you've attached to DVC ownership. But in both cases, its necessary.

I guess you can say this is what we are doing; reviewing and re-evaluating. Although, we do not view DVC as stock or an investment in the typical sense. We purchased DVC with the idea that it was for vacationing only, not as stock or property that would increase in value. But you are right, just like we evaluate our stock portfolio, there is nothing wrong with doing the same with our timeshare.

Like others who have been kind enough to share their knowledge, thanks for putting this into and investment/emotional perspective!

 

[CarolMN]

Sometimes, it takes the dues bill for you to say "am I really getting the VALUE from this that I want?" With "no cost for our room because we are DVC members" - it can be easy to forget with what for most of us is a small debit from our checking account each month for dues that there IS a cost to DVC - that over the year it adds up to "not cheap" and we have capital tied up as well.......(snip)......

I agree. One of the reasons I pay our annual fees in a lump sum is to remind me how much our DVC lodging costs.

The lump sum method also helps prevent add-on-itis.

 

[3happydancers]

As a minimum you're assuming significantly more risk than if you made more conservative choices as you know and likely spending more on choices than you would if you simply paid cash for the same type of choices. The problem with the perspective though is that your is a very unusual situation and one that cannot be well extrapolated to very many people. Few have the discipline to do what you are and do it well, I do but not the risk tolerance.

As a rule DVC is more in fees but are more predictable than some. You are upset over $100 a year, IF you truly understood what you were getting into, this should not be an issue and should be expected. Now it is reasonable to reconsider whether AKV or even DVC in general makes sense for you but as you've posted, if it doesn't now it never did unless your personal situation has changed unexpectedly.

Dean, not sure why you insist our financial situation has changed, but it hasn't and as I mentioned earlier, it is not just about the fee increase for this year. We do expect annual increases. There are a combination of reasons and feelings involved for us. Overall, we need to re-evaluate the cost of the timeshare vs our wants/needs in our lives today compared to 5 years ago. In general, wants and needs change as time passes. What was good 5 years ago may not fit the family today. Further, DVC and Disney have changed over the last 5 years that has caused us to feel unhappy which one cannot project, coupled with increases to the point we are unsure if we are getting our money's worth. Yes, numbers to paper, one would say paying $1500 in fees is worth getting a 10 day vacation in a nice 1 bedroom villa. However, it is not just about the money. For my family, we need to look at the whole picture.

 

[staceymay00]

I guess we are questioning whether at some point the cost for owning will cost more than it is worth for us.

I do this as well, although it is the food (especially the food now that 2 of 3 kids are "adults", although DVC helps us spend less on eating out) and ticket costs that get to me more than annual dues. I think it is a good thing to sometimes evaluate how much DVC is actually costing you. We still love going to WDW, but it is expensive and I no longer want to spend as much time and money visiting WDW each year as we have been. I want to have time to do other things as a family, and that has gotten more difficult now that my kids are tweens/teens and busier with school and sports. Luckily we never added on like I thought we would have by now. Our 150 points are perfect for a week in a 2BR every other year, otherwise I might be looking to rent some points once in a while myself.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[tjkraz]

Dean, not sure why you insist our financial situation has changed, but it hasn't and as I mentioned earlier, it is not just about the fee increase for this year. We do expect annual increases. There are a combination of reasons and feelings involved for us.

I'm not going to re-read the entire thread but all of your posts on the first page of the discussion focus on the financial aspect. No "combination of reasons and feelings" was stated or implied--every post specifically addresses the higher dues. Seems logical to assume that is the primary source of your dissatisfaction.

The dues increases at AKV, BLT and others have certainly been larger than many anticipated but still within an acceptable range for this type of product.

 

[crisi]

Although, we do not view DVC as stock or an investment in the typical sense. .....


Like others who have been kind enough to share their knowledge, thanks for putting this into and investment/emotional perspective!

Oh, God no....I don't either. It is specifically an EXPENSE to me. But the "do I get value" question is the same sort of process, with some of the same sort of emotional factors, more so because - with the exception of my Berkshire Hathaway stock - I have few "memories" attached to stock.

(The Berkshire Hathaway stock comes with the same sort of vacation like memories because we do the shareholder meeting every year. When Warren and Charlie die we won't need to stock to go see the Warren and Charlie show - and it will be sad.)

 

[Dean]

Dean, not sure why you insist our financial situation has changed, but it hasn't and as I mentioned earlier, it is not just about the fee increase for this year. We do expect annual increases. There are a combination of reasons and feelings involved for us. Overall, we need to re-evaluate the cost of the timeshare vs our wants/needs in our lives today compared to 5 years ago. In general, wants and needs change as time passes. What was good 5 years ago may not fit the family today. Further, DVC and Disney have changed over the last 5 years that has caused us to feel unhappy which one cannot project, coupled with increases to the point we are unsure if we are getting our money's worth. Yes, numbers to paper, one would say paying $1500 in fees is worth getting a 10 day vacation in a nice 1 bedroom villa. However, it is not just about the money. For my family, we need to look at the whole picture.

The top quote is in response to a very specific question from someone else, only the second applies directly to you as far as I know. From a financial standpoint, there's no reason to be upset about the increase. If it's because you're situation has changed, that's find but that wasn't your point in the OP. All we can go by is what you post and your original post suggested you were upset over a $100 a year increase that you should have known was likely.

 

[Sur]

Oh, God no....I don't either. It is specifically an EXPENSE to me. But the "do I get value" question is the same sort of process, with some of the same sort of emotional factors, more so because - with the exception of my Berkshire Hathaway stock - I have few "memories" attached to stock.

(The Berkshire Hathaway stock comes with the same sort of vacation like memories because we do the shareholder meeting every year. When Warren and Charlie die we won't need to stock to go see the Warren and Charlie show - and it will be sad.)

Sad day indeed! I had the privilege of meeting Warren when he came to tour my flight school. I was studying fervently in the corner, he noticed, and came over to talk. I bought A stock the first opportunity I could.