Annoying EPCOT Rumor

[Donald Duck Family]

Oh no am I the only one that misses Maelstrom? It was so damn cool and I love the whole Norwegian mythology! I mean Frozen is just...meh. Maelstrom had that old Disney ride nostalgia for me.

I loved Maelstrom. I miss Maelstrom. I even miss the movie about Norway at the end of the ride. I would watch it every time I rode.

"Back, back, over the falls..."

 

[CarolynFH]

I even miss the movie about Norway at the end of the ride. I would watch it every time I rode.

We did too!

 

[bsmcneil]

Really, anything is an IP, be it park original, a Disney movie, or an acquisition. I mean, Pirates of the Caribbean was original to the parks, but with all the movies now, how is it any different than something like Guardians. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter as long as it's a great ride!

Thank you. I started to type this. IP = intellectual property (which POTC and everything is when they're created). So, what people seem to want is unique attractions disconnected from existing media/IP, which could be cool (but a lot of times, interest in things is driven by media which is clearly different than it was 50 years ago). If Disney+ existed 50 years ago, and people consumed media on handheld devices like they do now, my guess is that Disney Parks would've had considerably less unique/disconnected attractions.

I do think that it can really stink when existing IP is shoehorned into things that don't seem to fit and/or uproot something (looking at you, Frozen Ever After). I get it; I really do. Not everything needs an existing IP slapped onto it to make it cool - I do wish there was more risk-takng in this way (but also get that if you have something that exists with a ton of media support - like Frozen - you'd want to capitalize on it as it'll bring in more profits than something that is entirely new and only consumed in-park).

 

[New Mouse]

If Disney can't sell something associated with it then it's not getting built today. Something like maelstrom could have easily been reimagined but at the end of the day there's no direct ROI other than ticket sales.

Pirates in MK and DL would not have been built under the current Disney management, they just don't have the vision of the imagineers.

 

[BrianL]

Thank you. I started to type this. IP = intellectual property (which POTC and everything is when they're created). So, what people seem to want is unique attractions disconnected from existing media/IP, which could be cool (but a lot of times, interest in things is driven by media which is clearly different than it was 50 years ago). If Disney+ existed 50 years ago, and people consumed media on handheld devices like they do now, my guess is that Disney Parks would've had considerably less unique/disconnected attractions.

I do think that it can really stink when existing IP is shoehorned into things that don't seem to fit and/or uproot something (looking at you, Frozen Ever After). I get it; I really do. Not everything needs an existing IP slapped onto it to make it cool - I do wish there was more risk-takng in this way (but also get that if you have something that exists with a ton of media support - like Frozen - you'd want to capitalize on it as it'll bring in more profits than something that is entirely new and only consumed in-park).

When Disneyland opened it had:

Autopia
Jungle Cruise
King Arthur Carousel
Mad Tea Party
Mark Twain Riverboat
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
Peter Pan's Flight
Snow White's Enchanted Wish
Storybookland Canal Boats

Of those only Autopia and Jungle Cruise are wholly original, with King Arthur Carousel and Mark Twain Riverboat based on non-Disney stories (though Sword in the Stone would be covered later). The rest of the rides were all created to promote existing movies or vice-versa. That has always been the primary function of the parks. I like a lot of the original ideas too, but injecting the existing IP into the parks has been happening from the very beginning.

 

[Jrb1979]

When Disneyland opened it had:

Autopia
Jungle Cruise
King Arthur Carousel
Mad Tea Party
Mark Twain Riverboat
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
Peter Pan's Flight
Snow White's Enchanted Wish
Storybookland Canal Boats

Of those only Autopia and Jungle Cruise are wholly original, with King Arthur Carousel and Mark Twain Riverboat based on non-Disney stories (though Sword in the Stone would be covered later). The rest of the rides were all created to promote existing movies or vice-versa. That has always been the primary function of the parks. I like a lot of the original ideas too, but injecting the existing IP into the parks has been happening from the very beginning.

The difference is there was a bit of balance where as now there is no balance. It's IP or bust.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Now I keep visualizing a state-of-the-art spinning rolling coaster zipping past Bill Nye the Science Guy explaining the Big Bang, while Ellen DeGeneres chimes in with witty asides.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Now I keep visualizing a state-of-the-art spinning rolling coaster zipping past Bill Nye the Science Guy explaining the Big Bang, while Ellen DeGeneres chimes in with witty asides.

Having grown up with the Ellen version of the Universe of Energy (wasn't alive during the original version), I would've loved that.

 

[Jennasis]

The difference is there was a bit of balance where as now there is no balance. It's IP or bust.

Balance? TWO rides of no IP vs 7 that included IP. Not exactly balanced.

Also, Disney just didn't have as much IP then as it does now.

I love Epcot now as an adult but as a kid the place bored me to tears. I'm enjoying the inclusion of their properties and I think they managed to find a way to put GotG in there that makes sense and is hilarious and kind of adorable. It's fantastic attraction and I hope they continue to expand Epcot with such fun things.

 

[Dis Dragon]

If Disney can't sell something associated with it then it's not getting built today. Something like maelstrom could have easily been reimagined but at the end of the day there's no direct ROI other than ticket sales.

Pirates in MK and DL would not have been built under the current Disney management, they just don't have the vision of the imagineers.

I'm not sure how reined in the new imagineers are, maybe they're not allowed to run with original ideas anymore. WED was built around several visionaries hired during Walt's tenure which basically defined their roles.

Not to knock him or anything but the best known imagineer after Rohde left is now Zac Riddley, which by his posts make him look like an expensive interior designer. Not sure how many current imagineers have original ideas under their belt.

Maybe that "glory" doesn't happen anymore, and I know the old rides had groups of people working on them but they were always attributed to direct imagineers, like X Atencio, Marty Sklar, Tony Baxter, Marc Davis, Bob Gurr, John Hench, Mary Blair, etc... I don't see this creativity happening anymore, it's all about screens and doing it bigger.

 

[samsteele]

I love Epcot now as an adult but as a kid the place bored me to tears.

This. Even if summer attendance drops a bit at WDW from the past year's surge, Disney had to find a way to redistribute crowds. HS and MK are jammed. Another high profile IP attraction in Epcot should draw young adults, families with teens and older kids and compliments the young kids' darlings Rat and Frozen. As an adult, I loved Epcot's nostalgic morning science and then afternoon to evening drinks, noshing around the world and shopping. But if bringing kids of any age, I would have loaded my tour plan with HS and MK. Now Epcot appeals to more and should absorb more numbers.

 

[New Mouse]

I loved epcot as a kid. It got boring when the let it turn into a museum for 30 years. It did phenomenal without IP and would have continued to do so if they had actually cared. If I want guardians of the galaxy I would go to tomorrowland. the parks don't need to all feel and be the same. That's what makes it worth staying for 4 days or more. Not having 4 magic kingdoms.

This. Even if summer attendance drops a bit at WDW from the past year's surge, Disney had to find a way to redistribute crowds. HS and MK are jammed. Another high profile IP attraction in Epcot should draw young adults, families with teens and older kids and compliments the young kids' darlings Rat and Frozen. As an adult, I loved Epcot's nostalgic morning science and then afternoon to evening drinks, noshing around the world and shopping. But if bringing kids of any age, I would have loaded my tour plan with HS and MK. Now Epcot appeals to more and should absorb more numbers.

 

[lilmc]

Oh no am I the only one that misses Maelstrom?

I miss it! What I loved about it was you thought you’d just gotten on a sleepy boat ride, then whoa! you’re sliding backwards. Unexpected and fun. The projections on the faces of Anna and Elsa are awful. They look like they have too much makeup on that they didn’t blend well.

 

[starlite_]

I loved epcot as a kid. It got boring when the let it turn into a museum for 30 years. It did phenomenal without IP and would have continued to do so if they had actually cared. If I want guardians of the galaxy I would go to tomorrowland. the parks don't need to all feel and be the same. That's what makes it worth staying for 4 days or more. Not having 4 magic kingdoms.

I'm curious if this is a generational thing. How old are you??

 

[gharter]

What's wrong with original attractions with no IP

I would suspect they are hard to design and even more difficult to market.
No matter what park you look at Disney, Universal or Six Flags, most of their new rides have some IP connection.
Seaworld or Cedar Point don't, but they really have any IP to mention.

 

[starlite_]

What's wrong with original attractions with no IP

I can answer that for me. If I wanted IP-less rides I would go to my local amusement park. Far less effort and cheaper.

 

[amylevan]

I loved epcot as a kid. It got boring when the let it turn into a museum for 30 years. It did phenomenal without IP and would have continued to do so if they had actually cared. If I want guardians of the galaxy I would go to tomorrowland. the parks don't need to all feel and be the same. That's what makes it worth staying for 4 days or more. Not having 4 magic kingdoms.

I LOVED epcot as a kid during our first WDW in the 80s. Horizons was my favorite ride in ALL of WDW. World of Motion and the original Journey into Imagination were awesome. And hey, Caption EO was amazing in its heyday.

Letting it sit stagnant for all those years is really what did it in.

 

[k5xs]

I can answer that for me. If I wanted IP-less rides I would go to my local amusement park. Far less effort and cheaper.

I think there have been plenty of high-quality, highly popular Disney IP-less attractions at WDW/DLR that go far beyond what any "local amusement park" can offer. Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion, Test Track, Mission Space, and Soarin' come quickly to mind.

So sure, if all you are looking for locally is the absence of Disney IP, you can ride a merry-go-round at your local amusement park. But if you are looking for Disney-quality in your ride experience, there are plenty of solid examples of successful WDW/DLR rides without Disney IP.

 

[starlite_]

I think there have been plenty of high-quality, highly popular Disney IP-less attractions at WDW/DLR that go far beyond what any "local amusement park" can offer. Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion, Test Track, Mission Space, and Soarin' come quickly to mind.

So sure, if all you are looking for locally is the absence of Disney IP, you can ride a merry-go-round at your local amusement park. But if you are looking for Disney-quality in your ride experience, there are plenty of solid examples of successful WDW/DLR rides without Disney IP.

You are counting those rides as IP-less. I don't. For me, an IP-less ride means no theme, like Knotts. How is Space Mountain not it's own IP ?? And let's not be condescending to local amusement parks, the ones I'm thinking of have all types of rides.

 

[Dis Dragon]

I think there have been plenty of high-quality, highly popular Disney IP-less attractions at WDW/DLR that go far beyond what any "local amusement park" can offer. Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Jungle Cruise, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion, Test Track, Mission Space, and Soarin' come quickly to mind.

So sure, if all you are looking for locally is the absence of Disney IP, you can ride a merry-go-round at your local amusement park. But if you are looking for Disney-quality in your ride experience, there are plenty of solid examples of successful WDW/DLR rides without Disney IP.

It's sad to think that some of these rides you mentioned would end up on the cutting room floor with today's Disney.