An idiots outburst at Magic Kingdom

[SeattleRedBear]

Me Too! Anyways, I had no idea that "lifestyle" was a derogatory term, till I googled it. If a gay person told me that I live a "straight lifestyle", I would assume that it meant I married, live with, and had children with a person of the opposite sex. So I take "gay lifestyle" to mean "gay marriage". Anyways, I don't mean to offend, and I apologize to those that I have. And Wally, no offense taken (even though I know you were trying, I don't fault you for it)

Thanks very much for the response! As you can see, it's a touchy point for some of us, so I appreciate the explanation.

Now back to your regularly scheduled broadcasting...

 

[f86sabjf]

in thru the nose out thru the mouth Rosie its the weekend

 

[wallyb]

Me Too! Anyways, I had no idea that "lifestyle" was a derogatory term, till I googled it. If a gay person told me that I live a "straight lifestyle", I would assume that it meant I married, live with, and had children with a person of the opposite sex. So I take "gay lifestyle" to mean "gay marriage". Anyways, I don't mean to offend, and I apologize to those that I have. And Wally, no offense taken (even though I know you were trying, I don't fault you for it)

Honey please it takes more than that .
I was just trying to illustraight how dopey and segragrating
using " lifestyle" is.

 

[OrlandoMike]

I think we can all agree to disagree on certain subjects.

The word "lifestyle" cxonfuses me too! Sitting here smack dab in the Middle of Illinois I can tell you the "lifestyle" is much different here than where I currently live. But I have spotted gay folks around town. They even have John Deere hats on!!

What is important is we all play fair and nice over here. And please remember as a Gay area of the boards, this area is going to lean a little more in favor of gay rights.

Thanks for considering this before posting!

 

[Cdn Gal]

My heart goes out to those that have been put down or beaten up. That man at the MK was an idiot. I don't get why people are so angry. What is the big deal?? I really don't understand the rage. There is absolutely no excuse for that behaviour and I hope that security asked that man and his family to leave the park for carrying on in such an outrageous fashion. Really- who does that??? Idiots!

 

[Lukas87]

Straight people who use the word "lifestyle" and "tolerate" know that those words tick gays off, that's why they always use them. It's kind of like when people say, "Oh I'm not racist, but...."

I dont think that this is a fair statement. Case in point is the post that we are all talking about. I think everyone here agrees that the intention of the poster was NOT to 'tick gays off' but rather to express that he was a supporter of... tolerance, if nothing else. Maybe he chose the wrong word, he used one that hes probably heard in the media or from other people he knows. Does this mean he was trying to tick us off. No.

So many members of our community rush to demonize people and go on the defense, which serves only to alienate potential allies. I guess being a much younger gay male, who has grown up in more tolerant times, I just have a different world view. I think it would be healthy for all sides of the issues just to take a deep breath and stop getting worked up over semantics! yeesh!

Look past a stupid word like 'lifestyle', thank the person for their support, and perhaps gently educate them on the more subtle connotations of a word like that.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Sorry Lukas. I respect your opinion, truly. However, it is imperative to get the "language of the descriptions" right. Sapir-Whorf is valid and it does matter; the language we use to describe our world.

Accepting veiled insults does no good for anyone. If you do not perceive the insult from your perspective then that implies you can thank those who went before you and did such an amazing job of refining the limited tolerance and acceptance you enjoy today.

I believe Rosie has hit it on the head. If Lifestyle is a euphemism for same gendered sex, then say so. Hiding behind a term, to incorporate non acceptance into one's communication is something that many of us have learned to recognize. We have paid a price for it, perhaps other than you have, or may be aware of.

I once had a uni acquaintance say, "I don't care who is gay as long as they don't hit on me." Yeah. Right. That is such a display of tolerance and acceptance. No. No it isn't.

We are the ones who bear the brunt of the discrimination, the intolerance, the bigotry. We are the ones who have to be strong enough, and yes - brave enough to call it what it is. Explaining the insult, explaining why it is an insult, and redirecting people to the language and the concepts that are inclusive is a vital part of activism.

Yes, you are young. That is a glorious thing. However, the responsibility of being gay falls to all of us.

Some of us will be more "activist" in our interactions with the world, and that is as it should be. If the gays at Stonewall hadn't said enough, we very well may still be locked in a world where this discussion couldn't take place.

I'll be brazen enough to say one more thing. It doesn't matter that someone outside the community finds no offense in the terms that many of us find offensive. What matters is that person has her or his awareness of the potential for insult heightened, and goes on to care about that.

Will we all (in this beautiful gay community) agree on these sorts of things? Of course not! We are humans first, and as such will never agree on many things... just like any other group with general interests yet very different personal perspectives.

 

[Dr. M]

I dont think that this is a fair statement. Case in point is the post that we are all talking about. I think everyone here agrees that the intention of the poster was NOT to 'tick gays off' but rather to express that he was a supporter of... tolerance, if nothing else. Maybe he chose the wrong word, he used one that hes probably heard in the media or from other people he knows. Does this mean he was trying to tick us off. No.

So many members of our community rush to demonize people and go on the defense, which serves only to alienate potential allies. I guess being a much younger gay male, who has grown up in more tolerant times, I just have a different world view. I think it would be healthy for all sides of the issues just to take a deep breath and stop getting worked up over semantics! yeesh!

Look past a stupid word like 'lifestyle', thank the person for their support, and perhaps gently educate them on the more subtle connotations of a word like that.

Lukas, I really do appreciate your point of view. So much wisdom for one so young! You will win many supporters with your approachable attitude and "gentle education". When people with religious convictions about gay sex (I'm not using "lifestyle" anymore, please note) show support for the gay community, they don't want to be received with harsh correction. Like you said, that's a quick way to turn away a potential ally. They care enough to listen to your point of view.

 

[Lukas87]

Sorry Lukas. I respect your opinion, truly. However, it is imperative to get the "language of the descriptions" right. Sapir-Whorf is valid and it does matter; the language we use to describe our world.

Accepting veiled insults does no good for anyone. If you do not perceive the insult from your perspective then that implies you can thank those who went before you and did such an amazing job of refining the limited tolerance and acceptance you enjoy today.

I want to preface my post by saying that I agree with you whole-heartedly and enjoy the continued expression of views.

That being said, I dont think I explained myself very well before. Let me try it another way.

We are gay. By default, this makes us experts on the encyclopedic list of terms that do or dont describe us. I have been, and continue to be, acutely aware of the importance of word choice, and the connotations that certain words have. And I also agree that educating people on those words is important.

What I was trying to express was that I firmly believe that the intent behind the words is much more important than the words themselves. When I think about this, my parents come to mind. Like most straight folks who are not as experienced with gay lingo as we are (how could they be!), they mistakenly use incorrect terms from time to time. But rather than attack them for being intolerant, which I know isnt the case, I take the time to explain to them what the words mean. For instance, my parents thought 'homosexual' was the PC word... which of course it isnt, and I know people who would be offended by it. I simply took the time to explain to them that 'homosexual' is a clinical term that for many connotes a throw back to times when being gay was a mental illness. They understand and dont use it again.

Like I attempted to explain before, I really think that the message behind the original post was one of tolerance. Worded poorly? Sure. But we have two choices. A) We attack them for being intolerant -or- B) We thank them for their support and educate them on how they can continue to support the gay community by learning the importance of word choice and what different things mean.

I agree that accepting veiled insults does us no good. BUT, I do not think that this was a veiled insult. I think it was an honest mistake. Its also not a matter of a lack of perception either, in my case. There are many times that I am none too pleased by the use of the term lifestyle. Many instances of watching FOX news comes to mind when I roll my eyes and change the channel.

I think as times change and societal views change, it is important for the approaches we take towards relating with straight people to change. In the past, the gay community was regularly attacked and having a self-defense reflex was probably an important survival skill. I think moving forward, that reflex needs to start fading. Being in attack mode will only serve to alienate people who just arent quite sure what the right words are, or how to relate to us, but who may mean well, and want to do the right thing.

 

[Lukas87]

Some of us will be more "activist" in our interactions with the world, and that is as it should be.

I'll have to ask you all to please forgive the double post and my extended rantings, I get off on a tangent sometimes. But as I was rereading the thread, this comment raised an eyebrow and I just want to take a moment to clarify.

If my post gave the impression that I take for granted the progress thats been made and just simply lay back and enjoy the world as is, then I regret not wording my statements more carefully. I am continually amazed at the strength of our community and the sacrifices that have been made along the struggle towards equality.

My views arent that we should ignore issues, but rather to approach them more diplomatically. I am generally the first one to speak up when I dont like something (just look at my posts), I just try to do it in a way that isnt going to push people away. Activism takes many shapes and forms, and all play a vital role. I am all about building bridges and being the mushy, touchy feely, one. Im a lover, not a fighter. Kill em with kindness? Isnt that the saying.

Its important to have the beat em over the head with a tolerance stick type, and likewise its important to have the diplomats. I know my role, and it doesnt make me any less activist!

ok, my self-Public Service Announcement is now over.

 

[ToddyLu]

From a Southern MS, educated, straight, very tolerant catholic who loves taking care of everyone.....note to self.....remove "lifestyle" and "homosexual" from my list of acceptable definitions or references when speaking of others. Thanks for the education today. I truly had no idea that these were unacceptable and why. Trully I appreciate this thread for making me aware.

I have however if only for a few brief moments experienced a smidge of hatred toward me that all of you have had to endure at some point in your lives.

New York City 2006...Itialian restaurant somewhere. I traveled with a very good friend of mine and her daughter on this trip. I am pooh sized, with very short blonde hair and not what you would call a girly girl. She is smaller than me also with short hair..are you getting a picture yet (sterotypical connotations). We were sitting beside one another in the both, of course in athletic clothing because we were on vacation. Her daughter was sitting across from us so we could chat. In walks a man who continually stared at me the whole time we ate. I only noticed him. I know that he thought we were a couple...I am straight...I could tell what he was thinking. It was a lesson to me...I could not get out of there fast enough becasue I really felt threatened by him, even though he said nothing, made no comments or gestures. Every nerve in my body was on edge. Let the idiot thinks what he wants, too. It was actually my lesson to learn. We are all raised to believe different things about different people, but we ourselves ultimately choose how we act as responsible adults. That one brief instance has made me much more tolerant of everyone I come in contact with....rich, poor, dirty, clean, white, black, male , female, gay or straight. Do you know how liberating that is--to not judge at all....or to at least make the conscious effort to let judgement go. I practice, practice, practice at it and it is not always easy. Thanks for the education today on the DIS another lesson learned.

 

[Lukas87]

From a Southern MS, educated, straight, very tolerant catholic who loves taking care of everyone.....note to self.....remove "lifestyle" and "homosexual" from my list of acceptable definitions or references when speaking of others. Thanks for the education today. I truly had no idea that these were unacceptable and why. Trully I appreciate this thread for making me aware.

I have however if only for a few brief moments experienced a smidge of hatred toward me that all of you have had to endure at some point in your lives.

New York City 2006...

Great post. The ways that unexpected life experiences teach us things is so fascinating.

The post also serves to reinforce my opinion that the silent majority of straight people just hear talking heads use terms like these, and assume they are the correct terms. I think a substantial amount of their usage is born out of a lack of knowledge rather than an intention to be intolerant. In that case spread the love and the knowledge along with it.

 

[mickeyfan1]

OK, I read the end and had to go back to find the original "lifestyle" reference. I believe that there are many, many, many straight people who feel that homosexuality is a choice. People choosing to be gay are choosing the "gay lifestyle". That has always been my experience in speaking with those people living the "Straight, Christian, and therefore only correct Lifestyle". But let me tell you, if you google lifestyle and say, Vegas, chances are you will happen upon Swingers, who will tell you they are "In the Lifestyle" or "Living the Lifestyle". The swinger community has IDed itself as "The Lifestlye" for maybe as long as it's been around. I know a lot of gay man and women and I know a lot of swingers. But I don't know any gay swingers. Who knows, maybe there are some, I just haven't met them.

I would NEVER say that any of my gay friends are living a "gay lifestyle." They are living just like me, some days are great, some days are not. Some are in a committed relationship, some are married, some are single. Some are happy with their wife/husband/partner, some are not, some are happy single, some are looking for "the one". Doesn't sound any different than straight people to me.

OK, off my soap box now.

 

[wallyb]

But I don't know any gay swingers. Who knows, maybe there are some, I just haven't met them.

Hi!
Nice to meet you.




just kidding.

 

[mickeyfan1]

Now that I think about it, perhaps I have met one. He and his partner, of many years, had a personalized plate on thier car, 2ofus4u. DOn't know if it worked.

Wally, you are so cute.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Lukas, You are one wicked kid, ya' know it? OK. Skip the kid. One fine man.

 

[ToddyLu]

Now that I think about it, perhaps I have met one. He and his partner, of many years, had a personalized plate on thier car, 2ofus4u. DOn't know if it worked.

Wally, you are so cute.

Love it!!

 

[chell]

I am inclined to say yes too

That is my neighbor. One who had friends over the other day ( a 1st in the 8 years we have lived there). They all joined in a conversation about Pride (which we just had) and how gay people shoud not be allowed to do that or even live amonst others ( no kidding). They went on about how we should be shot or worse. One lady continued a story about how her son saw his aunt kissing another women and how he should have beat her until she died. She agreed!!! I have great neighbors. They made sure that we heard everyword. That night we actually had 4 fgriends over so they also listened. The best part is one who participated with my neighbors is a customer of mine. I think he has no idea who se house he was next to. I can't wait till he comes in, so I can show him the door!

This makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't understand how anyone could think another person deserves that just because of their sexual orientation. I could agree with something like that over a child molester or serial killer, but not a person who is gay or lesbian. People like that make me sick!

 

[chell]

Sadly where I live there are plenty of people who would have those types of outbursts or worse. There are people I work with who make comments about "those gays" often. In order to protect my family I refer to my sisters instead of my sister and her partner/SO. In my eyes her partner is my sister since she has been a part of our family for so long anyway. But I hate the fact that I can't be completely open about their relationship and that they can't either because people are so pig headed. They have 2 sons that they adopted and we all know they will face issues. But they have very loving parents and get lots of support from us too.

Thankfully now I can be more open about my lesbian sister and all my gay and lesbian friends than I could several years ago because of the job I had. I used to work for a religious organization and they didn't like it when I would do stuff with my friends. Whatever! To me a friend is a friend! I don't care who you go home to or what religion you practice, if any. What matters to me is if you are a good person and a good friend. I don't think you are going to burn in hell if you don't agree with me on everything. Someone today invited me to their church, yet again, but I have issues with that because churches here are too close minded. I can't be that narrow minded. My Muslim friend isn't a bad person just because she is Muslim. She is one of the sweetest people I've ever met! I just don't get these close minded people.

I am so thankful that I can think for myself and that I accept people for who they are, not for what I think they should be.

Sadly I've only been to Gay Days once. I'd love to go again to show my support, but they would have to move it. It's too dang hot in June!

Thanks for letting me ramble on so long. Sorry about that.

 

[PghLybrt]

Thanks chell.

It actually motivates me to be as open as I can be and fully be who I am. If I want to kiss my girl goodbye on the front porch I do it, If i want to listen to music that might have some gay references on my back porch I do it, and if i want to dress up my Chihuahua in drag for halloween I do that to!!!! (Now that last one was fun!).