An "End vs Means" Question

[The Mystery Machine]

I think it can be answered generically. For me, it's not ok to harm anyone or anyone's family. I can't imagine a situation in which I think it would be ok to hurt someone else. Especially someone other than the person performing the questionable act.

I already gave that answer first.

 

[Maleficent13]

Frankly I prefer to stay out of abortion debates so if that what this is about, I really don't want to get into it.

It was never about abortion. Abortion was a random example I threw out there for those who wants more examples. IRL, this question was inspired by a story I heard today about animal research, which is another one of the examples I threw out there.

 

[goodeats]

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of a scientist who is performing experiments on animals in order to get them to cease performing the experiments?

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is performing abortions in order to get them to cease performing abortions?

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is works on stem cell research in order to get them to cease performing research?

Is it okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is a furrier in order to get them to cease making furs?

No of course not! Even if they were doing something illegal (i.e. making crack cocaine or some sort of prostitution) it's still wrong to threaten any violance. Let the police take care of it.

But really I think we need to know the specifics. If this was a radio debate I can't imagine it was something like the examples above.

 

[Maleficent13]

But really I think we need to know the specifics. If this was a radio debate I can't imagine it was something like the examples above.

It was a news story about activists threatening the families of individuals (and the individuals themselves) whom they believe are harming animals, not a radio debate.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

Is it ever okay to threaten/try to harm the spouse, parents or children of an individual who is performing a legal but morally questionable act/job in order to get them to cease performing the act/job?

That's about as concise as I can make it!

This is an interesting thread and I've read all posts.


For me this is an easy answer. The answer is no. Threatening or harming someone is wrong. We are talking about something that is legal, so they have a write to perform that act/job whatever it may be. If a person (s) finds an act to morally wrong, they should find legal ways to respond, be that through legislation, or boycotting the company, or raising public awareness.

 

[VSL]

Reminds me of a case here a while back, where animal rights people robbed the grave (possibly grave's) of dead members of a family whose company bred guinea pigs for testing/research.

 

[cardaway]

OK to threaten, maybe even kill the family members of Middle Eastern terrorists?

Since people were OK with us torturing them, I suspect some would also be in favor of us rounding up their families and doing what it takes.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

OK to threaten, maybe even kill the family members of Middle Eastern terrorists?

Since people were OK with us torturing them, I suspect some would also be in favor of us rounding up their families and doing what it takes.

Well I think someone on this board stated that all crazy arabs should be killed, so I am sure there are some that would think that this would be okay.

Personally, it makes me want to throw up.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

It was never about abortion. Abortion was a random example I threw out there for those who wants more examples. IRL, this question was inspired by a story I heard today about animal research, which is another one of the examples I threw out there.

I prefer not to participate in debates like this so if I had known your topics I would not have answered. Nothing against you, just too heavy for me. Now I will tiptoe out of here.... Happy debating!

 

[MareQ]

For example: In family A, Dad is doing something that you are vehemently against. What he is doing is legal, but morally questionable in your view. In order to get him to cease doing said action, is it okay to threaten harm to any member of his family if he should choose to continue?

*
In other words, is there any end which would justify the above means?

It is NEVER ok to THREATEN HARM to somebody's family because you disagree with their actions - even if their actions are illegal IMO.

 

[Bob Slydell]

OK to threaten, maybe even kill the family members of Middle Eastern terrorists?

Since people were OK with us torturing them, I suspect some would also be in favor of us rounding up their families and doing what it takes.

If they're involved in illegal activities, that's not a good example, IMO.

In the examples that Mal gave, no, there's not a situation where threatening violence is appropriate.

 

[Dory's Twin]

This one is easy....It is never ok to threaten the family members....

True Life story, my Dad was a researcher at a major medical facility, used monkeys, dogs, cats, rats....as a family we were threatened many times.....I grew up believing that many people thought the life of a monkey was more important than mine......

I also grew up believing that my fathers research was extremely important in the lives of many (no we are not talking Mabelline here!! ).

It can be a truely scary thing for the "innocents"

 

[smartestnumber5]

I was a philosophy major in college and these are some of the tough questions moral philosophers deal with when trying to figure out what the theory of morality is best. Some argue that the ultimate moral principle or moral goal is to provide for the welfare of everyone with some kind of equal balance. Others think that the basis of morality is each individual's status as an autonomous person who has a certain set of rights which it is always immoral to violate.

Both ideas lead to some unsavory results. The rights based view runs into problems when you take crazy hypothetical sitautions like the following. Dr. Evil (from Austin Powers) has figured out a way to destory half the world and is threatening to do so. Austin Powers is trying to stop him--Austin finds Dr. Evil's lair and finds a nuclear weapon (and more mukes where that came from) ready to fire on NYC. The only way to get close enough to disarm the weapon, though, is to distract Dr. Evil. The only way to do that is to drop baby Mini-Me (in his innocent pre-evil days) over a railing so that Dr. Evil will have to run to catch him (though Dr. Evil probably won't get to Mini-me before he hits the ground. What should Austin do? Well, it would suck to be Austin and have to hurt an innocent baby in order to save millions of people. But isn't that what he should do? The welfare view says yes, hurt the baby, save the million. The rights view says no, don't hurt the baby, let the million be killed.

Though I'm usually very attracted to the rights view, I don't think it can be right in this case. In a situation like this, it really does seem that the end does justify the means.

Luckily situations like this rarely occur. If there was less at stake--say 5 people were going to be killed if Austin didn't drop Mini-me, then I'd probably say he should drop Mini-me. The trade off isn't worth it. The tough part is figuring out which trade offs are worth it and which aren't.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Reminds me of a case here a while back, where animal rights people robbed the grave (possibly grave's) of dead members of a family whose company bred guinea pigs for testing/research.

Some one beat me to it here is what happened to the idiots

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,200-2176689,00.html

And having seen the program with some of them in it I don't think they really give a toss about animals at all.

 

[ticktock]

NO! Whatever your views are, you have no right to indanger the life of an innocent person to further your cause. That is insane. Truely,truely scary,and that some people have said maybe is even scarier. It just shows how far we, as a society have fallen.

Remember; When you go out to fight monsters, becareful you don't bcome one.