Amazed and Disappointed

[wdwlver]

This whole thing is maddening. We leave the 29th and this will be first summer trip in memory (we've been going every summer for more than 12 years) that MK will close at 10 every night.

 

[dlavender]

This whole thing is maddening. We leave the 29th and this will be first summer trip in memory (we've been going every summer for more than 12 years) that MK will close at 10 every night.

What world do we live in where MK closes at the same time as Dollywood?

I mean, come on.

 

[rteetz]

Regardless of what Disney wants, their pricing is not matching their offerings.

If you want to look at it from the perspective of "you are paying for Pandora", then the argument is that most people are not able to get on Flight of Passage once, much less multiple times.

This doesn't make sense to me. Disney didn't raise the ticket price of AK because Pandora opened. So no you aren't paying for Pandora. Disney is giving you more time on your ticket to experience Pandora.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Disney is giving you more time on your ticket to experience Pandora.

And less time in MK. That is a net negative.

 

[dlavender]

This doesn't make sense to me. Disney didn't raise the ticket price of AK because Pandora opened. So no you aren't paying for Pandora. Disney is giving you more time on your ticket to experience Pandora.

On the other side, though, they did raise the price of your MK ticket, then shut it down earlier than years past.

Then they are "graciously" allowing those with hoppers to check out Pandora.

 

[rteetz]

And less time in MK. That is a net negative.

I'm in the middle on this argument. How do we know that if Pandora wasn't there that MK would be open late? We don't. Personally I don't think MK would be open late if Pandora wasn't there.

 

[wdwlver]

And less time in MK. That is a net negative.

And on top of that last summer before Pandora even opened AK was open till 11 every night. Whole park was open. And MK till 11 or 12. Very much a net negative this year.

 

[rteetz]

On the other side, though, they did raise the price of your MK ticket, then shut it down earlier than years past.

Then they are "graciously" allowing those with hoppers to check out Pandora.

But see they raise prices every year so that's not unexpected. Hours have been changing every year as well. It's unfortunate I know but other than not going at all there isn't much we can do about Disney changing hours.

 

[dlavender]

But see they raise prices every year so that's not unexpected. Hours have been changing every year as well. It's unfortunate I know but other than not going at all there isn't much we can do about Disney changing hours.

That's true, but you specifically pay the peak pricing for July. So you are paying more for the same or less hours than you are in other periods.

But you are right, not much we can do about the park closing earlier than it has in the past.

Except for complain and hope for a change in the other direction

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

OK... so with a few weeks left before our trip I wanted to check my sanity about this and get an idea of what we're in for. I pulled together the attached from TP ACTUAL CROWD LEVELS AND HOURS in 2016 and 2017 over the same 15-day period in July (7/6-20/17, 7/7-21/16).

Short version is that I think there's a good reason why reports are largely of things seeming much more crowded/worse in MK and AK.

Here are some highlights:

From 2016 to 2017 over this same 15-day period…

• Crowds up an average of 12% per TP "actual" crowd reports
• 18 hrs LESS at MK (8% decrease)
• 2.5 hrs LESS at DHS (1% decrease)
• 15 hrs LESS of ALL AK OPEN (7% decrease)
• 30 hrs MORE of ONLY PANDORA open ("100% increase" -- 2 new rides)

If you figure out "Total Attraction Hours" -- i.e. number of attractions TIMES total hours change from 2016 to 2017, you get:

• 558 FEWER attraction hours in MK
• 105 NET FEWER attraction hours in AK
• 15 FEWER attraction hours in DHS
  • FOR A TOTAL OF 678 FEWER "ATTRACTION HOURS" OVER THIS 15-DAY PERIOD -- WHEN EST. CROWDS ARE UP 12%

Seems to me that perhaps Disney messed up a tad here. What at first blush might sound like "well, they took away 1hr in MK but added 1hr in Pandora" is something different in reality.

And this is only attractions... doesn't account for things like a PP mentioned, that without night parades in MK all are leaving at once, etc.

DISCLAIMER: I threw this together VERY QUICKLY -- if anyone actually wants to look through the wkbk and finds errors, let me know! And obvious disclaimers like if TP's methodology changed 2016 to 2017 these aren't apples to apples, etc., etc.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwwaHpE7nFDaQ1FZZS1reEE3bW8

 

[dlavender]

OK... so with a few weeks left before our trip I wanted to check my sanity about this and get an idea of what we're in for. I pulled together the attached from TP ACTUAL CROWD LEVELS AND HOURS in 2016 and 2017 over the same 15-day period in July (7/6-20/17, 7/7-21/16).

Short version is that I think there's a good reason why reports are largely of things seeming much more crowded/worse in MK and AK.

Here are some highlights:

From 2016 to 2017 over this same 15-day period…

• Crowds up an average of 12% per TP "actual" crowd reports
• 18 hrs LESS at MK (8% decrease)
• 2.5 hrs LESS at DHS (1% decrease)
• 15 hrs LESS of ALL AK OPEN (7% decrease)
• 30 hrs MORE of ONLY PANDORA open ("100% increase" -- 2 new rides)

If you figure out "Total Attraction Hours" -- i.e. number of attractions TIMES total hours change from 2016 to 2017, you get:

• 558 FEWER attraction hours in MK
• 105 NET FEWER attraction hours in AK
• 15 FEWER attraction hours in DHS
  • FOR A TOTAL OF 678 FEWER "ATTRACTION HOURS" OVER THIS 15-DAY PERIOD -- WHEN EST. CROWDS ARE UP 12%

Seems to me that perhaps Disney messed up a tad here. What at first blush might sound like "well, they took away 1hr in MK but added 1hr in Pandora" is something different in reality.

And this is only attractions... doesn't account for things like a PP mentioned, that without night parades in MK all are leaving at once, etc.

DISCLAIMER: I threw this together VERY QUICKLY -- if anyone actually wants to look through the wkbk and finds errors, let me know! And obvious disclaimers like if TP's methodology changed 2016 to 2017 these aren't apples to apples, etc., etc.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwwaHpE7nFDaQ1FZZS1reEE3bW8

You took this to an awesome level.

Thanks!

I never thought about using attraction hour as the metric. Genius!

 

[LSUmiss]

This might have been in a previous post, but I missed it. Can anyone tell me who I can/should email to officially complain to WDW about these hours? Probably won't do any good but will make me feel better to express my dissatisfaction!!

 

[wdwlver]

This might have been in a previous post, but I missed it. Can anyone tell me who I can/should email to officially complain to WDW about these hours? Probably won't do any good but will make me feel better to express my dissatisfaction!!

wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

I emailed too. I know it won't change anything but I did it anyway.

 

[Wdwfan2016]

This doesn't make sense to me. Disney didn't raise the ticket price of AK because Pandora opened. So no you aren't paying for Pandora. Disney is giving you more time on your ticket to experience Pandora.

Sorry but Disney isn't giving you more time to experience Pandora, they are only keeping the park open to spread out crowds because the attractions can't handle the number of day Guests coming to experience Pandora. They don't want complaints at Guest Relations because of the 120+ minute wait times from Resort Guest.

 

[rteetz]

Sorry but Disney isn't giving you more time to experience Pandora, they are only keeping the park open to spread out crowds because the attractions can't handle the number of day Guests coming to experience Pandora. They don't want complaints at Guest Relations because of the 120+ minute wait times from Resort Guest.

Well that is a given. They still have 120+ minute waits and guest complaints. People complain no matter what. Keeping Pandora open gives guests more time so they can experience it which in hand spreads out crowds, that is what I was getting at.

 

[mom2rtk]

OK... so with a few weeks left before our trip I wanted to check my sanity about this and get an idea of what we're in for. I pulled together the attached from TP ACTUAL CROWD LEVELS AND HOURS in 2016 and 2017 over the same 15-day period in July (7/6-20/17, 7/7-21/16).

Short version is that I think there's a good reason why reports are largely of things seeming much more crowded/worse in MK and AK.

Here are some highlights:

From 2016 to 2017 over this same 15-day period…

• Crowds up an average of 12% per TP "actual" crowd reports
• 18 hrs LESS at MK (8% decrease)
• 2.5 hrs LESS at DHS (1% decrease)
• 15 hrs LESS of ALL AK OPEN (7% decrease)
• 30 hrs MORE of ONLY PANDORA open ("100% increase" -- 2 new rides)

If you figure out "Total Attraction Hours" -- i.e. number of attractions TIMES total hours change from 2016 to 2017, you get:

• 558 FEWER attraction hours in MK
• 105 NET FEWER attraction hours in AK
• 15 FEWER attraction hours in DHS
  • FOR A TOTAL OF 678 FEWER "ATTRACTION HOURS" OVER THIS 15-DAY PERIOD -- WHEN EST. CROWDS ARE UP 12%

Seems to me that perhaps Disney messed up a tad here. What at first blush might sound like "well, they took away 1hr in MK but added 1hr in Pandora" is something different in reality.

And this is only attractions... doesn't account for things like a PP mentioned, that without night parades in MK all are leaving at once, etc.

DISCLAIMER: I threw this together VERY QUICKLY -- if anyone actually wants to look through the wkbk and finds errors, let me know! And obvious disclaimers like if TP's methodology changed 2016 to 2017 these aren't apples to apples, etc., etc.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwwaHpE7nFDaQ1FZZS1reEE3bW8

Messed up? Someone probably got a bonus.

Thank you for taking the time to run the numbers.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You took this to an awesome level.

Thanks!

I never thought about using attraction hour as the metric. Genius!

Thanks. Just seemed like the only way I could think of to quantify the difference between them not keeping MK open and only offering 2 attractions in Pandora that "offsets".

Messed up? Someone probably got a bonus.

Thank you for taking the time to run the numbers.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Well that is a given. They still have 120+ minute waits and guest complaints. People complain no matter what. Keeping Pandora open gives guests more time so they can experience it which in hand spreads out crowds, that is what I was getting at.

And they could STILL accomplish that AND keep the rest of AK open.

 

[mom2rtk]

And they could STILL accomplish that AND keep the rest of AK open.

Voila. Everyone is happy. Except the accountants.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Voila. Everyone is happy. Except the accountants.

Don't blame the accountants -- they only count things after the fact. Blame the FINANCIAL STRATEGY folks!