Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[jm-mom]

That is the point that bothers me the worst. They get bailouts and everything else going their way and it will supposedly all trickle down to jobs. So where are these jobs then? Way too many people are still unemployed or underemployed.

I blame outsourcing for the most part. Companies shouldn't get a thing as long as they outsource.

I wish all companies could rely on making everything in this country but the unions have made that impossible. They've driven up the cost of wages and benefits to the point where companies can't afford those workers anymore. At one time unions served their purpose but not any more. Why should a unionized auto worker who installs seats all day make more than a teacher who has a college degree?

 

[jm-mom]

Part of what I take away from these protests is that they are looking for more equality in wage earning in this country. I simply don't understand this way of thinking. I don't understand why, for example, in a family where the dad may be a truck driver and the mom a store clerk, they expect to earn a similar wage to a family where both parents have been to college and work in a professional career. As someone pointed out earlier, it's all about choice. With every choice is an outcome. We all make different choices for our lives and should accept the result of those choices.

I do get that there is more to these protests than just this but this is the part that bothers me. It is sort of the same thinking, this idea that we all deserve the same things in life, that caused the mortgage crisis. Those people, in many cases at least, bought more house than they could afford because someone not only convinced them they could afford it, but also that they deserved it.

We have been married for 25 years and have gone from being starving, poor college students to upper middle class wage earners. At our darkest times financially it never entered our minds that someone else should give us money. We set goals, worked very hard and got where we are today. We live debt free except for our mortgage, have savings, college funds and retirement and still fall into the criteria of being in the 99%. My point is that rather than spending time protesting, those people should get jobs wherever and however they can and build their lives. The key word is BUILD and anyone who's been down that road and succeeded will tell you it doesn't happen overnight or fall into your lap at the hands of someone richer than you.

 

[58cognac]

I tried to find a real news story about that, but I didn't find anything. There was a mention that one person identified as a protester said there were "up to 10 rapes" in the NYC camp, but that's all I found. I have no idea if she is a real protester or if she's making things up. If there have been rapes at the OWS sites, the rapists should be arrested and prosecuted and security should be tightened for the safely of all protesters. However from my quick Googling, the "10 rapes in NYC!" thing seems to be one of the current "talking points" to discredit the movement. It actually turns my stomach the way that some web sites are crowing about it.

Occupy Dallas... a sex offender who failed to register as required allegedly sexually assaulted a teenager.

 

[jm-mom]

I think I love you. Just saying.

I. . . and yes I think there are people who can't afford to pay taxes because they make so little in what people call this "great" country).

I pulled this one statement out to comment on because I think it's so important. This IS a great country because we have freedom of choice, Our government allows us to choose our own career path and whatever training comes with that. If someone is trying to exist on a fast food income, for example, that is their choice. Their life choices have put them in that job. It's not the country's fault that this person can't make as much as a computer programmer or a teacher. They chose not to get an education, and do so in an employable field.

I know there are protesters who are college educated and can't find a job but has anyone examined what fields they studied? And for that matter, how ambitious are they about going to work? Are they willing to relocate?

This is a great country and there are jobs out there. But it's all about choice, ambition, dedication, etc.

 

[maddhatir]

I can almost bet this would not have happened if it were not for the screaming. People are just sick and tired- letter and phone calls do not work- if they did- obviously, our country would not be in the mess it is in! When I write a letter I get a BS form letter back from the Congressman I wrote it to. They don't care about your letters.

This is a very small step- but at least it is a step forward.

Boulder Votes for a Constitutional Amendment to Abolish Corporate Personhood
http://movetoamend.org/news/boulder-votes-constitutional-amendment-abolish-corporate-personhood

 

[moburg]

I haven't read the whole tread and I can honestly say I don't completely understand OW's message either, BUT....I am glad they are there and wish I could be as well. I think they are there as a voice saying "we are fed up". What will it accomplish? Ask Bank of America. The actions of people can cahnge corporate policies. Sure, those camping out are not costing any corportation any money but I do believe a unified cause and purpose will be established from this group which will make a difference.

The person who made the photo on the first page of this thread is clueless. Absolutely clueless. No one is complaining about Sharpie or Clairol. No one complained about buying a $600 I-phone when they had jobs to buy them. The complaint is greedy giants like BoA who laid off 40k people to "save money" and then decided to charge its customers $5 a month to use their own money.....all because they wanted to line their pockets with even more money in an already record breaking quarter of profits. THAT is the problem. 40k People now dont have money to live on because of no other reason than corporate greed. That is just one example. People are tired of it and they will be heard.

Two things. First, why would you want to go join a protest that you admit you don't understand?

Second, Bank Of America (and other banks) did not decide to charge a monthly debit fee to line their pockets. They did it to make up for the $6.6 billion loss caused by Dodd-Frank and the Durbin amendment. So once again, the government sticks its nose it and consumers suffer. They may back off the monthly fee, but they will need to make up that loss from somewhere. Eventually, in some form, it will come from the consumers. And you and others will blame the bank, when the real culprit is the government!

 

[maddhatir]

and that is exactly why if enough people move their money OUT of the big banks and into credit unions- the banks might start getting the msg.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Two things. First, why would you want to go join a protest that you admit you don't understand?

Second, Bank Of America (and other banks) did not decide to charge a monthly debit fee to line their pockets. They did it to make up for the $6.6 billion loss caused by Dodd-Frank and the Durbin amendment. So once again, the government sticks its nose it and consumers suffer. They may back off the monthly fee, but they will need to make up that loss from somewhere. Eventually, in some form, it will come from the consumers. And you and others will blame the bank, when the real culprit is the government!

I agree with you. A tangled web, but you can see the orgins if you look.

 

[Acklander]

I think that it might work better if the cause had spokespersons. You can't expect a meeting when you show up as a mob.

And you don't think people have tried to arrange meetings to go over their concerns??? Again, this isn't an either/or type thing. There are many angry people trying many different things to allow their voice to be heard. Currently, the only thing that is getting their attention is the OWS, so they've been able to accomplish what many citizens haven't been able to do - and that is have the politicians who work for us, take notice.
The bankers and the 1% can look down on the protesters, they can call them dirty hippies, they can donate millions to the police to have them arrested, they can roll their eyes, put on a smug look and say they're just jealous, they can have the news stations they own post unflattering photos, they can piss on them all they want, but what they can't do is take away the right to protest. And that pisses them off. So yes, this has accomplished much more than a civilized meeting and a strongly worded letter of complaint ever could.

 

[moburg]

and that is exactly why if enough people move their money OUT of the big banks and into credit unions- the banks might start getting the msg.

Yep, and that way is the FREE MARKET way to express an opinion against a companies way of doing business. And other than the Nov 5 Bank Transfer Day, OWS seems to be about bigger government, non-free market solutions. Tax them more. Regulate them more, etc.

 

[Acklander]

Second, Bank Of America (and other banks) did not decide to charge a monthly debit fee to line their pockets. They did it to make up for the $6.6 billion loss caused by Dodd-Frank and the Durbin amendment. So once again, the government sticks its nose it and consumers suffer. They may back off the monthly fee, but they will need to make up that loss from somewhere. Eventually, in some form, it will come from the consumers. And you and others will blame the bank, when the real culprit is the government!

Why do they need to "make up the loss" ? they have had record profits. - there is no loss. If it's such a big expense to process debit cards, how come credit unions are able to do it without Charging customers a monthly fee???
And they were more than welcome to continue charging the extra fees, As a matter of fact,they could charge a 100 month debit fee, or a 1000 a month debit card fee. they chose not to, because the customers were going elsewhere. Supply and demand. They made the decision that it was better to make some profits instead of having no customers. That wasn't the government sticking their nose in, that was a business (the bank) making a financial decision.

 

[moburg]

I can almost bet this would not have happened if it were not for the screaming. People are just sick and tired- letter and phone calls do not work- if they did- obviously, our country would not be in the mess it is in! When I write a letter I get a BS form letter back from the Congressman I wrote it to. They don't care about your letters.

This is a very small step- but at least it is a step forward.

Boulder Votes for a Constitutional Amendment to Abolish Corporate Personhood
http://movetoamend.org/news/boulder-votes-constitutional-amendment-abolish-corporate-personhood

Are they also going to abolish union "personhood"? Or since the roots of Citizen's United was Hollywood, what about Hollywood "personhood"?

Get rid of all non-individual "personhood" and I'm with you. Thats the ideal solution in my opinion. Keep it for some and not others, no thanks.

 

[eliza61]

Why do they need to "make up the loss" ? they have had record profits. - there is no loss. If it's such a big expense to process debit cards, how come credit unions are able to do it without Charging customers a monthly fee???
And they were more than welcome to continue charging the extra fees, As a matter of fact,they could charge a 100 month debit fee, or a 1000 a month debit card fee. they chose not to, because the customers were going elsewhere. Supply and demand. They made the decision that it was better to make some profits instead of having no customers. That wasn't the government sticking their nose in, that was a business (the bank) making a financial decision.

Bingo. first no one ever ask how the dodd legislation came about. It came about because Merchants (stores) went screaming to congress because the big banks were raping them with fees to use credit cards. (for those who didn't know, when you have those little machines in your store or restaurant that enables you to accept cc, you pay a hefty fee). Since most merchants have to have cc accessability nowadays to stay viable banks used this as an opportunity to have a free for all.

This nonsense that they were all of a sudden not able to operate profitably is garbage. Now that they consumer has decided they aren't going to tolerate their crap, how much you want to bet they will some how find a way to operate?

 

[Acklander]

I wish all companies could rely on making everything in this country but the unions have made that impossible. They've driven up the cost of wages and benefits to the point where companies can't afford those workers anymore. At one time unions served their purpose but not any more. Why should a unionized auto worker who installs seats all day make more than a teacher who has a college degree?

Seriously??? They can't afford the workers anymore because the workers are competing with communist wages. A communist country has a much lower cost of operation because they don't need to make a profit for the stockholders. They're communist. What i wonder is why a corporation, who is shoving the "socialism and communism is evil, and all hail the free market" is out sourcing to communist countries. If you're going to be using socialist or communist labor, then hand your profits over to the government like they do. If you want a capitalist company, then pay fair wages. You shouldn't be allowed to have it both ways.

 

[Muslickz]

Obviously a heated discussion. I'm all for the separation of Government and big business. With unemployment levels at those of the great depression somethings got to change.

Big business get's bailed out.. but what about small business? Do they get bail outs?

I wish I could afford to buy a congressman

-M

 

[JDUCKY]

I can almost bet this would not have happened if it were not for the screaming. People are just sick and tired- letter and phone calls do not work- if they did- obviously, our country would not be in the mess it is in! When I write a letter I get a BS form letter back from the Congressman I wrote it to. They don't care about your letters.

This is a very small step- but at least it is a step forward.

Boulder Votes for a Constitutional Amendment to Abolish Corporate Personhood
http://movetoamend.org/news/boulder-votes-constitutional-amendment-abolish-corporate-personhood

125 years of damage was done...going to take a while to undo but that's a great start!!

 

[eliza61]

You mention taking part in Civil Rights marches a lot. I must admit that I thought that you would too young to be a part of that. That aside, I don't see that as the same as this at all. People have the fundamental right to be treated the same as anyone else. This is a case where people in general are poorly treated but the causes are so complex and intertwined that it's hard to see where the root of the problem is.

Either way, it would be gratifying to see representation at caucauses and primaries. I see that as way more valuable than some encampments and marches.

I was very young. My mom was a civil rights attorney in Tennse (she was born in knoxville and my grandparents lived in Nashville). She spent most of my youth schepling us down south to register blacks to vote and then bailing them out of jail when they were arrested for doing so.

My dad was a Sargent in the segregated army. He won the purple heart in Korea and then could not even take a train from NJ were he was stationed to SC where my paternal grandparents lived. He organized African American service men to boycott any town that would not let Black G.I's enter through the front door.

LOL unfortunately or fortunately I grew up in a family of people who marched, protested and boycotted regularly. Let's just say meal times with the evening news was never dull in my household.

Ironically they would probably consider themselves very conservative. They beat the mantra of working hard for what you wanted and saving for a rainy day.
I guess thats why I hate when people try to portray activist as lazy moochers. My parents were probably the hardest working folks their entire lives and spent a great deal of their lives trying to better the lives of the poor.

Both are deceased but They would have probably loved OWS.

 

[Disneyliscious]

AGREE AGREE AGREE!!!! Well said!

The above quote was agreeing on the comment prior of:

Originally Posted by Nina1
Couldn't have said it better myself. Additionally, I wonder if any of these people ever got a job from a poor man. Oh wait a minute...they're not interested in working. Only criticizing those who do while trying to figure out a way to have those who work pay for their Starbucks. Give me a break. Quit whining, get a job and quit sponging off the rest of us. I'm so sick and tired of this entitlement mentality. If they are so interested in a nanny state, find a way to move to England or Cuba or the like and leave the rest of us who want to be in control of our lives and work to achieve our dreams alone. They are an embarrassment to our great country.

I am in utter dis-belief that people like this even exist. They have no compassion, are not in touch with reality, and don't even know what they are speaking about. In fact, the comment is SO over the top, Im going to assume the poster was needing attention and doesn't even believe what they actually wrote.

 

[moburg]

Why do they need to "make up the loss" ? they have had record profits. - there is no loss. If it's such a big expense to process debit cards, how come credit unions are able to do it without Charging customers a monthly fee???
And they were more than welcome to continue charging the extra fees, As a matter of fact,they could charge a 100 month debit fee, or a 1000 a month debit card fee. they chose not to, because the customers were going elsewhere. Supply and demand. They made the decision that it was better to make some profits instead of having no customers. That wasn't the government sticking their nose in, that was a business (the bank) making a financial decision.

Banks were charging a fee to merchants for each debit card use. Dodd-Frank and the Durbin Amendment changed that, costing the banks billions in income. That is a fact. So yes, the loss of income is a direct result of government intervention.

BofA may have had $6.2 billion in profits in the 3rd quarter, but that does not even make up for the $8.8 billion LOSS they had in the 2nd quarter. 1st quarter was only a $2 billion profit, so they are still operating at a loss for the year. Gee, now why would they want to make up at least some of the $6.6 billion loss due to Dodd-Frank-Durbin? I can't imagine why!

 

[moburg]

Bingo. first no one ever ask how the dodd legislation came about. It came about because Merchants (stores) went screaming to congress because the big banks were raping them with fees to use credit cards. (for those who didn't know, when you have those little machines in your store or restaurant that enables you to accept cc, you pay a hefty fee). Since most merchants have to have cc accessability nowadays to stay viable banks used this as an opportunity to have a free for all.

This nonsense that they were all of a sudden not able to operate profitably is garbage. Now that they consumer has decided they aren't going to tolerate their crap, how much you want to bet they will some how find a way to operate?

Except of course, that BofA is currently at a $600 million loss for the year. We'll see how they do in the 4th quarter, but without that $6.6 billion that Dodd-Frank-Durbin stripped from them, its going to be more difficult to turn a profit. And what happens then? New fees or charges somewhere else, or a loss of thousands of more jobs they can no longer afford.