Am I missing something? Can't see how DVC wouldn't work..

[fearthisinc]

Ok.. So I was brought up a Disney kid since I was about 5 years old.. We take trips to Disney about 4 or 5 times a year.. My parents purchased a Florida home that is about 40 minutes away from Disney.. 30 if you drive fast lol.. It is nice to fly down and not have to pay room rental fees, however we do miss the resort atmosphere and being on Disney property.. Being that my fiancé and I are looking to start our family I want Disney to be part of their life as it was for me.. With that in mind we looked at the open house for the vacation club.. We were offered the Grand Floridian at 165 per point (YIKES).. We love the Grand Floridian Rooms and we figured how we would want to vacation.. We figure break the trips in half and do two trips on Disney property and two trips at the family home that is further away.. Anyway.. I just did online reservations for the two time frames that we would vacation and at which hotels we would stay at (Grand Floridian in December and Beach Club in the summer).. On the points schedule it comes out to about 208 points.. If I book online it looks like the rates for those seasons would cost about 6,000 including taxes.. Granted I am sure I can get some better rates with specials and online hunting, I might be able to get the price down to maybe 4,000 (if I am lucky and not including any inflation for future years)..

So with those numbers here is how I see the prices:

Cash Rate each year = 4k times 50 years (no inflation) = 200,000

Vacation Club = 34,320 up front (208 points/165per point) + 56250 (1125 Annual dues no inflation) = 90,570

Unless I am missing something it looks like I would save at minimum 110,000.. I know this is also assuming that I always vacation at Disney, however I don't see us going anywhere else.. Especially for family oriented vacations.. Granted that once kids hit a certain age they may not want to vacation to Disney but you can still use the points for cruises or places like Vero beach.. or maybe even Hawaii..

Maybe someone has more insight but every way I run the numbers it always comes back in favor of the vacation club.. I can't seem to find a way that it doesn't work..

 

[DougEMG]

There is the time value of money which is basically that a dollar today is not the same as a dollar 50 years from now. MF also go up every year and usually more than inflation. Combine those two and your financial comparison is really apples to oranges.

Buying DVC direct is a very expensive route and is going to take a very long time before you break even.

 

[Nicoleinwi]

I assume going that often you have an AP? If you aren't a FL resident by owning DVC your AP is $160 less per adult. So that is even more savings to make the deal sweeter . Dvc had a promo earlier this year when savings was been greater.

I basically did the same math as you to make sure it made sense financially. But I figured I'd want to make sure it make sense financially to pay to only use until we'd be about 65. So I just extended out costs that far. Figured after that if we still enjoyed Disney it'd be great we have. But if we didn't enjoy Disney as much then as we do now we could sell. We don't have children so we wouldn't have grandkids to take later in life. I also did not use the Disney rate at a comparable resort. I used the rate at a moderate minus 20%. I used moderate because that's what we usually stay at. We have never paid cash to stay at a resort in a higher level then a moderate and I can't foresee us doing so, so that's why I based upon the category we stay at. You want to stay at GF so your comparison seems accurate.

 

[Dean]

Ok.. So I was brought up a Disney kid since I was about 5 years old.. We take trips to Disney about 4 or 5 times a year.. My parents purchased a Florida home that is about 40 minutes away from Disney.. 30 if you drive fast lol.. It is nice to fly down and not have to pay room rental fees, however we do miss the resort atmosphere and being on Disney property.. Being that my fiancé and I are looking to start our family I want Disney to be part of their life as it was for me.. With that in mind we looked at the open house for the vacation club.. We were offered the Grand Floridian at 165 per point (YIKES).. We love the Grand Floridian Rooms and we figured how we would want to vacation.. We figure break the trips in half and do two trips on Disney property and two trips at the family home that is further away.. Anyway.. I just did online reservations for the two time frames that we would vacation and at which hotels we would stay at (Grand Floridian in December and Beach Club in the summer).. On the points schedule it comes out to about 208 points.. If I book online it looks like the rates for those seasons would cost about 6,000 including taxes.. Granted I am sure I can get some better rates with specials and online hunting, I might be able to get the price down to maybe 4,000 (if I am lucky and not including any inflation for future years)..

So with those numbers here is how I see the prices:

Cash Rate each year = 4k times 50 years (no inflation) = 200,000

Vacation Club = 34,320 up front (208 points/165per point) + 56250 (1125 Annual dues no inflation) = 90,570

Unless I am missing something it looks like I would save at minimum 110,000.. I know this is also assuming that I always vacation at Disney, however I don't see us going anywhere else.. Especially for family oriented vacations.. Granted that once kids hit a certain age they may not want to vacation to Disney but you can still use the points for cruises or places like Vero beach.. or maybe even Hawaii..

Maybe someone has more insight but every way I run the numbers it always comes back in favor of the vacation club.. I can't seem to find a way that it doesn't work..

Comparing a studio to a deluxe and buying resale it should save you money. You're still making several mistakes though at this point it appears. You're using rack rates, you're assuming deluxe which might not be accurate if you pay cash, you're looking to buy more for future needs, you're not including the time value of money. You're also assuming the same visit pattern which is unlikely to be the case. At the end of the day you'd still likely come out resale compared to deluxe but not nearly as much as your numbers suggest.

 

[crisi]

The bigger issue is that you are young - you are talking about kids you don't even have yet.

It is possible that you already have a great high paying career, and are married to someone with a high paying career. Or that you will inherit a lot of money. Or have other resources. (All three of those were our case when we bought). But before you plan for vacations, make sure you think about college for those kids you haven't had yet. Make sure you are planning for retirement. Those things come so much faster than you think they will. My daughter is almost 15 - it will cost more than $100k to put her through state school - and as high earners, we won't get financial aid. She can't take out enough loans to pay for full time school - if we didn't save, she'd be going to school part time or we'd have to take out loans. We are "lucking out" with my sixteen year old son - he wants trade school which will be more affordable.

We won't starve during retirement - having saved a lot of money for our working careers (with two decades to go) - but at this point it would be really nice to retire early (I already sort of have - at least I'm on sabbatical).

Kids get expensive - my son had $25k in expenses before he even arrived. They are definitely worth it (at least most days, all parents have days where they wish for a return counter) - but you might - and I don't know your finances - find yourself giving up annual Deluxe Disney vacations in order to afford daycare, private school, traveling soccer, and braces. That becomes harder once you have a timeshare at Disney.

At this age - 14 and 15 - we are lucky if we can get our kids on a schedule that allows one week of vacation as a family - next year it isn't going to happen - between school and sports and activities and other commitments - there isn't a clear week in 52 to have all four of us in the same place away from home. Last year we managed Spring Break - and my daughter and I traveled this Summer - my husband and son stayed home for baseball. And my kids are lightly scheduled kids - we didn't start this commitment nonsense until high school. I have plenty of friends whose kids haven't been able to miss a practice since second grade.

 

[HokieGCC]

This is a very well documented debate here and you may want to read and find those posts that did the analysis.

I will go out on a limb in what is generally accepted:
- DVC can only save you money when you compare with Deluxe resorts (in other words ... staying at Moderates will be less costly)
- If you don't borrow and buy resale you can save some money

Less widely accepted but I believe is true.
- If you don't borrow and buy resale your breakeven point is somewhere in the 8-10 year time frame. It is important however that you know your plans well and buy to match. Otherwise, DVC will cost yo more.

Even less widely accepted but I also believe true.
- DVC can save you some money but a "huge" savings is not possible. Disney would not loose large sums of money to attract steady Disney goers (check the crowds if you think they are need some great deal to get people there).
- I believe the numbers prove that yo can't get a "huge" saving. Some yes, but huge no.

 

[McCrae]

The comments here IMO are over complicating things. If you have any concerns about your financial future and your ability to take regular holidays at Disney it is probably worth avoiding DVC.... Though you could always rent out your points to cover your annual dues if circumstances change.

If you have no concerns regarding your financial position it's worth buying.

Disney by getting your cash up front to pay for your holiday regards this as a great deal. It reduces the company's funding costs and locks in through your annual dues the costs of maintaining the resort..... What we pay when we get to the resort is the extra profit margin for Disney. We are worth more to Disney than other non DVC customers and that is why we get a better deal.

 

[staceymay00]

I don't think it makes sense comparing DVC to deluxe resort rack rates unless you truly are going to pay those rates when you visit. Prior to buying DVC we stayed at deluxe resorts because we needed sleeping space for five, however we never paid rack rate. Typically we had discounts of around 40%, so that is the cost I compared to owning DVC. We are not really saving money with DVC compared to what we were paying before buying DVC; however because we bought resale and did not finance we now get a 2BR villa instead of a hotel room for about the same cost as our discounted deluxe resort rooms.

Another thing, fifty years is a really long time. I suggest comparing costs over a shorter timeframe, like 10 years. How much will you have spent on DVC in ten years compared to renting points or booking a hotel room each stay? Personally I would not want to spend a whole lot more money for Disney trips the first 10-15 years in order to save some money 10-15 years from now, but that is a personal decision everyone has to make for themselves. I do think it is worth putting your costs in a spreadsheet and comparing cumulative costs from year 1 through year 10, 15, etc.

We already had kids when we bought DVC, yet just five years later our vacation habits have changed more than I anticipated. We still love Disney but are not going as much as we used to. It is more difficult to schedule family vacations now that my two oldest are middle and high school, and there are other things we like to do. None of us want Disney trips multiple times a year anymore. I'm very glad we did not buy more points than we did - what we have is perfect for a four day trip every year or a week long trip every other year. I am very glad we did not finance because we only have our annual fees to pay each year, which seems a reasonable amount for every other year trips to Disney. Speaking of cost, Disney trips get really expensive with kids once you are buying each child a ticket, and once they are 10 and you are paying adult prices for food.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[disneynutz]

The comments here IMO are over complicating things. If you have any concerns about your financial future and your ability to take regular holidays at Disney it is probably worth avoiding DVC.... Though you could always rent out your points to cover your annual dues if circumstances change.

If you have no concerns regarding your financial position it's worth buying.

Disney by getting your cash up front to pay for your holiday regards this as a great deal. It reduces the company's funding costs and locks in through your annual dues the costs of maintaining the resort..... What we pay when we get to the resort is the extra profit margin for Disney. We are worth more to Disney than other non DVC customers and that is why we get a better deal.

Important to note that the better deal includes paying a high price to use your points for anything other than a DVC stay, using dues money to pay for events that you may not attend like the yearly Christmas parities or association meeting and that DVC owners tend to increase their number of Disney vacations. 50% of DVD sales are existing owners buying an additional contract.

Bill

 

[fromscratchmom]

Perhaps I've made some mistake, not being much of a math person but every time I come back to dreaming of DVC it appears that I can do Disney cheaper without DVC. On the other hand, I do keep coming back to the idea...repeatedly...and for years now, (browsing this board today for instance).

I wonder if the value of DVC is really in other things besides the the strict numbers comparisons.

I have a strong sense that in the long run I'd take more Disney vacations and be glad of it if I bought into DVC. And on top of that having a kitchen and at the same time being on property would mean a LOT to me. Right now I'm not even sure if I can travel with kitchen-less hotel situations at all. I've cancelled or avoided a lot of trips over the last couple of years because of that, trips I wanted, trips I otherwise would have taken if not for my food and health concerns. Basically if one or two things were to change in my personal circumstance I think I'd do it despite the numbers comparisons. Is that crazy?

Plus maybe I'll be in a situation to arrange Disney for grandchildren someday in the not too distant future. lol

 

[disneynutz]

Perhaps I've made some mistake, not being much of a math person but every time I come back to dreaming of DVC it appears that I can do Disney cheaper without DVC. On the other hand, I do keep coming back to the idea...repeatedly...and for years now, (browsing this board today for instance).

I wonder if the value of DVC is really in other things besides the the strict numbers comparisons.

I have a strong sense that in the long run I'd take more Disney vacations and be glad of it if I bought into DVC. And on top of that having a kitchen and at the same time being on property would mean a LOT to me. Right now I'm not even sure if I can travel with kitchen-less hotel situations at all. I've cancelled or avoided a lot of trips over the last couple of years because of that, trips I wanted, trips I otherwise would have taken if not for my food and health concerns. Basically if one or two things were to change in my personal circumstance I think I'd do it despite the numbers comparisons. Is that crazy?

Plus maybe I'll be in a situation to arrange Disney for grandchildren someday in the not too distant future. lol

You need to look at the DVC room/resort amenities, location, view, and cost to see if it works for you. Don't get caught up in Disney's advertising or the comments and reviews that you may read. The only thing that is important is your wants and needs.

My latest position is to suggest that you buy a ownership and give DVC a try. Later after staying at all of the resorts and experiencing the inner workings of the DVC, you can either buy at your favorite resort and sell your test contract, keep the test contract and buy your favorite resort, or sell the test contract and stay somewhere else.

Bill

 

[fromscratchmom]

Thanks for your input! I will definitely consider that. I know I'm leaning towards it on an "I want it level". But of course I also have a few things about my own family and our circumstances to consider to make sure it could be ok for us to spend that money and to commit to DVC vacations.

 

[HokieGCC]

Perhaps I've made some mistake, not being much of a math person but every time I come back to dreaming of DVC it appears that I can do Disney cheaper without DVC. On the other hand, I do keep coming back to the idea...repeatedly...and for years now, (browsing this board today for instance).

I wonder if the value of DVC is really in other things besides the the strict numbers comparisons.

I have a strong sense that in the long run I'd take more Disney vacations and be glad of it if I bought into DVC.

I think you hit the nail on the head and explained something I really didn't fully appreciate.

Although after tons of analysis I have concluded that DVC is not a huge savings. It is also certainly not a bad deal. So ... by buying into DVC you have all but guaranteed a lifetime of Disney vacations...which is pretty cool. The big initial payment is behind you and from now on your Disney costs will be less than if you didn't buy-in making those vacations in the future much easier therefore more likely - satisfying a goal for yearly family treks to Disney.

It is not a whole lot different than our other goals. There are a zillion ways to save for college, retirement, a house etc. You couldn't possibly to get people to agree on THE best way to go. However, getting there is what is important not necessarily the path.

 

[jodifla]

You can definitely do Disney cheaper than with DVC, but you can't do it as well without spending a lot more money. (And as well, I mean staying on property.)

We bought as DINKS 18 years. We even (the horror!) financed and bought directly from DVC. We had it paid off in 5 years, and we just switched the cash we were already spending at Disney to pay it off, so we didn't really feel the payments.

Now, with a child and 1.5 incomes, we high-five ourselves every time we walk into OKW or Vero or BCV or the like. DVC is more than triple what we paid for it, we only have our dues, which we find very manageable, and we love staying in 1 and 2 bedrooms. And staying at a Grand Villa was a treat that family members still talk about almost 15 years later.

We routinely invite our friends to join us, and just have a blast. No way would we be able to do that without DVC. We routinely get annual passes, to twice or three times, then take a year off.

Last year, we even decided to use our points for a Disney cruise. It was only a few hundred over what we would have paid in cash, and it was worth it to just book with Member Services and be done with it. We combined that with a OKW stay and a trip to Universal and Blizzard Beach. It made for a very reasonable vacation over our Spring Break, particularly because we also had 2 free plane tickets.

We have 206 points, and spend them pretty easily. We don't feel overburdened by them. Only once have we had any trouble using all our points.

OP, you might want to get your feet wet with a resale. The Grand Floridian is nice, but it's expensive. Then you would be able to gauge better if it will fit into your lifestyle.

 

[mrsmarilyn]

Is it ever cost effective to buy direct from Disney at this point? I can see a future where we would want to stay at non-DVC Disney Resorts a time or two, go on a cruise, travel to non-Disney properties domestic and internationally. Right now the price between Disney and Secondary GF is pretty small.

I also would rather get 4 small contracts, to divide between my children down the road.

But the cost savings of secondary are substantial.

I worry about having both Disney and secondary points, and trying to keep it all straight (I'm still struggling with picking a Use Year, I have the hardest time with that entire concept.)

Looking at what we've spent on Disney in the last 10 years -- we always stay in Deluxe resorts -- I would think this is more cost-effective long run for us.

I also wonder if we can't use points, is it easy to "rent" them out?

So many concerns....

 

[Dean]

You can definitely do Disney cheaper than with DVC, but you can't do it as well without spending a lot more money. (And as well, I mean staying on property.)

Not necessarily correct. One can always rent, it's not that much more than owning. It has plusses and minuses but is viable for many. I've just finished a full week (checked out today) for two 2BR units that were certainly much cheaper. Owning is still the best for most people if they only want to do Disney, stay on property, etc.; but there are other reasonable options for many. Plus many are just as happy not staying on property and some prefer it.

 

[disneynutz]

Is it ever cost effective to buy direct from Disney at this point? I can see a future where we would want to stay at non-DVC Disney Resorts a time or two, go on a cruise, travel to non-Disney properties domestic and internationally. Right now the price between Disney and Secondary GF is pretty small.

I also would rather get 4 small contracts, to divide between my children down the road.

But the cost savings of secondary are substantial.

I worry about having both Disney and secondary points, and trying to keep it all straight (I'm still struggling with picking a Use Year, I have the hardest time with that entire concept.)

Looking at what we've spent on Disney in the last 10 years -- we always stay in Deluxe resorts -- I would think this is more cost-effective long run for us.

I also wonder if we can't use points, is it easy to "rent" them out?

So many concerns....

IMO the DVC resale restrictions and buying direct are like the DDP. You can usually save money by not buying the DDP or using your points for anything outside of DVC stays, but people still buy the DDP and use their points just because or they like the convenience or other personal reasons.

You assume the your children will want a DVC contract down the road, maybe they will or maybe they won't.

UY - pick an 8 month period when you will vacation at Disney the most. We enjoy the cooler months and would never vacation in the heat, so we vacation between October and May. Our UY is October and if be need to cancel our vacation during those months, we can bank our points and save them.

We have used the free UY insurance twice so far, when we had a death in the family and when DW was forced by her job to relocate to another city. Could we have just scheduled a latter vacation within the UY, sure, but we didn't want to and we didn't have to worry about finding someone to rent our points.

Bill

 

[jodifla]

Not necessarily correct. One can always rent, it's not that much more than owning. It has plusses and minuses but is viable for many. I've just finished a full week (checked out today) for two 2BR units that were certainly much cheaper. Owning is still the best for most people if they only want to do Disney, stay on property, etc.; but there are other reasonable options for many. Plus many are just as happy not staying on property and some prefer it.

To me, "as well" also means controlling my destiny, which you don't do (IMO) when you rent points. You can't cancel in most cases, which is a whole lot of money down the toilet.

 

[ToddyLu]

DVC changes your trips to Disney like a Corvette would change your drive to work.

 

[bakerworld]

I only know that for the same vacation $$ we went from 2 to 3 3/4N visits per year to 2 or 3 6/7N stays.

However, we have reduced our other vacations to one per year not sure whether that's where we make up some $$.