Alcohol at Be Our Guest

[disneydreamkate]

I am very pleased that BOG will be serving beer and wine. Our last night in WDW we always enjoy a nice meal and a glass of wine (or two) before heading to MK for Wishes and to experience our favorite attractions one last time. I am very excited that our for our upcoming trip I won't have to waste valuable park time traveling to a resort close by just to have my glass of wine. ADRs are made!

 

[JimmyV]

You know I didn't even think of the whole bottle issue...if you don't finish the bottle, are they going to re-cork it for you? Somehow I doubt it, as that would open another whole can of worms...unless they have it waiting for you at the exit gate!!

My guess is that they haven't thought that far ahead. They certainly aren't going to let you waltz out of the restaurant with the wine. Could they ship it back to your room as they might with other purchases? I suppose, but I doubt they would. If it were me and I had an unfinished bottle (which happens about as often as a Bigfoot siting), I would look around the restaurant and find what appears to be a honeymooning couple, or young couple in love and drop the bottle off at their table.

 

[Pygoplites]

Here's a link to a thread on the wine list.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2992596

There is only one sweet wine on the list: The La Fleur d'Or Sauternes. It is described on the menu as having flavors of peach and plum, but I would say that it is more in line with orange marmalade and apricot. The price per glass is fair, but the bottle price is rather high. The retail price of this wine is around $18-$20. If you notice, most wines on the list have a bottle price that is around 4.5 times the per glass price. But the La Fleur bottle price is more than 7 times the per glass price. Not sure how many people they think they are going to fool here. You are much better off getting it by the glass, even if everyone at the table is going to have some. A party of 6 can have 6 glasses for $54. Why buy a bottle at $67?

I noticed that, too. My guess is that the glass-to-bottle price difference is because the serving size is smaller than the dry wines.

 

[JimS4210]

There are some good beers on that list

What will be funny is seeing someone who doesn't know any better ordering a Chimay Blue. At 9% ABV it's got much more of a kick than a Bud or Coors Light. One good thing is they only have good beers on the menu, not the kind that you'd chug after mowing the lawn. The kind of person who'd happily kill a six-pack of Bud Light isn't gonna like the taste of a Belgian anyway... At 9-10 bucks a pop, they'll think "I can get a whole six of good beer as opposed to this fancy pants stuff..."

Jim

 

[JimmyV]

I noticed that, too. My guess is that the glass-to-bottle price difference is because the serving size is smaller than the dry wines.

True. But who drinks an 8 oz. pour of Sauternes? When Clicquot sells for $40 per bottle and is on the list for $75, why would they price an entry-level, $20 bottle of Sauternes at $67? It really does stick out as an outlier on the wine list.

 

[Pygoplites]

True. But who drinks an 8 oz. pour of Sauternes? When Clicquot sells for $40 per bottle and is on the list for $75, why would they price an entry-level, $20 bottle of Sauternes at $67? It really does stick out as an outlier on the wine list.

Did I indicated that the pour SHOULD be the same size? No. I was just pointing out that the math makes sense. But, I agree that the markup on that bottle is high. I wish they offered a better one in 375 ml. Of course, who'd have thought they'd have this AT ALL in the Magic Kingdom?

 

[JimmyV]

Did I indicated that the pour SHOULD be the same size? No. I was just pointing out that the math makes sense.

I wasn't suggesting that you indicated that. I was simply pointing out that their math is fuzzy. As a general rule of thumb for wines by the glass, you should recapture the wholesale price of the bottle with the sale of 1-2 glasses of wine. Using the Simi Cabernet as an example, the retail price is around $22. WDW no doubt pays a few bucks less. Maybe $17-$18. They are recapturing their cost with the sale of 2 glasses, and the bottle is still 2/3rds full (using 6 glasses per bottle as the norm). Meanwhile, the full bottle price is around 2.5 times retail, or 3 times wholesale. Their pricing here is right on the mark.

So now we look at the Sauternes, which sells for around $23 (using a retailer in Naples, FL as a guide). Let's assume WDW pays about that, as that price seems to be about $5-$6 lower than the national average. They should recpature the price of the bottle while the bottle remains 2/3rds full. Assume 10 generous pours per bottle. They should hit the wholesale mark after selling 3 or 4 glasses. That comes to $6-$8 per glass. If they were trying to recpature the cost of the bottle in 2 glasses as they are with the Simi, they would price the wine at $11 per glass. However, that assumes 6 pours per bottle, which is way too big a pour. So my comment was directed at them, not you. Instead, what I was saying is that BoG seems to have priced the wine in a manner consistent with pouring 6-7 glasses per bottle, trying to recapture the wholesale price fully after 2 glasses. But if your pours are half as big and you get twice as many pours per bottle, you should try to capture the purchase price after 4 or 5 glasses. 5 glasses at $9 per glass puts them way over the purchase price, hence my conclusion that the price is too high. 4 glasses at $6 per glass would seem to fit the formula of recpaturing the purchase price while having the bottle remain 2/3rds full. That's all I'm saying.

You are correct. They would be well served to offer one or more 375ml choices.

 

[southern_belle21]

Holy crap...I've been on the Dis since 2001 and this ranks in the top 5 of pissing contests. Get over it people, it's a done deal no matter if Walt wanted it or not

Well, at least my sister, and her husband will be able to enjoy their dinner a little more, since they will be able to order both beer and wine, and great atmosphere (let's hope the food is all they promise it will be...and PLEASE have creme brulee ) If they choose to hang around and have a "few more drinks" then I'll be off to ride my favs again

 

[southern_belle21]

For the record. I've never been aware of how mean people can be when discussing something like this. Yes, I've voiced my opinion, and said I am disappointed because of it. That's my personal opinion, and I thought it was okay, to tell why you like, or dislike something, but to hear some, you'd think someone had just degraded their grandmother or something. I've never heard such meanness come from so many Disney lovers!

 

[B-Ride]

As I sit here drinking my Scotch and surfing the boards I just think it is sad that people can't have a good time without alcohol. Sip, sip.....

 

[Disneychick13]

I just don't get the anger. I think if you think that the serving of alcohol in limited, or even not limited, locations/times will detract from the Disney experience/magic...you just don't get disney

 

[buffettgirl]

What will be funny is seeing someone who doesn't know any better ordering a Chimay Blue. At 9% ABV it's got much more of a kick than a Bud or Coors Light. One good thing is they only have good beers on the menu, not the kind that you'd chug after mowing the lawn. The kind of person who'd happily kill a six-pack of Bud Light isn't gonna like the taste of a Belgian anyway... At 9-10 bucks a pop, they'll think "I can get a whole six of good beer as opposed to this fancy pants stuff..."

Jim

oh hey now.. LOL. I actually enjoy some nice cheapo beer when I'm just sitting on my deck and sometimes something like miller lite goes just fine with a burger we toss on the grill - I'm not embarrassed by that at all. But, I also enjoy some really good beer as well, and we brew quite a bit of tasty beer at home too.

In short, I"ll drink any beer, provided you don't just dump hops in it, call it "crafty" and walk away. I'm an equal opportunity consumer.

 

[ImAllEars]

Wow. Just wow.

You've read about Walt and studied his life? Amazing. So have others. I have as well.

Yet I wouldn't be brash enough to claim what he WOULD and WOULDN'T want almost 50 years after his death, and only knowing him through books, documentaries and interviews. Even his own family wouldn't be likely to be that brash. They might know him well enough to guess what she would have wanted BACK THEN, but that says nothing of 2012.

He built Disneyland in a very specific fashion to distance his park from the shady reputations of state fairs and carnivals. He was wildly successful and banning alcohol sales from the park definitely played a part in that.

Now it's 2012. Society has evolved in the 50 some odd years since Disneyland opened and that cliche of an amusement park being a dirty, unsafe, unwholesome place is not nearly as prevalent as it was in Walt's days. Today you CAN have a theme park what serves alcohol that still appears clean and wholesome.

So would Walt be OK with it? Nobody knows. I don't know. You don't know. You may THINK you know, but you don't.

In any case, no business is going to continue to prosper if they stubbornly hold on to 50 year old policies put in place by a CEO who has been dead for 40 years. You prosper by taking that founders spirit and philosophy and hold onto THAT. He wanted a wholesome, clean, family park and introducing wine to a sit down dinner in ONE location does not make the Magic Kingdom any less wholesome, clean, or family friendly.

As for your views, you're certainly entitled to them, but I'm entitled to their opposition. I'm not going to try and stop you from voicing your opinion, but I'm also not going to stop myself from debunking it and opposing it. If you take that as an attack, than so be it.

Side note: I hope for the sake of consistency that you're strongly opposed to the rest of Walt Disney World. After all, anybody who has studied him as much as you would know that WDW as it exists today is VERY different from that he had planned it to be, and if your problem is that this goes against Walt's wishes well... so does the rest of WDW.

Furthermore, your thoughts that this will lead to alcohol being all over the park is a fallacy. It's a slippery slope with no evidence to support it. In other words, it's entirely speculative. As is your assumption that a man (any man, not just Walt) wouldn't change their views on an issue over the course of half of a century.

Lastly, you're likely getting singled out because of the pompous nature of your posts. Acting like your word holds more weight because you've "studied" Walt (which I can only assume means you've read a lot of books and seen a lot of documentaries on him.) is what puts you in the sights of other posters.

Bravo, sir.. very well said.

 

[Waltgirl]

I think everything you just said says far more about your own attitudes regarding alcohol than anything else. The fact that you avoid any restaurant that has a bar severely limits the places where you must eat as most restaurants (other than...cracker barrel?) have alcohol and bars. Most restaurants at WDW have sub par food as well - do you avoid them?

Now, there is nothing wrong with having those attitudes, for yourself, and for your family, but expecting others to uphold this very very narrow view of alcohol is a bit unrealistic.

If BOG bothers you because someone might be drinking near you, then stay away from it. If the policies of WDW bother you, stay away. It's really that simple.

Thanks for your response. I am sure my post does speak of my attitude towards exposing children towards drunk people. Nothing good comes from over imbibing. People lose their inhibitions and self control. They urinate in public (mostly the men-haha), trip over strollers, fall into people, act rude and obnoxious, vomit and disturb other guests' meal/vacation/sleep/good time/whatever. It is not a "very, very narrow view," it is more common than I'm sure you realize. Sadly, as a guest of WDW I am sometimes a prisoner of my own surroundings and yes, we eat mediocre food while we are there. That said, we also drink alcohol but that doesn't change my opinion that this will likely change the atmosphere at the MK.

Edited to add: why do people find it strange to want to follow the express wishes of founder of the company who has only been gone since the 60's but think we should follow the exact words of the Constitution that were written 200+ years, or the Bible written even longer ago?

 

[JimmyV]

Thanks for your response. I am sure my post does speak of my attitude towards exposing children towards drunk people. Nothing good comes from over imbibing. People lose their inhibitions and self control. They urinate in public (mostly the men-haha), trip over strollers, fall into people, act rude and obnoxious, vomit and disturb other guests' meal/vacation/sleep/good time/whatever.

Can we please keep this discussion grounded in the change to allow limited quantities of beer and wine at BoG during the dinner hours only? Otherwise, the discussion falls off the rails, gets too personal, and ends up having nothing whatsoever to do with WDW and addresses alcohol in society in general. And when that happens, the mods will step in and close the discussion. For good reason.

So....with that introduction, Waltgirl, is it really your opinion that the extremely small number of adults with ADRs at BoG, (less than 1% of all people in the park), who choose to drink beer or wine at a dinner with a two drink limit will lead to:

drunk people;
over imbibing;
loss of inhibitions;
loss of self control;
urinating in public
tripping over strollers;
falling into people;
acting rude, and obnoxious;
vomiting ; and/or
disturbing other guests' meal/vacation/sleep/good time?

Because if you do, then you must have access to a whole different set of data than most of the world when it comes to the impact of two glasses of beer and/or wine (with alcohol percentages of between 5%-14%). And if you don't really think that two beers or two glasses of wine leads to all of this mayhem, then why bring it up? Why the hyperbole? If you want to start a thread about Epcot during F&W, or Ragland Road on St. Patrick's Day, fine. Have at it. But there is absolutely no reason to believe that the newly minted rules for BoG will have any impact on the atmosphere of the park whatsoever. If you went to WDW last month and did not notice any measurable degradation in the atmosphere of the MK from the guests who had dinner at places that have no two drink limit such as Citricos and/or the California Grill ,who then headed over to the MK after dinner, then you will not notice any degradation in the atmosphere from the similar number of people who dine at BoG and enjoy a glass of Burgundy with said dinner.

If your argument is one of zero tolerance because that is what you believe Walt Disney wanted, then fine. That is a rational basis to resist change. But a fear that the MK is going to turn into Sodom is simply not supported by any facts, because many, many people who roam around the MK after 5:00 pm now, (and since the ribbon was cut in 1971), have done so after a couple of drinks obtained at resort bars or restaurants. The extra 200 adults to whom BoG serves beer and wine each night are not going to change what you have already been witnessing. If a person is allowed to return to the MK after having a drink at Citrico's, why shouldn't a person be allowed to enjoy the MK after having a drink at BoG?

 

[Tanyabeth8]

I do 90% of those things sober. Wanna coincide our trips ;p

 

[JimS4210]

oh hey now.. LOL. I actually enjoy some nice cheapo beer when I'm just sitting on my deck and sometimes something like miller lite goes just fine with a burger we toss on the grill - I'm not embarrassed by that at all. But, I also enjoy some really good beer as well, and we brew quite a bit of tasty beer at home too.

In short, I"ll drink any beer, provided you don't just dump hops in it, call it "crafty" and walk away. I'm an equal opportunity consumer.

Not trying to be a beer snob at all . Just that people used to drinking BMC will be awfully surprised at how fast a good Belgian can sneak up on you.


Jim

 

[southern_belle21]

Husband and I were just talking about the reasoning behind serving alcoholic beverages in MK. I pointed out that CRT has been the only Signature dining in all of MK, and it's remained 'dry" for how many years? DH said that he thinks Disney has been wanting to add the alcohol to MK for a long time (because of the $$$ it will make), and is using BoG as the front of the reasoning behind it. Just makes you wonder.

 

[JimmyV]

DH said that he thinks Disney has been wanting to add the alcohol to MK for a long time (because of the $$$ it will make), and is using BoG as the front of the reasoning behind it. Just makes you wonder.

I agree with the first half of his conclusion, but not the second half. I think that they have been mulling (no pun intended) this idea in conjunction with adding to or upgrading the TS quality at some locations. Frankly, Champagne, wine and beer makes perfect sense at CRT for dinner. Perhaps as a "meet me half way" approach, they could have alcohol-free dinner there from 4:00-6:30, and serve alcohol with dinner after 6:30. That way, the little snowflakes who have to go through life with blinders on, never obseving adults consuming alcohol can dine without fear.

As for the $$$ aspect, the numbers just don't add up. You can't just look at the price of a glass of wine ($8-$12). You have to look at the delta between that glass of wine (or beer) and the beverage it would have replaced. If you would have had a $4 soft drink, and instead have a $9 glass of wine, the income difference is only $5. Multiply that by the fairly small number of people who secure ADRs at BoG; who are adults; and who choose to drink beer or wine, and you have a pretty small number. Sure. It's greater than zero. But no one is going to be getting rich off of serving this limited amount of alcohol. Besides, soft drinks are practically free and the profit margin is almost 100%. The markup and profit on beer and wine is much less, percentage-wise. If WDW buys a beer for $1.50 and sells it for $6.25, it makes $4.75. If WDW sells a Coke for $4, it makes about $3.90 (assuming it is coming from a soda fountain). The limited number of potential sales coupled with the relatively small difference in profit margin makes it hard to conclude that $$$ is the driving factor here. Now, the day you start to see hard liquor sales or beer carts strewn all over the MK, then I will agree wholeheatedly that $$$ is at play. That is where the big bucks are, because the profit margin on liquor is huge, and the sales from beverage carts are not necessarily replacing a soft drink. The sale could be in addition to, and not instead of, some alternative beverage.

 

[mdsoccermom]

Thanks for your response. I am sure my post does speak of my attitude towards exposing children towards drunk people. Nothing good comes from over imbibing. People lose their inhibitions and self control. They urinate in public (mostly the men-haha), trip over strollers, fall into people, act rude and obnoxious, vomit and disturb other guests' meal/vacation/sleep/good time/whatever. It is not a "very, very narrow view," it is more common than I'm sure you realize. Sadly, as a guest of WDW I am sometimes a prisoner of my own surroundings and yes, we eat mediocre food while we are there. That said, we also drink alcohol but that doesn't change my opinion that this will likely change the atmosphere at the MK.

Edited to add: why do people find it strange to want to follow the express wishes of founder of the company who has only been gone since the 60's but think we should follow the exact words of the Constitution that were written 200+ years, or the Bible written even longer ago?

I findit strange that you would put the words of Walt Disney on the same level as the Constitution and the Bible. Our government is based on the Constitution - kind of important. The founders designed the Constitution to be a fluid document open to interpretation since they knew our society would change and evolve. That's why it has been interpreted and amended over time.

No one is forced to literally adhere to the words in the bible. If they were, we wouldn't be wearing blended fabrics.

It's not unreasonable to think Walt would have changed his attitudes.