Airline overweight passenger charges

[Hannathy]

But in all reality??? Complaining about having to pay for a second seat, just because you are larger, is about the same as families saying WDW is biased against larger families...costs more for a room for a family of 6 than a family of 4.

Wellllll, believe it or not there was a thread saying just this on one of the other forums. That Disney was biased against larger families than 4 because their rooms cost more. So no I don't think "people" get it at all. That if you take up more room it should cost you be it a hotel room or an airline seat. they just want to jump on the "you are picking on me" bandwagon.

 

[goofy4tink]

Wellllll, believe it or not there was a thread saying just this on one of the other forums. That Disney was biased against larger families than 4 because their rooms cost more. So no I don't think "people" get it at all. That if you take up more room it should cost you be it a hotel room or an airline seat. they just want to jump on the "you are picking on me" bandwagon.

Oh, I know about those threads...they drive me crazy.

 

[dawnhaze]

Threads like this make me want to drag my fat-but-fits-in-one-seat self onto planes more regularly just so I can annoy fat-shamers by existing

 

[k&a&c'smom]

....you will only be guaranteed to get that extra space that you "need" if you purchase it! If you buy 2 seats - you will get 2 seats next to each other - and both are yours to sit in. Another passenger will not use your space. Your cost is double, but you can be comfortably seated and not worry about crowding anyone else.

What if the flight is oversold? I've read a lot of reports of plus-size guests having to relinquish the extra empty seat if oversold, so it's not exactly guaranteed if that is indeed the case.

I am sincerely curious about the answer. Since you work as a gate agent, I thought you'd be the one to ask.

 

[vacationclub]

I was also wondering what happens if there are no extra seats on the plane and a passenger is asked to buy one after they get on. Are they simply kicked off at that point? And, if there are stand-by passengers in the gate area, do they try to sell that seat to someone else at the last second?

As to the so-called "fat-bashing", I haven't seen one post after reading this entire thread that even remotely qualifies as "fat bashing". I believe that posts that even remotely resemble that description were simply in response to other posts that were calling for....I guess you could say...."non-fat bashing", or "please feel sorry for me because I'm fat". (paraphrasing obviously). It's to be assumed that at some point in these conversations people are going to discuss other people's responsibility for their size. That's all I see here.

Yes, the OP asked a question. It's been addressed. Does that mean others engaging in the thread can't elaborate between themselves on tangential issues?

 

[Maleficent53]

What if the flight is oversold? I've read a lot of reports of plus-size guests having to relinquish the extra empty seat if oversold, so it's not exactly guaranteed if that is indeed the case.

I am sincerely curious about the answer. Since you work as a gate agent, I thought you'd be the one to ask.

If a flight is oversold that extra seat remains empty (for the exclusive use of the person who purchased it) UNLESS they agree to give up that seat in exchange for compensation. I have had this happen in the past....a person who purchased 2 seats accepted the voluntary compensation for denied boarding and was paid twice - once for each seat he had purchased. People don't seem to get the fact that a second seat purchased for personal comfort is a paid seat! The airline is not going to put another person into that seat. That seat has its own boarding pass! When the person boards both boarding passes are scanned and the seat map shows both "occupied".

I previously mentioned I will try to keep open seats next to larger passengers (more for the comfort of other passengers/to reduce complaints) but if there are standbys or late arriving passengers, we have to fill all "available" seats and may no longer be able to keep those extras open......

 

[seashoreCM]

I previously mentioned I will try to keep open seats next to larger passengers (more for the comfort of other passengers/to reduce complaints) but if there are standbys or late arriving passengers, we have to fill all "available" seats and may no longer be able to keep those extras open......

It is a bad idea to fill a half or 3/4 of a seat next to a larger person who did not purchase it. Otherwise you can generate a brand new complaint (from the third person in that row) that you have to take the time to resolve.

There are a variety of other ways to do revenue management around this but that is another topic too lengthy to include here. A partial seat is not saleable product.

 

[goofy4tink]

What if the flight is oversold? I've read a lot of reports of plus-size guests having to relinquish the extra empty seat if oversold, so it's not exactly guaranteed if that is indeed the case.

I am sincerely curious about the answer. Since you work as a gate agent, I thought you'd be the one to ask.

There is no way that if I had paid for that addtl seat, I would be giving it up. I was just talking to someone the other day about the practice of buying all three seats in the row so as to allow the passenger to sleep comfortably when flying across the country or longer. Evidently lots of people do that with no issues, so if someone is large enough to warrant two seats, and they pay for those two seats, oh well. The airline is going to have to ask for someone to take a bump.

I was also wondering what happens if there are no extra seats on the plane and a passenger is asked to buy one after they get on. Are they simply kicked off at that point? And, if there are stand-by passengers in the gate area, do they try to sell that seat to someone else at the last second?

As to the so-called "fat-bashing", I haven't seen one post after reading this entire thread that even remotely qualifies as "fat bashing". I believe that posts that even remotely resemble that description were simply in response to other posts that were calling for....I guess you could say...."non-fat bashing", or "please feel sorry for me because I'm fat". (paraphrasing obviously). It's to be assumed that at some point in these conversations people are going to discuss other people's responsibility for their size. That's all I see here.

Yes, the OP asked a question. It's been addressed. Does that mean others engaging in the thread can't elaborate between themselves on tangential issues?

What I see as 'fat bashing' may not be 'fat bashing' to you. I don't have to justify my comments or concerns.

 

[vacationclub]

What I see as 'fat bashing' may not be 'fat bashing' to you. I don't have to justify my comments or concerns.

You're right, that as an average, everyday poster you don't need to explain or in any way lend credibility to your comments. You are free to say random things with no explanation and let the world respond if they wish.

But, as the "moderator", you do need to offer some explanation. Otherwise how do others in the thread have any idea which comments were considered wrong, or why? How do others know how to avoid you deleting their comments or having the thread closed?

Or were you putting on another hat when you made that comment and not speaking as the moderator?

 

[Lewisc]

I'm not overweight. I fit comfortably in an airline seat. OK comfortably may be pushing it. Airlines restricted the recline when the added more seats but sometimes it wasn't done right or is broken. Can be an issue when the passenger in the seat in front of you reclines.

That said there are two different points of view.

1) The passenger is buying a seat to travel from airport A to airport B. A passenger who is too big to sit in said seat is required to purchase a second seat. This sounds fair too most of us. One question. What happens if an airline decides to further reduce the width of seats so that just under half of all passengers need to purchase a second seat? That means the seat won't be comfortable for passengers who "just fit". Could an airline get away with that? Maybe Spirit. Oh you want a sit big enough to actually use? Our new airline configuration gives us extra seats to sell. Just let us know when you book how many extra seats you think you'll need.

2) The passenger is purchasing transportation from airport A to airport B. It's up to the airline to decide how to accommodate larger passengers, without charging them extra. Block an empty middle seat. Move the passenger to first class or move another passenger to free up a seat. What other business makes an overweight customer pay extra? Some venues (sporting arenas, movie theaters) have seats without arms or a place where wheelchair customers can be accommodated. They can put a folding chair in such a location. Seat guru will tell you the last row, or the last row of seats in a section, are often poor. The seat doesn't recline, the seat in front of you does recline and the pitch isn't increased. I got stuck with one such seat and it was worse. They needed a wider aisle at that spot so the seat was slightly narrower then other seats. No reason why an airline couldn't attempt to compensate by putting 2 seats instead of 3 in that aisle.

US airlines, and most of us, take the point of view. Canada takes the second.

edited to add: Vacationclub. It's never a good idea to publicly question the actions of a moderator. Send a PM if you have a question. You might, or might not, get an answer. It's against the rules in every internet board where I actually read the rules. You don't know what posts were edited or deleted. Sometimes a different person will read the same post a different way. What isn't fat bashing (pick the issue) to you might be read as that by someone else. I don't recall seeing any posts in this thread so egregious as to motivate me to take the, very rare, action of using the report this post icon.

Goofy4tink doesn't do a lot of "heavy" moderating. Either there were posts edited or people might read some of the posts differently then the way you or I read them.

 

[seashoreCM]

Fat bashing happens because a few of them are rude.

Handicapped bashing happens because a few of them are rude (and also a few of their impersonators are rude).

Who wants to say that football players are rude? (hint: you'll find a tiny bit of evidence somewhere in this thread.)

What if the flight is oversold? I've read a lot of reports of plus-size guests having to relinquish the extra empty seat if oversold, so it's not exactly guaranteed if that is indeed the case.

I'd like to hear about a few cases since I too believe that the airline may not take away a purchased second seat that the person is actually taking up. (What other passenger would want to sit there, anyway?)

 

[deegack]

I'm not overweight. I fit comfortably in an airline seat. OK comfortably may be pushing it. Airlines restricted the recline when the added more seats but sometimes it wasn't done right or is broken. Can be an issue when the passenger in the seat in front of you reclines.

That said there are two different points of view.

1) The passenger is buying a seat to travel from airport A to airport B. A passenger who is too big to sit in said seat is required to purchase a second seat. This sounds fair too most of us. One question. What happens if an airline decides to further reduce the width of seats so that just under half of all passengers need to purchase a second seat? That means the seat won't be comfortable for passengers who "just fit". Could an airline get away with that? Maybe Spirit. Oh you want a sit big enough to actually use? Our new airline configuration gives us extra seats to sell. Just let us know when you book how many extra seats you think you'll need.

2) The passenger is purchasing transportation from airport A to airport B. It's up to the airline to decide how to accommodate larger passengers, without charging them extra. Block an empty middle seat. Move the passenger to first class or move another passenger to free up a seat. What other business makes an overweight customer pay extra? Some venues (sporting arenas, movie theaters) have seats without arms or a place where wheelchair customers can be accommodated. They can put a folding chair in such a location. Seat guru will tell you the last row, or the last row of seats in a section, are often poor. The seat doesn't recline, the seat in front of you does recline and the pitch isn't increased. I got stuck with one such seat and it was worse. They needed a wider aisle at that spot so the seat was slightly narrower then other seats. No reason why an airline couldn't attempt to compensate by putting 2 seats instead of 3 in that aisle.

US airlines, and most of us, take the point of view. Canada takes the second.

edited to add: Vacationclub. It's never a good idea to publicly question the actions of a moderator. Send a PM if you have a question. You might, or might not, get an answer. It's against the rules in every internet board where I actually read the rules. You don't know what posts were edited or deleted. Sometimes a different person will read the same post a different way. What isn't fat bashing (pick the issue) to you might be read as that by someone else. I don't recall seeing any posts in this thread so egregious as to motivate me to take the, very rare, action of using the report this post icon.

Goofy4tink doesn't do a lot of "heavy" moderating. Either there were posts edited or people might read some of the posts differently then the way you or I read them.

Just to address the point where you say what other business charges overweight people more - clothing companies (ever check out the prices in a big and tall store) car companies (you want a bigger car you're going to pay for it. It's not like they will say we know you only want a ford focus but because you don't fit here's and escape). It's not just heavier passengers, tall passengers that can't fit in a coach seat pay more to fly in a seat that fits them ie extra leg room or first class.

 

[kaytieeldr]

A big/tall store is a specialty store. Specialty stores charge more than stores with a variety of merchandise. I buy most of my clothes on QVC and HSN. Pretty much any item is one price, no matter what size. And it may surprise you to know that large people fit in a variety of car sizes, and that large cars don't appeal to just large people (or to all large people).

 

[deegack]

A big/tall store is a specialty store. Specialty stores charge more than stores with a variety of merchandise. I buy most of my clothes on QVC and HSN. Pretty much any item is one price, no matter what size. And it may surprise you to know that large people fit in a variety of car sizes, and that large cars don't appeal to just large people (or to all large people).

The exact same item in a big/tall section of a department store is always more expensive than the normal section. And not all large people fit in small cars. I would love a nice little fuel efficient car but I have an suv because it's what fits dh.
The point was someone asked what industry charges more because someone can't fit in The space a "normal size" person fits in. Clothing and automobile are two examples of where you would pay a premium if you don't fit in the normal mold. It's not about buying your clothes from qvc or if you personally can fit in a small car. Not everyone can and no car dealer is going to give you an suv at the price of a economy car because that's what you want even if you can't fit in it. So why should an airline give you two seats for the price of one because you happen not to fit in one.

 

[goofy4tink]

You're right, that as an average, everyday poster you don't need to explain or in any way lend credibility to your comments. You are free to say random things with no explanation and let the world respond if they wish.

But, as the "moderator", you do need to offer some explanation. Otherwise how do others in the thread have any idea which comments were considered wrong, or why? How do others know how to avoid you deleting their comments or having the thread closed?

Or were you putting on another hat when you made that comment and not speaking as the moderator?

How do I judge 'bashing' or other less than civil remarks??? I try to discern if someone would say the same thing, to someone's face...rather than typing it on a keyboard. I try to discern if someone's feelings would be hurt by reading a particular post.
There is a reason so many people feel that this board, while not full of pixiedust and magic, is still polite, civil and non-threatening. I would like it to stay that way. And if that means a few posters get their feathers ruffled when posting something less than civil, then so be it.

I think most people are pretty clear on what is acceptable and what is not. I doubt they have no idea that they are posting something hurtful. I see a lot of posters who try to get something by moderators. It is my job here to make sure that everyone feels welcome when posting. No, everyone is not going to agree. And that's okay. But, most will know, before posting something, if it's going to be appropriate or not.

 

[vacationclub]

How do I judge 'bashing' or other less than civil remarks??? I try to discern if someone would say the same thing, to someone's face...rather than typing it on a keyboard. I try to discern if someone's feelings would be hurt by reading a particular post.
There is a reason so many people feel that this board, while not full of pixiedust and magic, is still polite, civil and non-threatening. I would like it to stay that way. And if that means a few posters get their feathers ruffled when posting something less than civil, then so be it.

I think most people are pretty clear on what is acceptable and what is not. I doubt they have no idea that they are posting something hurtful. I see a lot of posters who try to get something by moderators. It is my job here to make sure that everyone feels welcome when posting. No, everyone is not going to agree. And that's okay. But, most will know, before posting something, if it's going to be appropriate or not.

I appreciate your response. I agree with much of what you said in general, except that part about most people knowing what is acceptable and what is not....that definition can be vague. That's why I asked about it. You've explained your philosophy a bit more here which is helpful but also contradictory at the same time. My main concern is that you're both actively engaged in the conversations while simultaneously moderating. It makes it difficult, perhaps intimidating, to challenge any remarks you make (even ones that are initially directed towards me) because you have the advantage of being able to punish people, close a thread, etc. That's why I asked which hat you were wearing at the time. It's kind of like having the referee also playing for one of the teams. And it goes against making everyone feel comfortable posting here.

Thank you.

 

[Lewisc]

Like I have repeatedly said, most airlines will refund the second seat if there are seats on the plane. I don't see how that is unfair. In fact it is more than generous and is an option not available for people too tall to fit in a stand coach seat. But maybe we just don't whine enough about the situation. I mean it costs us a lot more to travel but we just accept that as part of life, especially since we don't have the option of changing the situation.

Could you provide a link? AFAIK Southwest is the only airline which offers a refund if there are seats on the plane.

http://www.eturbonews.com/14638/overweight-passengers-should-inquire-about-seat-policies-booking

summarizes the policies of some airlines.

Saying something repeatedly doesn't do anything to verify the policy.

I'm not saying the airline should, or shouldn't, refund the cost of the second seat. I am saying people in that situation should review the policy of their airline before booking. Make sure their policy is acceptable to you.

I'd hate to have someone book a second seat, find many empty seats on their flight, ask for a refund only to find out their airline doesn't give refunds on second seat costs to passengers in that situation.

 

[goofy4tink]

I appreciate your response. I agree with much of what you said in general, except that part about most people knowing what is acceptable and what is not....that definition can be vague. That's why I asked about it. You've explained your philosophy a bit more here which is helpful but also contradictory at the same time. My main concern is that you're both actively engaged in the conversations while simultaneously moderating. It makes it difficult, perhaps intimidating, to challenge any remarks you make (even ones that are initially directed towards me) because you have the advantage of being able to punish people, close a thread, etc. That's why I asked which hat you were wearing at the time. It's kind of like having the referee also playing for one of the teams. And it goes against making everyone feel comfortable posting here.

Thank you.

While I do understand your point of view, I think you would be hard pressed to find many people posting here that feel intimidated by me. I am supposed to be in conversations here...that's part of my job as a moderator. Anyone is welcome to challenge anything I say here....I'm not going to 'punish' anyone unless they are mean, nasty, rude or overly sarcastic. I actually seem to have a reputation for letting things slide....other moderators can be heavy handed...I'm not. But I have an aversion to making people feel badly. As long as people are disagreeing politely? It's all good. But, get nasty or mean?? Yep, I'll be peeved. It reeks of 6th grade.

If anyone isn't sure what is appropriate, then I heartily recommend they head over to the area on the DIS that covers 'board guidelines'. It is all laid out as to what is acceptable and what isn't.

So, with that in mind....I intend to continue posting here. That's my job. Go right ahead and disagree with me. I won't chop off your head...

 

[goofy4tink]

Could you provide a link? AFAIK Southwest is the only airline which offers a refund if there are seats on the plane.

http://www.eturbonews.com/14638/overweight-passengers-should-inquire-about-seat-policies-booking

summarizes the policies of some airlines.

Saying something repeatedly doesn't do anything to verify the policy.

I'm not saying the airline should, or shouldn't, refund the cost of the second seat. I am saying people in that situation should review the policy of their airline before booking. Make sure their policy is acceptable to you.

I'd hate to have someone book a second seat, find many empty seats on their flight, ask for a refund only to find out their airline doesn't give refunds on second seat costs to passengers in that situation.

This is what I found on AA's official site...

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformation/specialAssistance/extraSpace.jsp

It says nothing about refunds. So, I can only assume that each airline can be different. One needs to check each airline's official site in order to know what the policy is.

 

[seashoreCM]

I was also wondering what happens if there are no extra seats on the plane and a passenger is asked to buy one after they get on. Are they simply kicked off at that point? And, if there are stand-by passengers in the gate area, do they try to sell that seat to someone else at the last second? ?

As was mentioned earlier, the danger of failing to buy a second seat in advance is getting to the airport and needing a second seat and there isn't one available. Yes it is possible for the things you describe to happen. Available time before departure time is an important factor in determining which and how many of these things or other things happen.