agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[clanmcculloch]

The difference with the SAHM and the working mom is that when you are working you ALREADY have child care for the day set up. Not that it won't be a financial hardship if you lose that check vs SAHM losing money having to pay a sitter or spouse staying at home, but the real issue is finding the care. As others have stated, some areas make that difficult. Here, if you don't do daycare all the time, you don't get in. No one day services. I myself have family and friends to lean on if I were called, but I can see maybe some don't... not the issue. I am just hoping to calm some working moms anger of SAHM feeling they are better or more important. I see how that's what it seems but to me it's more the fact that you already have plans if you are working, not necessarily so if you stay at home.

There have been SAHMs on this thread who have said that their DH would have to take the time off without pay to stay home with the kids in order for them to serve. How is this any different than a working mom taking the time off without pay? It seems like the exact same position to me. Either both are excused or neither is excused. Neither has additional childcare costs and both are out pay for the duration of the trial.

 

[Swimalie]

In NY, having a criminal conviction does not automatically get you out of jury duty. And some "traffic tickets" are misdemeanors or felonies - knowingly driving on a suspended or revoked license for one. And you can get jail time on speeding tickets, though I only know of one instance where that happened and it was deserved.

When I said traffic ticket, I meant more along the lines of speeding. I should have clarified. Yes, some speeding tickets can get you jail time (excessive speeding, or multiple offenses).

I agree in the courts where I have worked, simple traffic infractions (driving on a suspended license, speeding, failure to yield the right of way, etc) won't get you out of jury duty.

 

[Michelle and crew]

There have been SAHMs on this thread who have said that their DH would have to take the time off without pay to stay home with the kids in order for them to serve. How is this any different than a working mom taking the time off without pay? It seems like the exact same position to me. Either both are excused or neither is excused. Neither has additional childcare costs and both are out pay for the duration of the trial.

You are right, but it would depend on the dh's employment. It wouldn't be excused like it has to be if he were serving.

 

[monorailsilver]

In CT a SAHM is not excused. Do not show up to court with your kids they can & possibly will charge you with contempt.

FYI I live in CT & was excused, that was in 2002. I saved my letters & the lady I spoke to told me to claim hardship as I was nursing & I would need a private locked door to pump with a fridge to store my milk. She said I wouldn't be called again until my youngsest was 16 or something like that.

I understand it is a true burden for some folks, but do you guys realize that everyone that is called generally has other obligations, unless you are retired or just real lucky. Jurors have to take off work, miss school, find child care, etc. everyday to sit on a jury. It is a hardship for almost everyone called. If we let everyone off jury duty that had small children or worked we wouldn't have many people to call for duty. It is our civic duty and one we should hold as important.

FTR, I have gone to Jury Duty. I was in my early 20's & had no kids & worked FT. It was my day off, Tuesday, aka my weekend since I worked the weekend (I am a RN). I had to fight the Jury people to pay me for my time. They kept telling me that my work would pay me & I had to tell them over & over again that it was my day off to which they would say yes because you are here. They finally got it.

So I would not have an issue going if I didn't have to deal with kids.

Sorry no childcare is not a valid excuse.
If you have no options you are not a very good parent now are you?

You have never researched options in the event of an emergency?
Or are so broke that serving on a jury would mean your kids would go hungry?

I think there should only be excused absences for illness, child illness, care of disabled parent, etc.

Every sahm I know has childcare options, just in case.

Add me to the bad parent list I guess. Jury Duty is not an emergency situation but if I had a kid attached to me to nurse & that kid would not take a bottle & I needed to pump to relieve the pressure that is an emergency.

My dh works & we are not well off. It isn't easy for him to just take off. Of course if he knows in advance he can but sometimes he has people coming in to train (he trains people & works on Outdoor warning sirens, aka hurricanes & tornados or some disaster is coming & the sirens blare, think your fire house siren). So if he takes off we lose that OT that he'd be getting.

Oh & when my youngest was 12 months old she turned blue on me. Me being a RN panic'd & we called 911 & had to go to the ER (she went back to pink before the EMS came). I rode in the ambulance with her & my dh took my 5 & 3 yo in the car with him. We got home at 10:30.

My family (as in my parents & sisters) don't live close or that close. My parents & one sister live an hour away & my other sister lives in KY (I am in CT). They would know what to do with younger kids. But in an emergency they couldn't get here quick enough & would have to meet us at the ER. My dh's family all lives with in 10 min of us. My FIL could not be left alone with the kids when they were younger because he could not change a diaper let alone know how to give them food (yes I am serious). He just died so he is out of the picture for an emergency now.

My MIL does not drive so for an emergency we'd have to spend 20 min round trip going to get her as my kids are not allowed in her house because her house belongs on an episode of Hoarders. They are not allowed at another BIL's house because he also belongs on Hoarders (I am not kidding) & they have cats, not just one or 2 cats but about 10 so I'd rather die then let my kids go there. My younger BIL at the time was too young to care for an infant or any child that needs to be diapered. Now he can in a pinch.

So what I am saying, not everyone can deal with an infant or young child. But now they can. I would never ask anyone to take off work. My parents would easily come to watch my kids now if I had Jury Duty.

Yes I have neighbors but 2 are old, one has no kids by choice, one smokes & I wouldn't want my kids there, etc.... We know them buy my kids don't know them well enough for me to drop them off. In a pinch now, not when my kids were infants, I'd leave them with the old guy next to me but I wouldn't infringe on them for Jury Duty.

Do I have friends, yes but would I infringe on them for Jury Duty? No.

This is something that puzzles me... why do people leave themselves without a safety net? What would the SAHM in this situation do if she had an emergency other than jury duty? Even if you don't intend to use daycare, why wouldn't you at least line up someone you could trust if you had to go to the emergency room or something?

See above.

 

[wbarkhur]

I admit I didn't read all 19 pages of the thread, so if someone has already posted this, or something similar I am sorry, but I just wanted to share a different point of veiw with everyone. I do have small children, and am a SAHM also so I do "get" it. And honestly a few years ago right after my son was born I did get out of judy duty because I was nursing and had two others at home. So I know that at times it is important to be able to not go, but I think that alot of people just don't want to disrupt their lives, which is valid, but I would ask you to think about the people who are in court needing that jury. Earlier this year our family had a federal(had to be federal because the other person involved was not a US citizen) wrongful death court case, that lasted two weeks. As a family we knew that it was hard for the jury members to have to be gone from their families for that amount of time and also their jobs/other obligations. Because of the way the court works we were never able to tell them, but we are so very thankful for them taking time out of their lives so that we could get some sort of justice for what had happened. I will never look at Jury duty the same way again, and would ask others to think about it in a different way also.

 

[wtrmlnlabs]

There have been SAHMs on this thread who have said that their DH would have to take the time off without pay to stay home with the kids in order for them to serve. How is this any different than a working mom taking the time off without pay? It seems like the exact same position to me. Either both are excused or neither is excused. Neither has additional childcare costs and both are out pay for the duration of the trial.

I agree, that point is the same, what I was trying to say is that the difference is finding the sitter. The complaint is finding a sitter. If you already work, you already have a sitter planned for (at least most) of the day. If you are a SAHM you don't have someone watching your kids all day and finding someone can be very difficult depending on where you live, who you know, etc. Like I said, I'm fortunate enough to have lots of people I could depend on for something like this... great group of home schoolers that would do anything for any of us. But many don't have such a thing.

I agree, no one should complain about the money lost, most everyone would have that in some way, either paying a sitter, losing hours at work, DH losing hours at work, but someone stated there is no reason for SAHM to complain more or whatever about it. It's being brought up that everyone can find someone, and I was just saying the difficult part is that finding someone sometimes... it can be harder for a SAHM because we don't already have someone doing this daily.

Okay, no idea if I'm making my point clear, but just trying

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

I admit I didn't read all 19 pages of the thread, so if someone has already posted this, or something similar I am sorry, but I just wanted to share a different point of veiw with everyone. I do have small children, and am a SAHM also so I do "get" it. And honestly a few years ago right after my son was born I did get out of judy duty because I was nursing and had two others at home. So I know that at times it is important to be able to not go, but I think that alot of people just don't want to disrupt their lives, which is valid, but I would ask you to think about the people who are in court needing that jury. Earlier this year our family had a federal(had to be federal because the other person involved was not a US citizen) wrongful death court case, that lasted two weeks. As a family we knew that it was hard for the jury members to have to be gone from their families for that amount of time and also their jobs/other obligations. Because of the way the court works we were never able to tell them, but we are so very thankful for them taking time out of their lives so that we could get some sort of justice for what had happened. I will never look at Jury duty the same way again, and would ask others to think about it in a different way also.

Thank you for sharing this. Almost no one who is speaking honestly would say that they would prefer to disrupt their lives and be inconvenienced in order to serve on a jury. But our system only works if people who have better things to do are willing to be inconvenienced and serve.

Here's a tip on the nursing issue--I have pumped standing up in a bathroom stall with the breast pump hanging from the hook where you hang your purse (I just dumped the milk because I couldn't see myself feeding my baby milk pumped in a bathroom stall), and I have pumped and stored the milk in a little ice chest I carried around the rest of the day, so I don't believe a private room with a lock and fridg is required.

 

[clanmcculloch]

I agree, that point is the same, what I was trying to say is that the difference is finding the sitter. The complaint is finding a sitter. If you already work, you already have a sitter planned for (at least most) of the day. If you are a SAHM you don't have someone watching your kids all day and finding someone can be very difficult depending on where you live, who you know, etc. Like I said, I'm fortunate enough to have lots of people I could depend on for something like this... great group of home schoolers that would do anything for any of us. But many don't have such a thing.

I agree, no one should complain about the money lost, most everyone would have that in some way, either paying a sitter, losing hours at work, DH losing hours at work, but someone stated there is no reason for SAHM to complain more or whatever about it. It's being brought up that everyone can find someone, and I was just saying the difficult part is that finding someone sometimes... it can be harder for a SAHM because we don't already have someone doing this daily.

Okay, no idea if I'm making my point clear, but just trying

But, several SAHMs have said they WON'T have their DHs take the time off work because they'll lose pay. It's not that they can't; they won't. If a working mom would have to take the day off work, why shouldn't a spouse? No childcare is needed because the kids will be at home with dad.

I do understand the situation of a SAHM with a military DH deployed overseas is very different as he clearly can't just come home I also understand a situation where it could cause a business to go under (somebody posted about a business with only 2 employees). I'm talking about a SAHM with a DH who just won't get paid by his employer for that time off; this is no different than a working outside the home mom who won't get paid. It's just an excuse.

BFing is not an excuse. Many of us working outside the home moms had to pump and bottle feed our kids what we pumped. I do agree that during the period of time when woman are protected by FMLA laws for maternity leave that this should be justified as excusable since the federal government has already agreed that this is a time that a new mother needs to be away from work and IMO this is no different than work. After that, there's no reason a mom can't pump and feed. Not wanting to introduce a bottle is not the same as not being able to.

I also think that a judge refusing a break to allow a nursing mom to pump may be violating some kind of law but obviously I haven't researched that. If I was called and I was pumping, I'd sure make sure I knew my legal rights on that matter.

 

[wtrmlnlabs]

But, several SAHMs have said they WON'T have their DHs take the time off work because they'll lose pay. It's not that they can't; they won't. If a working mom would have to take the day off work, why shouldn't a spouse? No childcare is needed because the kids will be at home with dad.

Yep, I agree. You have to do what you have to do. The courts can be real stubborn, but you have to understand so many people go in there crying all kinds of things to get out of it. They're kinda stuck too!

 

[bartleby1]

I agree that if it was a few weeks it would be much more difficult. However, there were posters here who said they couldn't get someone for ONE day to even go to the court on their summoned day and explain it to the judge. They would go with their kids in tow, etc. I think that is what seems unreasonable to many other posters. It sounds like we agree on that one day should hopefully be no big deal. Inconvenient, sure, but doable.

The times I have had jury duty the courts were very reasonable. If someone showed up and respectfully explained their hardships they were excused. Some people here do have extenuating circumstances why they couldn't serve on a lengthy trial, and I have found the courts take that into account.

See, this is what I don't get though. Why should someone have to jump through hoops to find sitters and inconvenience friends, family, etc, just so they can go down to the court for that ONE day to plead their case and then be sent home and not have to serve? Isn't that just a waste of everyone's time?

Now, if the reason is that they must go down there because they need to serve on a case, well, then they do need to make arrangements for more than ONE day.

My kids are older now and it would be much easier for me to work something out if needed, however, when my kids were 5yr, 2-1/2 yr, and an infant, I would have had a really hard time finding childcare since I had recently moved and didn't have friends/family in the area. It really is quite difficult to find sitters for multiple young children since most other SAHM's are home because they also have young kids. There is a limit as to how many kids one person can fit in their car. I have a minivan but can only fit 4 carseats plus one child in the middle of the back row. If my girlfriend dropped two or three young kids off at my house when my oldest was in kindergarten, I wouldn't even be able to get my daughter to and from the bus stop because I couldn't fit them all in the car. Most of us who are SAHM's do need to leave our houses to cart kids around multiple times a day. We do help each other out, but usually that is for a few hours here and there. When it is for an entire day, the car situation really becomes an issue.

I also think there wouldn't be as much hesitation on the part of the public to serve if our courts were run more efficiently. I "served" for FOUR days back in 1998. I was a teacher at the time and was called during school. I requested to be called back in the summer. When they called me back, it was the last week of June/first week of July... heading into July 4th weekend. We all sat in a crowded room at the courthouse for FOUR DAYS and they didn't call a single person in for a case. I don't know if all the judges were on vacation that week or what was going on, but it was ludicrous to make hundreds of us sit for four days for no reason. Finally, on Friday they told us we didn't have to come in because they wouldn't be starting any cases before the holiday weekend. Needless to say there were many of us who were not happy that the court wasted all of our time for no reason. Not a single juror was called that entire week. I guess the $5 per day that we were paid was supposed to make up for wasting our time. Boy, would I have been ticked if I lost almost a full weeks' salary for no reason!

 

[Michelle and crew]

Geez, that would stink to be called on break! I was called over and over until I talked to the bailiff. Thankfully the dad of one of my childhood bff's. We agreed that when they were in need and my work experience wouldn't send me home he'd call. I was called 3 or 4 times. Still sent home 2. We wouldn't want people who are intelligent, and read and watch the news serving.

 

[melancholywings]

She also did not excuse me until after I described my daughter's illness to her. I asked if she wanted a doctor;s note and she said that would not be necessary that she could excuse me from the details I gave her.
They have really toughened up.
Good Luck,
PammyPoppins

Is this a protected disability? I wonder how that can be legal, and not violate your's daughters privacy rights? Unless the questions were just based on what her needs were?

 

[melancholywings]

The difference with the SAHM and the working mom is that when you are working you ALREADY have child care for the day set up.

Not all working mom's have 9-5 work days. Not all working mom's have full time jobs. And being a working mom doesn't mean you always have a childcare provider at your beck and call.

Although it would be great if it worked that way.

 

[MScott1851]

Not all working mom's have 9-5 work days. Not all working mom's have full time jobs. And being a working mom doesn't mean you always have a childcare provider at your beck and call.

Although it would be great if it worked that way.

EXACTLY!!! I work at night and keep my DD at home during the day. I am also a per diem worker which means I have no benefits like paid time off, so when I don't work, I don't get paid, nor do I get paid for jury duty by my employer.

I got called for jury duty two months ago, and Shelby County, TN doesn't give a flip whether you are breastfeeding or not. The clerk said, 'Oh, you'll just have to pump, I guess.' I was a pumping mom, not that it was any of her business, but some moms don't. What do they do? After I took my colicky
child to the clerks office and let her scream while I asked for a release, they THEN told me I could pick a week in January to serve, and 'I had better make
some arrangements, because they wouldn't reschedule me again.'

Frankly, I don't care whether it's my civic duty or not at this point in time. I am exhausted, I'm trying my best to keep myself, my child, home, marriage, and career intact, and I could care less about sitting in a courtroom deciding whether Joe Q. Public stole that car or not.

 

[arminnie]

When I lived in Dallas and Houston it was so easy not to get picked for a jury. All you had to do was to show up in a suit and look very professional. They couldn't get rid of you fast enough.

Now that didn't work at all when I lived in San Mateo County, CA. Everyone in that jury pool looked just like me. I got picked for my first jury. I was quite happy to convict that sex offender. That was the same courtroom where the Scott Peterson trial took place. I'd moved or I could have been on that one.

Of course I couldn't complain as I always got my regular salary so there was no hardship. I even got to keep the $8 jury fee.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Frankly, I don't care whether it's my civic duty or not at this point in time. I am exhausted, I'm trying my best to keep myself, my child, home, marriage, and career intact, and I could care less about sitting in a courtroom deciding whether Joe Q. Public stole that car or not.

Oh. Well, ideally eventually this exhaustion (and the accompanying attitude) will pass. Also ideally, you and anyone you know will never find yourselves in wbarkhur's situation:

I admit I didn't read all 19 pages of the thread, so if someone has already posted this, or something similar I am sorry, but I just wanted to share a different point of veiw with everyone. I do have small children, and am a SAHM also so I do "get" it. And honestly a few years ago right after my son was born I did get out of judy duty because I was nursing and had two others at home. So I know that at times it is important to be able to not go, but I think that alot of people just don't want to disrupt their lives, which is valid, but I would ask you to think about the people who are in court needing that jury. Earlier this year our family had a federal(had to be federal because the other person involved was not a US citizen) wrongful death court case, that lasted two weeks. As a family we knew that it was hard for the jury members to have to be gone from their families for that amount of time and also their jobs/other obligations. Because of the way the court works we were never able to tell them, but we are so very thankful for them taking time out of their lives so that we could get some sort of justice for what had happened. I will never look at Jury duty the same way again, and would ask others to think about it in a different way also.

 

[MScott1851]

Oh. Well, ideally eventually this exhaustion (and the accompanying attitude) will pass. Also ideally, you and anyone you know will never find yourselves in wbarkhur's situation:

I hope so, too. I know I have a bad attitude about it. No one in their right mind would want me on a jury right now. A year ago, I would have went, listened, and done a good job. But right now it's next to dead last on my priority list, so I don't think it's doing anyone any favors to select me for duty.

 

[aj2hall]

I confess I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to share an alternative. Just last week, I was assigned jury duty here in NH. I'm a SAHM with three small children and limited childcare options. I requested a waiver and was granted a one year extension. I will be called to jury duty again a year from now. I'm not sure my situation will be any different, but at least I'll have more time to make childcare arrangements. Just my 2 cents - no judgement, just sharing an alternative. hopefully, it might be helpful to someone in a similar situation.

 

[Leajess99]

I know, I'm waaaaaaay OT... but huge difference here called STALLS.

Boys can go into the ladies w/o seeing any anatomy. Girls can't go into the men's w/o seeing a trough/urinal and someone using it.


ok. back to regularly scheduled arguing.

Umm, seriously have you been in some of the bathrooms with women changing clothes after getting off water rides?? Some cultures are not as concerned about the opposite sex seeing all they have (then again some cultures don't have toilets but holes in the floor you squat over, so not fun when in a foreign country and pregnant). Oh yeah and some cultures also have mixed sex bathrooms so they have no qualms about changing or going the bathroom in front of the opposite sex. Also, most men aren't pulling pants down for the world to see their stuff. From what I understand from my teen and many other men unless you are really looking you are not seeing anything.

 

[tink2dw]

I moved from the northwest to the southwest so family can help us! 4 weeks after we moved here, I got a Notice for Fed Jury Duty. I Sure wasn't going back just for Fed Jury Duty!!! So, I put my new address all over the paperwork and envelope!!!!! They sent me postcard excusing me, and they hope my circumstances change so I can do Jury Duty [!!]