Aggressive Kitten Behavior Normal?

[daughter_of_amid_chaos]

My 12 year old kitty (who is fixed) has a tendency toward aggressive behavior. Since she was a kitten she would attack the nearest exposed flesh if she saw a cat outside.
When we brought in other cats she beat the crap out of them. When they got bigger, they ganged up on her and beat the crap out of her.
Lots of hissing. Gets irritated quickly.
Vet says she has a behavior problem and her file is marked with a big red caution.
Now that she lives alone with no other cats she has become very well behaved.
If she is not feeling well then she gets slightly aggressive with me but otherwise the behavior problem seems to be under control as long as there are no other cats around.

 

[Kath2003]

We punish bad behaviour with yelling the same word once very loudly and then ignoring the cat. We reward good behaviour with treats and calm, quiet words. We have one perfect cat and one kitten (4 months) who is a "work in progress"

Seriously you just need to show him who's boss. If he wants to be outdoors then you need to let him go outdoors. Routine is everything: get him set into times when he will have doors opened for him and times when he won't.

Cats are VERY trainable and learn very quickly. Find out what your cat likes and what he dislikes and use them appropriately to reward good behaviour and deter from the bad.

LOTS of scratching posts by the entrances, too. We bought plastic matting to slide under the bedroom doors into the hallway so that the cats physically COULDN'T scratch the carpet at night: because they've never been able to do it, they now don't even without the mat.

He sounds like he could use a place to be indoors but not around humans also: do you have a shed or garage that you could install a cat flap in? Otherwise a hidey-hole somewhere in your house may benefit him.

Ours are indoor/outdoor cats (or the kitten will be once he's been neutered at 6 months). There isn't the big deal about outdoor cats over here - almost ALL cats are indoor/outdoor unless they are very elderly.

 

[PatsGirl]

Well....lots of advice, thank you everyone who posted I need to go over the information and prepare a strategy for allowing him to go out at a reasonable time in the morning (instead of 4 am) and getting him back inside before dusk when the coyotes and others predators come around.

This morning was particularly brutal, he started on me at quarter of 4 and would go away and come back about every 20 minutes until I finally got up and put him out at 5:20. I think I might close the bedroom door tonight and just let him scratch it. At this point, I'd rather sand down the door and restain it then have to be up at 4 am again.

Someone mentioned that their cat is more aggressive when they first come inside. I find this very much the case. It takes him about an hour to calm down and want to be held.

He is an only kitten and I watch him outside, he has so much fun, he runs back and forth and up and down the trees, digs in the yard for moles and just generally is living the life It is very quiet in my home because #1 we aren't home most of the day and #2 its just myself and DD. On days when it is raining and he CHOOSES to stay inside, he hides under DD's bed for the day. That seems to be the other problem, he has his nights and days mixed up, sleeps all day, plays all night and no matter what I've done to keep him awake early evening he just runs and hides.

Wow, I've always had dogs and was told that having a cat would be much easier. Not really sure just how true that is. My dogs trained easily, were affectionate all the time, and loyal. The kitten has a mind of his own

 

[Imzadi]

This morning was particularly brutal, he started on me at quarter of 4 and would go away and come back about every 20 minutes until I finally got up and put him out at 5:20. I think I might close the bedroom door tonight and just let him scratch it. At this point, I'd rather sand down the door and restain it then have to be up at 4 am again.

He is an only kitten and I watch him outside, he has so much fun, he runs back and forth and up and down the trees, digs in the yard for moles and just generally is living the life It is very quiet in my home because #1 we aren't home most of the day and #2 its just myself and DD. On days when it is raining and he CHOOSES to stay inside, he hides under DD's bed for the day. That seems to be the other problem, he has his nights and days mixed up, sleeps all day, plays all night and no matter what I've done to keep him awake early evening he just runs and hides.

Wow, I've always had dogs and was told that having a cat would be much easier. Not really sure just how true that is. My dogs trained easily, were affectionate all the time, and loyal. The kitten has a mind of his own

Dogs are easier to train because they want to PLEASE their master/Alpha dog. Cats, more or less, like the please themselves. So it makes them harder to train, but, as I've already proven, with a highly trained cat, they are trainable.

Training a cat is more about rewards & punishments. They like being rewarded. They try to avoid the punishments. You need to get your cat to understand that you expect certain things from him. He does certain things, and he will get rewarded. He does other behaviors and he gets punished.

He is at the perfect age to start learning these things. I started training my cat to sit at about 9 -10 months old. I got the directions off the web. I did it with treats first. Then I started using her food bowl and would not put it down until she did the behavior. Like Pavlov's dog and ringing a bell, my cat pretty much now sits on command without even thinking or realizing she's doing it. I constantly say SIT that much.

After about a couple weeks of only doing the SIT command, I then added LAY. (I had to push her from a sitting position, grab her paws to lay down, then immediately reward her.) She would get confused at first because she knew I wanted something, but couldn't connect the word LAY to the action. But, she did understand: I wanted a certain behavior from her and if she figured it out and did it, she would get rewarded (get to eat or a treat, or petting and affection. )

Once ANY cat has learned that concept, they can be trained to do many things. Then, it just takes time, a lot of time and patience and repetition.

If they can figure out what they can or need to do to continue being rewarded, they will do it. Your cat has already figured out that crying or scratching at the door at 4 am gets him outside. He's got YOU trained.

You have to stop rewarding that behavior, and if necessary punish the bad behavior. Other people have said squirt guns, treats. I have found several balled up socks thrown in the direction of and above the cat and saying a firm No!, works at 4 am. NOTE: I said "in the direction of the cat." I did NOT say, HIT the cat. (This is the DIS, someone surely is going to mis-read and say I said to hit the cat. ) The balls of socks hit the WALL or the DOOR. They make a huge thumping noise if you have a hollow core door, as they hit the door. Both, having a projectile object coming near him, (he will duck & run,) and hearing you say NO!, as well as the noise of the thump are good reinforcements, that he does NOT want to continue that behavior. Have several balled up socks, because you WILL have to repeat this behavior quite a few times, when he realizes the balls have stopped, you've gone back to sleep, and he will try crying again.

Pick up the balls of socks each nite and replace on the nightstand. He will probably try this for several more mornings , until he realizes that crying by the door will not get him out; it will only cause socks to come flying at him.

Then, he may move to knocking all the balls of socks off the nightstand before crying at the door. But, that is another story.

Eventually, you will get to a point when you just have to say No! without throwing the balls of socks or squirting the water gun.


It also sounds like there really isn't much stimulation for him inside, other than to come in and eat. No wonder he wants to be outside all the time. That's natural. I know you don't have a lot of time, but you & DD have to make an effort to play with him indoors more. Especially right before bed.

I used to use a cat toy on a string. My kitty would chase the toy for a full 20 minutes and be really tuckered out. Then we'd both go to sleep, and she'd sleep through the night. She still does that now, without all the playing. She has learned my bedtime ritual and knows when it's time for bed.

He will sit and complain by the back door until finally I just can't take it and let him out. If I try to go out and catch him he runs and acts like it is a game of chase. (When I turn to go back he will run after me...)

My cat & I play Hide & Stalk like this all the time. It's part of my favorite times with her. She always makes me laugh when we play like this. She LOVES to RUN and "pretends" to hide, knowing full well that I know where she is. When I get up close, she turns around and chases me, and I hide. Although, she really does have to look for me. It hones her stalking instinct. I jump out at her, and she's off running away again, like I scared the dickens out of her. Only she really isn't scared. She is hilarious! If I had a bigger place, I'd be chasing her all over the house and she'd love it. It helps her to release excess energy, and again tire her out.

 

[PatsGirl]

Thanks Imzadi for the tips I think I'll try the rolled up socks tonight and see how that goes because I really need the air exchange I get leaving the door open. And FWIW, this kitten has more toys than my kids had growing up but he doesn't seem all that interested in any one toy, most of them just lie around. There is one he seems to gravitate to between the 4 am and 5 am crying. He brings it onto my bed and plays and then naps a bit before attempting to wake me again. Truly, I've bought every toy I have read about and, like my spoiled children, plays with them for a day or two and then.... We attempt to play with him several times a day but he generally only interacts for a few minutes before giving us the bored look

 

[Imzadi]

Yes, my kitty gets bored with stationary toys, too. She has ME trained as she will only now play with toys that _I_ move. She only likes toys now on a string, or when I pick up wadded balls of paper to throw around for her, pick up and throw again.

Oh, she did like a laser pointer tool for a while. Those are great. She would chase around the little red laser dot. (Don't beam it directly into their eyes, that could cause damage.) But, a laser dot pointed at the floor or down near the bottom of the wall, Kitty goes chasing it for quite a while. Again it tires them out. Of course, now my cat has realized she can never "catch" the red dot. Another good toy down the tubes.

 

[PatsGirl]

Well, tried the sock thing and it shut him up for a few minutes at a time but basically he worked his every 20 minute routine

At 5 am I finally put his butt in the hall and shut the bedroom door. Because of the fan I was able to sleep through his scratching but I know it was a good 15 minutes before I fell back asleep and he was going at it strong, he was seriously po'd

When I woke at 6:30 he was sound asleep on the cool bathroom floor. I then made him wait and eat before I let him out so I don't have to worry about him not eating all day.

I have decided to not feed him until late night so he will come in. We had a terrible time getting him in last night, started at 8 pm and finally he came to the door at 11 pm. He generally (and did last night too) comes in to eat around 6 and wants to go back out right away.

Maybe this routine will work for us, I'll keep you updated if anyone cares

 

[WDSearcher]

DISCLAIMER: This might be an unwelcome post, and I don't mean it as snarky as it may come out. But no one has asked the obvious question.

Why did you get a cat? Why do you have one? Because it kind of sounds like you got a kitten because the kitten was cute and cuddly and people told you how easy it would be, and now that it's becoming a cat, you're not as enamoured by it because it actually requires attention. I mean ... you don't necessarily come across as a 'cat person'.

You let the kitten out all day, you don't seem to play with it (buying it every toy that has ever been made and actually taking the time to PLAY with those toys with your cat are two different things), it is clearly BEGGING for your attention, it has no one to play with. You don't seem to do much more with or for this cat than feeding it and letting it in and out. So I'm wondering why you have one in the first place?

Of COURSE he sleeps all day and is up at night. That's when YOU are there. Of course he's going to bring toys to you in bed and try to get you to play. That's when he hopes that if he just makes enough ruckus, you'll actually get up and play with him. He knows he has no chance of that during the day when you're gone, so his only option is to stay awake when you're there.

In an earlier post, you said: "He is an only kitten and I watch him outside, he has so much fun, he runs back and forth and up and down the trees, digs in the yard for moles and just generally is living the life". And then, "If I try to go out and catch him he runs and acts like it is a game of chase. (When I turn to go back he will run after me...) Doesn't that tell you anything? This cat is doing everything it can to show you how much it wants to play with you. When you come out to catch him, he's thinking, "Oh hooray! It worked! She's here!"

I really think you need to either decide that this kitten is worth taking the time to nurture and train, or you need to re-home him and get him into a household where he can get the attention he clearly craves. Just feeding him and throwing balled-up socks at him at night are not going to do it.

 

[PatsGirl]

Wow, I read the post and then thought to myself "let it go" but two hours later it is still really bothering me that someone would make the assumptions WDSearcher has, so I'm going to point out a few things and from there on will reply on to HELPFUL posts, not HURTFUL ones.

1) Do not bother with a disclaimer, if it quacks like a duck....

2) We got a cat because DD wanted one for many years and, because I am familiar with the work and attention that animals require, I wanted to wait until she was old enough to help care for it because you are right, I never considered myself a cat person and this is our first cat (although I have had many dogs) so it's a learning curve. Part of that curve is learning that I may very well be a "cat person"

3) As for the snarky "you're not as enamoured by it because it actually requires attention", well, if you had read my other posts you'd know that we continuously attempt to engage the kitten in playtime but as he gets older HE has preferred outside time.

4) I did reread my post which says that we aren't home much during the day but I should be clearer about that ~ I am up and about from 6:30-8:30 every morning and during the school year home about 2:30 every day for the night with the exception of school/social outings. There are few people home more than I am unless they are retired or SAHM so NO, he doesn't have to catch me in the middle of the night to get my/our attention and again, we attempt to engage him in play several times a day. He does like to sit on my lap while I'm on the computer and be petted at night but it appears that he prefers the quiet time being petted to the fun time being played with.

5) The first part of your quote is correct, we love watching him play outside ~ the second part was a different poster so the snarky "doesn't that tell you anything" doesn't apply to me and if you don't think this was a snarky reply, you might want to have someone else read it to you

I could continue on but instead of ridding myself of the anger I feel at this point by replying, I seem to be getting more upset. Sometimes things are best unsaid and so I leave it at that

 

[Kath2003]

DISCLAIMER: This might be an unwelcome post, and I don't mean it as snarky as it may come out. But no one has asked the obvious question.

Why did you get a cat? Why do you have one? Because it kind of sounds like you got a kitten because the kitten was cute and cuddly and people told you how easy it would be, and now that it's becoming a cat, you're not as enamoured by it because it actually requires attention. I mean ... you don't necessarily come across as a 'cat person'.

You let the kitten out all day, you don't seem to play with it (buying it every toy that has ever been made and actually taking the time to PLAY with those toys with your cat are two different things), it is clearly BEGGING for your attention, it has no one to play with. You don't seem to do much more with or for this cat than feeding it and letting it in and out. So I'm wondering why you have one in the first place?

Of COURSE he sleeps all day and is up at night. That's when YOU are there. Of course he's going to bring toys to you in bed and try to get you to play. That's when he hopes that if he just makes enough ruckus, you'll actually get up and play with him. He knows he has no chance of that during the day when you're gone, so his only option is to stay awake when you're there.

In an earlier post, you said: "He is an only kitten and I watch him outside, he has so much fun, he runs back and forth and up and down the trees, digs in the yard for moles and just generally is living the life". And then, "If I try to go out and catch him he runs and acts like it is a game of chase. (When I turn to go back he will run after me...) Doesn't that tell you anything? This cat is doing everything it can to show you how much it wants to play with you. When you come out to catch him, he's thinking, "Oh hooray! It worked! She's here!"

I really think you need to either decide that this kitten is worth taking the time to nurture and train, or you need to re-home him and get him into a household where he can get the attention he clearly craves. Just feeding him and throwing balled-up socks at him at night are not going to do it.

Good grief, do you think cat owners spend every moment they are home entertaining their cats?!

The cat needs to learn the rules of the house. He will learn them if the OP practices the same routine over and over on HER terms, not his.

My suggestion would be a cat door and to let the cat come and go as he pleases. My near-perfect cat gets that "naughty" look in his eyes if he wants to go out but can't (but he knows my "death glare"! ). We got him into a routine so he knows when he can expect to go out and when he can expect to be indoors.

We don't let our cats in our bedroom at night. They are both under 2 years old. They fuss in the night - that's what cats do. They don't sleep for 8 hours solid like humans - they want to play at 4am. We shut them out and wake up in the morning to a cat that is indeed pleased to see us, but is happy, healthy and the cat of two well-rested humans.

I love watching my cat play outside. He is different when he's outside. I know he prefers it when we are out there with him, but I can't spend my days entertaining my cat!

Oh and no matter what toys I had, no matter how much attention I was paying either of my cats, I can 100% guarantee that if there were a cardboard box in the room, that would be WAY more interesting than any form of entertainment I could provide.

 

[shortbun]

I had a very male cat for 21 years. He bit my ankles when he wanted my attention. When he played, he was really rough until he got pretty old; maybe 5 or 6. He'd come in at night and when he wanted out, he'd get up near my face and like my eyelids. Hilarious now, not so funny then. I got him another little boy playmate-do not get a female cat with such a dominate male. I kinda had to let him know who was boss a few times, I'd give him a good finger snap on his ear and then I'd have his attention. thing with my cat was that he was trainable. I trained him to come on demand, fetch q-tips like a dog with a stick and he obeyed the commands, 'get down', 'stop', 'lay down' when at first combined with hand gestures and later either or. He loved to be brushed with a stiff bristly brush so if I wanted him to come to me even if he was outside and on the hunt, all I had to do was tap that brush on something and I had his undivided attention.
Try training your cat. You need to find some real good collateral. Positive and negative response was the key to it with Kingfish.

 

[WDSearcher]

Thanks for both of the replies. You're right -- I should have skipped the disclaimer. Thought about it. Didn't. Was wrong.

As angry as PatsGirl is with me for what I replied, that's how I felt thinking about this cat that seemed to not have anyone dedicating time to it. It seemed as though the only interaction with the cat was feeding, chasing, and opening the door.

You noted that this is your daughter's cat. I didn't see you mention much about what she does to take care of him, aside from trying to engage in play. Maybe she could spend more time with him -- become a bigger part of the equation?

And yes, Kath2003, the cat needs to learn to exist in the house on the human's terms and not the other way around. But that's going to take a lot of time. As you said, "He will learn them if the OP practices the same routine over and over on HER terms, not his." OP mentioned trying the sock thing for one night and seemed sort of dismayed that it didn't work right away (I got 'dismayed' from the use of ... if that was inaccurate, then I misread). Then she mentioned changing the feeding schedule to see if THAT works. It's like, "we tried this a couple of times, it didn't work, let's try something else." The "over and over" part of of your scenario seems to be missing.

My cats are exactly the same as yours, Kath2003. The kittens stay in the spare bedroom at night and they play and wrestle and run to their hearts content. It is their playroom. I get a full night's sleep and they burn off all their energy. I feed them before I shower in the morning and then play with them for a half-hour before work. When I get home, I feed everyone (including the humans!) and then have some dedicated playtime in the evening. They know when I pick up the feather toy that it's time to play with me. The rest of the time they either play on their own or sleep. It works great, but it took weeks to get that schedule to the point where they could count on it and not spend time underfoot nipping and biting for attention.

 

[robinb]

For the biting, one trick that has been used successfully (if a spray bottle doesn't do the trick) when they bite, is to put some coins in a can and shake it near the kitten, whenever it tries to bite.

You can also throw the can near the cat when he is yowling at the door to be let out.