After reading this book, at the very least, I'll TIP WAY MORE

[mammacaryn]

When I was getting a manicure I asked the girl if she left the ship when it was in port and she said she did all of the time and told me all of the places she had been and which were her favorite. This was on Royal Caribbean, not sure if your free time is dependent on where you work (spa vs dining room, etc.), but it seemed like they were enjoying their jobs. One of the crew members was in the salon getting her hair colored and looked like she was having a lot of fun with the two stylists. Maybe the spa/salon is one of the better areas to work in.

They would leave if it wasn't good for them in some way. Weather they are making money to send home, or making money for save for college while having an adventure (the one drink server on deck from Australia we spoke to one time) or just working at a job they genuinely enjoy. They have all chose this lifestyle for their own reason. They are not being held hostage....If they work a tipped position and were not making enough money they can and will leave. (MOST cruisers are NOT on the Dis, and therefore, I would assume most are tipping minimum recommended tips and people are staying with the job, which means it is suiting their situation they are in for the time being at the very least) You see or hear about servers and room hostesses and entertainers that have been on the ships for many years, if it was awful they wouldn't stay with the company. At the very least it is a better situation, or more money or just more fun, than they are able to get/have someplace else.

People on here invest so much emotion and thought and worry into the entire tipping deal, and how much money these folks make. It makes no sense to me. It's their job, they are doing it to make money. Do you leave extra money(more than standard 15-20%) for your waiter/waitress who (unless they work in a handful of states ) makes less than standard minimum wage hourly because he/she MIGHT be struggling at home? Or sending money to her child that lives with grandma and grandpa? Probably not. (wait staff starting rate hourly is less than $5 in most states-at least 30 of them)You tip on service.

 

[sissy_ib]

I was actually thinking the same thing. You're also fighting for your country and doing something respectful and honorable. Not to say that cruise line crew members shouldn't receive respect, but at the same time they are waiting on people with enough money to pay for a cruise and unfortunately not all of those guests are respectful.

Most people in the military do NOT join to serve their country. They join for personal reasons. I have met one person who joined for patriotic reasons and he ended up doing everything he could to get kicked out because the lifestyle just wasn't for him. Most people join for the benefits and steady paycheck.

 

[artemis908]

In the book....and in some of the posts here, it's explained that there are CREW members, and then there are STAFF members. Staff, like the spa, entertainment, art auctioneer, etc...have a different set of "rules" than the crew does.


Again...I'll say this....I'm sorry that I never worked on a ship and don't have the exact 100% facts......all I was saying is that it's an interesting book.
It bothers me that this turned into one of those threads where a lot of people feel the need to argue or say "Well, I talked to so-and-so on the ship, and THEY said...."

No reason to be bothered, we're just all having a conversation right? I don't think anyone is taking each other's opinions as an insult or anything.

 

[justmestace]

They would leave if it wasn't good for them in some way. Weather they are making money to send home, or making money for save for college while having an adventure (the one drink server on deck from Australia we spoke to one time) or just working at a job they genuinely enjoy. They have all chose this lifestyle for their own reason. They are not being held hostage....If they work a tipped position and were not making enough money they can and will leave. (MOST cruisers are NOT on the Dis, and therefore, I would assume most are tipping minimum recommended tips and people are staying with the job, which means it is suiting their situation they are in for the time being at the very least) You see or hear about servers and room hostesses and entertainers that have been on the ships for many years, if it was awful they wouldn't stay with the company. At the very least it is a better situation, or more money or just more fun, than they are able to get/have someplace else.

People on here invest so much emotion and thought and worry into the entire tipping deal, and how much money these folks make. It makes no sense to me. It's their job, they are doing it to make money. Do you leave extra money(more than standard 15-20%) for your waiter/waitress who (unless they work in a handful of states ) makes less than standard minimum wage hourly because he/she MIGHT be struggling at home? Or sending money to her child that lives with grandma and grandpa? Probably not. (wait staff starting rate hourly is less than $5 in most states-at least 30 of them)You tip on service.

One thing that I took away from the book is that most of the people working on cruise ships DON'T have any other choice. I think I told the story of the man who was a stateroom host, cleaning toilets, when he was a DOCTOR back in his country, but because of the loss of tourism due to an Al Qaeda bombing, there weren't any jobs.

There will always be the young people, or the ones from more affluent countries like the U.S. and Australia, who are in it for the fun, adventure, opportunities, etc.....but not most of them.

If you look hard enough anywhere, you'll find people who are happy in their work, and unhappy. But I think when the average cruise ship employee smiles widely and says "I LOVE my job"...unless they're in a really fun position with a lot of freedom, they're lying through their teeth, because they know that if they complain, they'll lose the only job they're able to get.

 

[shburks]

I agree wholeheartedly. Especially now that my youngest child has joined the military. BUT......I honestly don't think there's much of a comparison....for many reasons. One being that joining the military is a choice (right now)....my son is smart enough to have gone to med school or law school, but this was his choice. Another being the pay and benefits. Another being the opportunity for current and future education.

Joining the military is a choice as is working on a cruise ship! My post was just a response to those who were talking about low pay, poor living conditions, sharing a cabin, time away from their families, supporting a family in another country, limited time to see their families, etc. I only meant to remind people that there are lots of Americans--American military members--who are doing the same thing.

Most people in the military do NOT join to serve their country. They join for personal reasons. I have met one person who joined for patriotic reasons and he ended up doing everything he could to get kicked out because the lifestyle just wasn't for him. Most people join for the benefits and steady paycheck.

I know you're a supporter of veterans, and I'm surprised and saddened to hear that you don't know more who join for patriotic reasons. My husband has been active duty for 17+ years, and I cannot tell you how many people we know or have met over the years who joined for patriotic reasons...wanting to serve their country, support their country, carry on a family tradition of serving, etc. So many of our younger troops (both officer and enlisted) remember 9/11 as teens or young adults and signed up in response to that. Absolutely people sign up for benefits/paycheck but I KNOW there are many who sign up for other reasons, too.

As another pp said, they both work their tails off for very little payoff. I really wasn't trying to compare the two. Just a polite reminder that cruise ship employees aren't the only ones who have little time off, away from families, no pool access, etc! Perhaps I'm just feeling nostalgic today with 9/11 or perhaps because I'm preparing to be the wife "left behind" as her husband deploys, I wanted to remember our troops all over the world.

 

[kamik86]

One thing that I took away from the book is that most of the people working on cruise ships DON'T have any other choice. I think I told the story of the man who was a stateroom host, cleaning toilets, when he was a DOCTOR back in his country, but because of the loss of tourism due to an Al Qaeda bombing, there weren't any jobs.

There will always be the young people, or the ones from more affluent countries like the U.S. and Australia, who are in it for the fun, adventure, opportunities, etc.....but not most of them.

If you look hard enough anywhere, you'll find people who are happy in their work, and unhappy. But I think when the average cruise ship employee smiles widely and says "I LOVE my job"...unless they're in a really fun position with a lot of freedom, they're lying through their teeth, because they know that if they complain, they'll lose the only job they're able to get.

I am always amused by those that say "but what if they have no choice" because what do you want to do? If you were to make the job amazing. Pay them double and make the conditions much nicer well then 2 things are likely to happen
1) More Americans, Australians and those from the UK will like the job for the adventure as its not so hard. That will make it harder for the person from a poorer country to get a job (more competition) and now you are limiting there options more.
2) There is now less space on the ship for guests (crew has more space) and it costs more to cruise (cause your paying them more) both of these mean less people are cruising and now they need less people to work... again less jobs.

the problem really isn't so simple to fix as to say "cruise lines should pay their people more and provide better living conditions."

 

[sissy_ib]

Joining the military is a choice as is working on a cruise ship! My post was just a response to those who were talking about low pay, poor living conditions, sharing a cabin, time away from their families, supporting a family in another country, limited time to see their families, etc. I only meant to remind people that there are lots of Americans--American military members--who are doing the same thing.



I know you're a supporter of veterans, and I'm surprised and saddened to hear that you don't know more who join for patriotic reasons. My husband has been active duty for 17+ years, and I cannot tell you how many people we know or have met over the years who joined for patriotic reasons...wanting to serve their country, support their country, carry on a family tradition of serving, etc. So many of our younger troops (both officer and enlisted) remember 9/11 as teens or young adults and signed up in response to that. Absolutely people sign up for benefits/paycheck but I KNOW there are many who sign up for other reasons, too.

As another pp said, they both work their tails off for very little payoff. I really wasn't trying to compare the two. Just a polite reminder that cruise ship employees aren't the only ones who have little time off, away from families, no pool access, etc! Perhaps I'm just feeling nostalgic today with 9/11 or perhaps because I'm preparing to be the wife "left behind" as her husband deploys, I wanted to remember our troops all over the world.

I'm not just a supporter of veterans, I am one. My DH is active duty. My brother is a combat vet with PTSD. I do know a lot of patriotic people who have severed or are serving, but only the one who joined directly because of that.

And I agree with you. I see all these posts about people wanting to bring crew members treats when I think that time, energy, and money would be better spent sending care packages to Afghanistan or even to the young enlisted people at a local base. But that is JMHO.

I absolutely feel the CMs should be given respect and we should pay the recommended tips. But when I am on vacation I don't owe them anything just because they left their country.

 

[Clotho]

I am not sure how this turned into a "BUT MILITARY HAS IT WAY HARDER" debate.

justmestace, I think it is a very interesting discussion you started, even if it is derailing a bit. I don't think the point of your post was to compare to anything, or make it into a debate over the toughest jobs in the world. I "get" that it was interesting and you wanted to share.

I also "get" that we all find little ways to make our world a little better. Some people send care packages to the military, some volunteer in soup kitchens, some pick up the mail for an elderly neighbor who has a hard time getting down their front stairs, and some people bring little extra gifts for their cruise ship crew to show them how much their work is appreciated. I don't think anyone is lesser than any other, and I don't think anything we can do which brings another person joy is ever a waste of time. So please, folks, stop telling the OP about how her thoughts and ideas are somehow wrong, and instead see all the empathy she gained for some other human beings through what she read, and the kindness she now is compelled to do for others as a result. That is a positive thing, and shouldn't be shot down!

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I DID say that I personally think that DCL has higher standards for their crew and staff. At least, I certainly hope so, and it's true, from what I've heard from their CM's.

I also said that the author only mentions Disney once...and that was just in passing while he said he'd auditioned for them. He says he worked contracts for 5 years on several different lines, but he only mentions his first contract, which only lasted 2 weeks...yep, two WEEKS....on an older Carnival ship and then another on a Royal Caribbean ship.

I'm really sorry, because I only wanted to point out some interesting reading, and mention that under the conditions these people work, I PERSONALLY will think about tipping better. I had no intention of starting a war.

Gee a war on the dizboards.............never.

I agree with all you said.it is interersting reading and lreaning about behind the scenes stuff.


So I pose the next question..........Who here would be willing to pay more on any line to see that conditions these hard working guys and gals work under is improved?


(now there will likely be a war!)

AKK

 

[shburks]

I am not sure how this turned into a "BUT MILITARY HAS IT WAY HARDER" debate.

justmestace, I think it is a very interesting discussion you started, even if it is derailing a bit. I don't think the point of your post was to compare to anything, or make it into a debate over the toughest jobs in the world. I "get" that it was interesting and you wanted to share.

I also "get" that we all find little ways to make our world a little better. Some people send care packages to the military, some volunteer in soup kitchens, some pick up the mail for an elderly neighbor who has a hard time getting down their front stairs, and some people bring little extra gifts for their cruise ship crew to show them how much their work is appreciated. I don't think anyone is lesser than any other, and I don't think anything we can do which brings another person joy is ever a waste of time. So please, folks, stop telling the OP about how her thoughts and ideas are somehow wrong, and instead see all the empathy she gained for some other human beings through what she read, and the kindness she now is compelled to do for others as a result. That is a positive thing, and shouldn't be shot down!

Since I was the initial one who wrote the military post, please read both of my posts. I did not write them with the intention of trying to say the military had it worse! I never said that. I was only making the point that there are other people/jobs besides cruise line employees who experience low pay, family separations, don't have large private rooms/cabins/quarters, etc.

I certainly never said to the OP that they were wrong. Just trying to show a similar experience in a different career field!

 

[justmestace]

I am not sure how this turned into a "BUT MILITARY HAS IT WAY HARDER" debate.

justmestace, I think it is a very interesting discussion you started, even if it is derailing a bit. I don't think the point of your post was to compare to anything, or make it into a debate over the toughest jobs in the world. I "get" that it was interesting and you wanted to share.

I also "get" that we all find little ways to make our world a little better. Some people send care packages to the military, some volunteer in soup kitchens, some pick up the mail for an elderly neighbor who has a hard time getting down their front stairs, and some people bring little extra gifts for their cruise ship crew to show them how much their work is appreciated. I don't think anyone is lesser than any other, and I don't think anything we can do which brings another person joy is ever a waste of time. So please, folks, stop telling the OP about how her thoughts and ideas are somehow wrong, and instead see all the empathy she gained for some other human beings through what she read, and the kindness she now is compelled to do for others as a result. That is a positive thing, and shouldn't be shot down!

Thanks so much!! I'm glad you and a few others understood me.

 

[sissy_ib]

I am not sure how this turned into a "BUT MILITARY HAS IT WAY HARDER" debate.

justmestace, I think it is a very interesting discussion you started, even if it is derailing a bit. I don't think the point of your post was to compare to anything, or make it into a debate over the toughest jobs in the world. I "get" that it was interesting and you wanted to share.

I also "get" that we all find little ways to make our world a little better. Some people send care packages to the military, some volunteer in soup kitchens, some pick up the mail for an elderly neighbor who has a hard time getting down their front stairs, and some people bring little extra gifts for their cruise ship crew to show them how much their work is appreciated. I don't think anyone is lesser than any other, and I don't think anything we can do which brings another person joy is ever a waste of time. So please, folks, stop telling the OP about how her thoughts and ideas are somehow wrong, and instead see all the empathy she gained for some other human beings through what she read, and the kindness she now is compelled to do for others as a result. That is a positive thing, and shouldn't be shot down!

Others, myself included, are just sharing their opinions. For some reasons when it comes to cruise CMs people want to point out how hard their lives are and how we, as passengers should be extra kind to them. This is backwards logic. Yes, I get it is their job to smile and look happy. That is why I go on vacation or to a restaurant or the spa. If I go to a restaurant and get bad service I don't care how good the food is I will think twice before going there again. If I get a pedicure and the nail tech is rude to me I wont go back no matter how good it looks. Same with a cruise or resort. If the CMs were sad looking and telling everyone how much they hate their jobs I would not go back on DCL. I would not give them a pass because life on the ship is hard. Anyone in customer service needs to smile and do their job. I treat everyone with respect but it is not my job to make sure they have a nice day. It is their job to make sure I have a great vacation and keep spending my money with Disney.

 

[justmestace]

Since I was the initial one who wrote the military post, please read both of my posts. I did not write them with the intention of trying to say the military had it worse! I never said that. I was only making the point that there are other people/jobs besides cruise line employees who experience low pay, family separations, don't have large private rooms/cabins/quarters, etc.

I certainly never said to the OP that they were wrong. Just trying to show a similar experience in a different career field!

I get that, too...thanks. I like to read books about military experience & also military history, too. It's all really interesting. I know for a fact that I couldn't handle life onboard OR in the military. And I am SO SO grateful that there are people who can. Oh....police and firefighters, too.

 

[justmestace]

Gee a war on the dizboards.............never.

I agree with all you said.it is interersting reading and lreaning about behind the scenes stuff.


So I pose the next question..........Who here would be willing to pay more on any line to see that conditions these hard working guys and gals work under is improved?


(now there will likely be a war!)

AKK

That's actually a really good question, even though you made me chuckle....and trust me, I NEEDED that chuckle!!


Being a skeptic, I'd want to know for sure that if the price of a cruise went up in order to provide better wages for the crew, I'd want proof.
I honestly think our military men and women could be better compensated, too, and if I were in any position to do so (President, Congress, whatever) I'd figure out a way to quit wasting money and direct it toward what I feel is important, like our service men and women.

When I mention waste, I'm thinking of the amount of money I've read that the gov't spends on things like hammers, when they're so cheap at Sears.

 

[DarthTod]

Gee a war on the dizboards.............never.

I agree with all you said.it is interersting reading and lreaning about behind the scenes stuff.

So I pose the next question..........Who here would be willing to pay more on any line to see that conditions these hard working guys and gals work under is improved?

(now there will likely be a war!)

AKK

Great question. I for one can pay more, and would. However, I think the pricing as it stands now is already keeping cruises below capacity. And that of course impacts employment. If you were to set pay at an American scale, cruising would become prohibitively expensive. Tipping becomes an equalizer in these situations. No one should be forced into it, however. I will respectfully disagree with those that think the wages these folk receive along with the base tips are enough.

Personally, I tip heavily because I can - as long as the service warrants it. I still remember working for low wages and know what a difference a little extra can make when chasing your dreams.

And for the record, I'm a veteran, and I joined for the college money.

 

[Clotho]

Since I was the initial one who wrote the military post, please read both of my posts. I did not write them with the intention of trying to say the military had it worse! I never said that. I was only making the point that there are other people/jobs besides cruise line employees who experience low pay, family separations, don't have large private rooms/cabins/quarters, etc.

I was speaking of the people who took what you wrote and twisted it into a "which is harder" discussion.

 

[ProgressCity]

I'm personal friends with several people who have been crew members on Disney ships and I know many others that I would consider acquaintances. Every single one of them wants to go back to their crew positions (and these were not high ranking crew members). Most of them left because their life situations changed or they got transferred to a different ship and wanted to try some time on land since they were going to have to make all new friendship anyway. Every single one of them wants to get contracts to get back onboard.

I've never met a DCL crew member who disliked their job. Plenty of cast members complain about their jobs, but I've never heard it from a DCL crew member (and rarely from DCL cast).

 

[Disney Gnome]

I was told by a DCL Cast Member that every ship has a full time person whose job it is to organize events for the employees on the ship. She said that they also have a separate crew area at Castaway Cay and she gets a Castaway Cay date once every two or three cruises. They rotate so everyone can get a day. She told me that there is a very active social life onboard but you have to be a social person to enjoy it. She mentioned that people who are introverted do not enjoy their job and it takes a certain personality to truly enjoy it which makes sense. She did mention that she missed family back home but that she had made so many friends on the ship that it wasn't so bad. I find it hard to believe that the employees could appear as engaged, smiling and friendly as they are if they are miserable. I tip more because I am lucky enough to be able to and I really feel that they do an excellent, above and beyond, job every time I cruise.

 

[CruznLexi]

My husband enjoyed his job and would still be there if we were not married.

 

[Bonniec]

Since I read the book too, I want to make it clear that the author was not whining about working on a ship. Only certain aspects of it. He found more positive things than negative and did it for 5 years. I also read the article (I'll see if I can find it) written by the DCL worker and her story was similar, though she didn't last as long.

Personally, I think the living conditions are ridiculous. You can google DCL crew member rooms and see a pic of how small those rooms are. The insane hours they work and the food they eat just seems bad. Add to that the classing system (i.e. officers and staff having nicer rooms and food than the crew) seems awful (not sure what that part is like on DCL). But again, these people chose that as their job and go back time and again. So the perks (friendship, travel, etc) over-rides the negatives. I could see this being a fun job for a young, single person. If I were young, I might want to give it a whirl. But for a 41-year-old-married-fart such as myself....no thanks!

So I pose the next question..........Who here would be willing to pay more on any line to see that conditions these hard working guys and gals work under is improved?

No.

Not because I don't think they deserve more, I do! But because we all know where that money would eventually go. In corporate hands.
We usually tip high anyway for things and I budgeted our tips to be quite a bit higher. But I think I'll budget even more now. If we get really great service, I'd love to be able to do something special back. (I also have no problems lowering tips of things are bad and don't improve after speaking up.)


ETA: Here is that article

You'll have to click the link at the bottom to start at the beginning. Also, it was written in 2007 so things may be different.

Again, it's not like you should feel sorry for someone working in that position. Clearly they love what they do and choose to do it time and again. But I think it's good to be aware of what it's like.