Advice for planning trip with dsd... w/ venting

[amsyw]

Ok some background first. I have a ds 12, ds 2 and then step daughter that is 11. Somewhere along about 2-3 years ago she became so attached to her mother that our (meaning dh AND myself) relationship with her has significantly changed... meaning she doesn't really like coming to our house or visiting with us.... unless she is getting something... ie christmas, birthday presents or if we are going somewhere she likes to go. While I think this is sad and I would call her bluff and not take her anywhere or buy her much until she changes her tune, dh loves her and can't see the forest for the trees! He thinks if we continue to cater to her whims that she will eventually come around. (Having said that he does see that she puts stressers on our family... didn't want anyone to think he was oblivious to whats going on.)

She has always gone to WDW with us, last year's trip rolls around and She decided NOT to go!!!! We were shocked. This decision was made 2 weeks before the trip. We had already purchased tix and made ressies for dining. I had to call and make changes to the ressies and in order to do that we were actually given different times.

So this year's trip is in the works, we have never gone at Christmas time and since I thought she would probably never go on a trip with us again, I decided we would plan a Magical Christmas. DH tells dsd over the weekend that we are planning to go and low and behold... SHE WANTS TO GO! ?!?!? Now what?

We still have her ticket from last year that she can use, but I was planning on using it for ds and not have to to spend the extra money on a tix for him. The ticket issue is not AS big of a deal as I know that if she doesn't use it we WILL go back and eventually it will get used. I just don't like knowing that we might spend the extra AGAIN and that ticket still sits at home unused.

And what about ressies... If I make them and then she backs out last minute I may have a hard time getting them changed.

The other thing is that her mom will NOT let her miss school for a trip, if she goes we will leave the day after Christmas and be there the week of New Years, if she doesn't go then we would probably go the week before Christmas and let ds miss a few days of school.

I told her that this was a decision that once made up was set in stone! We normally drive, but are planning to fly, so I will be fuming if I buy her an airline ticket and she backs out.

Ok enough... what to do?????

Any experience dealing with step kids in this scenario?

btw... her father and I have been married since she was 3 so this isn't a new family experience for her. I have been in her life as long as she can remember!

any help would be extremely appreciated!

 

[mom2alix]

Plan your dining ADRs with her, but don't sweat it if she cancels. We had a trip with DMIL where she decided to spend more time at the resort and wasn't with us for some ADRs. It was not problem, except for CRT where I had prepaid (but that's a whole 'nother story). Showing up with 1 fewer person is not a big deal. They have a problem if you show up with an extra person and the table won't accomodate that many.

You can also wait and buy the ticket at Guest Services when you get there. That way you'll know for sure that you need the ticket before you buy it.

Hope you guys have a great trip! I have a lot of family near you and I'm SO jealous of you guys having those direct flight with Allegiant Air now. We still have to drive to KC to get direct flights to Orlando!

 

[MRYPPNS]

That's a hard situation. At that age I would hazard a guess that she could change her mind again. If I was her father I would give her another chance and plan to include her with the understanding that she won't be asked again to go on future trips for a while if she changes her mind again for this trip.
Like you said...don't worry about the ticket...that cash has already been spent. Your little one can use it in a few years. Don't change your ADR's! It's no big deal to show up with fewer people. (I've done it). When you buy her plane ticket make sure it's refundable. Not much you can do about which week you go after the fact. If it were my family I would tell all the kids that this trip is a Christmas present as it costs a lot of money and not to expect "Santa" to bring you much more. That might make her think about it in a different light. You didn't mention if she got any sort of punishment for canceling 2 weeks out on the last trip. I know that might sound harsh to some, but how are kids going to learn that breaking big commitments isn't the right thing to do if there isn't any conquences.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Bren's Mom]

Having some of the same issues with my dss who's 13. We're going on vacation when school ends this year with extended family (non-Dis vacation) and before my parents purchased plane tickets for us (trip is a gift from my parents) I told dh that once the decision was made and non-refundable money spent for dss he was coming. Period. And that HE had to enforce that. We've already heard the grumbling but he WILL go...and no doubt he'll have a great time while we're there. For Dis next year we won't give him an option...we wouldn't dream of taking one child and not the other...years later we know we'd never hear the end of it! So for that trip we'll coordinate dates with his mom and once our decision is made it will be final.

 

[pyrxtc]

Hvaing a DSD 2 yrs older, I feel your pain. I have had our issues and it was probably about the exact age yours is now.

I think what I would do is let her see the cost for her to go and make her understand that if she changes her mind, she will be paying for anything that is non-refundable. So anything that cannot be used for future date or for someone else, then she will be paying it off eihter by with-holding her allowance (if she gets any) or making her work it off around the house til it is paid back. Make her do stuff she doesn't normally do.

My DD, not DSD, had to pay me off for her winter hats she was always losing and a few other things last year.

We have gone on vacation without DSD and will continue to go when she does not want to go or her mother won't let her.

How does she know when you are going somewhere? Can you stop telling her what your plans are and she either comes or doesn't and either gets to play or misses out? Sometimes she will get to spend a weekend at home with all of you and not go anywhere. I wouldn't take her shopping unless you were already going and you were buying something for everyone.

One mroe question... Will her mom let you take her for x-mas vacation?

 

[lntsmom]

I'd tell her that since she didn't want to go last year you had no idea she'd want to go this year, so you already booked your trip for a week that she will be in school. Since her mom won't let her miss school there's just no way that she'll be able to go with you this time.

It will be good for her to have to deal with the consequences of her actions. If she is going to behave unpredictably, she may get left out from time-to-time.

 

[Darcy03231]

I'd tell her that since she didn't want to go last year you had no idea she'd want to go this year, so you already booked your trip for a week that she will be in school. Since her mom won't let her miss school there's just no way that she'll be able to go with you this time.

It will be good for her to have to deal with the consequences of her actions. If she is going to behave unpredictably, she may get left out from time-to-time.

I completely disagree with this. You'll get nowhere by causing problems between her and her mother.

I would include her on this trip and like a PP said buy a refundable airline ticket for her and don't buy her ticket to the parks until you get there. Also, let her know that if she cancels on you at the last minute again you won't be including her in any more big trips. 11 is a difficult age for a girl (I have a dd - now 16 and a dsd - now 20). Believe me they are not the most reasonable creatures from about 11-16.

 

[ldo]

You and your DH need to have a "family" meeting with her to plan the trip---explain to her that you are delighted that she wants to go and you are arranging a time that she can go. BUT--explain that you are traveling at a particular time for HER school and do a little spreadsheet to show her how much the trip costs--and that it is important for her to understand that once she commits, it is not "fair" to cancel b/c she changes her mind, a friend has a better offer, etc.
Then, DH needs to talk to his ex and explain that he is CHANGING the week of the trip for his DD and buying plane tickets and that it is important that ex understand this and the SHE also commits to the trip on behalf of DD.
Usually refundable tickets are $$$--so I would buy a nonrefundable one and hope for the best. IF you are not getting a package--just buy other DS a WDW ticket at the hotel.
NOW--if DSD or ex cancels trip for any reason other than illness---don't make a big deal about it (not worth it)--just remind them that they committed to it--and the NEXT trip that costs any extra for DSD to go will be the time to explain those consequences.
I think it is more important to risk losing a some bucks than to keep DD from going on the trip---it is not logical and it's not necessarily fair to everyone--but she's only 11--ps if she wants souvenirs/stuff--she gets the same amount as the other kids--or she needs to bring her own $$$!! good luck.

 

[Tam1067]

Please be understanding of her.

She's 11. Most 11 year old girls are miserable, aren't they?

She's also obviously stuck in the middle between her mom, her dad, and you. I do not know the family dynamics or history, and frankly, no one on this board has her take on the family or her mom's, but really, you need to remember that she's the outsider in your family (she lives with her mom, right?), and I'm sure she knows it.


I also have a friend whose fiancee is jealous of his 11 year old daughter and complains about him spending too much time with her, and I'll tell you that it's an ugly situation for all involved. Though you haven't said you resent her, it seems like you might, and again, that's really bad for all of you. She could be playing some games to get the attention or to get her dad to prove that he still loves her. I'm not saying that's good, but I'm saying it's understandable.

Please don't take offense at this. I just feel bad for her caught up in such drama.

I would plan on her going with you. If she backs out, she backs out. Next year, her dad should decide what to do about it. And if I were you, I'd let your DH call the shots here because she's his daughter.

 

[Allison]

I'm not in a situation to have stepchildren but to me the answer to this is easy. She is your husband's daughter and you should plan to take her. There is no need to worry about the ADR's. If you show up with one less, they won't care. As you said, you can use the ticket later.

I agree with telling her she needs to make a decision and once she does, she is committed to it.

 

[amsyw]

Thanks guys... I know that I'm stressing over things that I have only some control over! I guess I didn't think about just showing up for ressies with less people, that makes sense. Last year I called to change from 5 to 4 and on a couple they totally changed our eating time. We aren't doing any dining that would have to be prepaid, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I could just buy the WDW ticket for her once we get there, that would save that headache. The biggest issue is the airline ticket. We told the kids that this trip would be the big gift for Christmas and that we would give them some $$ for spending while there. So I guess if she decides last minute to cancel after I have bought airline tix, I can chaulk up the cost of the ticket to Christmas, with her understanding before hand that if she cancels (after the ticket is bought) she doesn't get something else in its place.

I figured I would buy some clothes for wearing while there for a couple gifts. They both (older DS and DSD) trade pins, so I thought I would get busy on ebay getting some of them bought to give them also.

We have ALWAYS made them save up their own money for the majority of souvineers. With going at Christmas we have made it CLEAR that there would be less "gifts" to open.

As one PP posted that they would just plan and MAKE the child go, that is not an option here... I don't know when, but somewhere down the line, dsd became able to make adult decisions that she should not be making. It can be our weekend for her to come here and she will just tell her mom to call and say she doesn't want to come... DH doesn't like to make a stink... so nothing happens. I'm not sure why, He is very strong willed on certain things but when it comes to ex-wife and daughter, he won't cause waves. I told him last year, that her going shouldn't be up to her, that we should tell ex wife what time we would be there to pick her up and when she would be home. End of story, but no. According to their divorce papers we should have her about 1/2 of summer, but it is NEVER convenient!????? And we only live 30 minutes away, so if there was something she needed to be home for we could certainly get her there. To top that, she takes her to camp all summer because she works full time, I work part time and DH works nights, so there is ALWAYS someone home, she could come to our house 1/2 the summer and ex wife could save some $$. But that would be in our benefit so that won't work. ??? Have I said that DH's ex wife is psycho? Ok... onto new news...

The biggest problem is the ex is she has never moved on and never remarried or really even dated. So dsd has become her partner or equal instead of a parent/child relationship. She allows her to make adult decisions, but worse than that, she puts unspoken guilt on her... ie, making her feel guilty because she left mommy at home alone all weekend/for vacations and she was lonely without her there. DSD is her LIFE. and she has actually said that to us, and in front of dsd. While my kids are a HUGE part of my life I don't place that kind of weight on their shoulders and I do make "me" time and make them understand how VERY important it is. DH and I take weekend trips alone occasionally etc.

Anyway, thanks for the support, I will keep everyone updated! Either way I will be having a GREAT trip!

 

[Allison]

That is a tough situation. Good luck and I don't just mean with the Disney trip.

I think you have a good perspective on the trip and it sounds like you have a good plan on how to handle it.

By the way, we went over Christmas week this year and we had a WONDERFUL time. I know people worry about the crowds but it wasn't a problem for us because we did our touring in the mornings.

 

[minkydog]

This is just sad. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive an 11yo girl who caused you some financial trouble and can't make up her mind. No wonder she's so attached to her mother.

 

[tjmw2727]

I think you should include her and I don't think that she should be held responsible for making that big a decision. 12yos decide what to have for lunch, what to wear, etc and don't always do that well. Maybe she made a mistake last year - I would hope any child would be given a 2nd chance.

I would include her if she wants to go and make it clear that she is welcome. If your still leary that she may change her mind then leave yourself options. Dropping one person from an ADR's is no big deal we have done it fairly often when traveling with extended family for one reason or another. Purchase airfar that is refundable or use an airline that has no change fees like SWA or low change fees like Jet Blue. Wait until you get to Disney to purchase tickets and you won't have any worries.

Can you try and get everyone excited by planning together? Perhaps this will start the baby steps to make your time together more enjoyable without gifts?

Good luck -
TJ

 

[DevilDuckie]

Please be understanding of her.

She's 11. Most 11 year old girls are miserable, aren't they?

She's also obviously stuck in the middle between her mom, her dad, and you. I do not know the family dynamics or history, and frankly, no one on this board has her take on the family or her mom's, but really, you need to remember that she's the outsider in your family (she lives with her mom, right?), and I'm sure she knows it.


I also have a friend whose fiancee is jealous of his 11 year old daughter and complains about him spending too much time with her, and I'll tell you that it's an ugly situation for all involved. Though you haven't said you resent her, it seems like you might, and again, that's really bad for all of you. She could be playing some games to get the attention or to get her dad to prove that he still loves her. I'm not saying that's good, but I'm saying it's understandable.

Please don't take offense at this. I just feel bad for her caught up in such drama.

I would plan on her going with you. If she backs out, she backs out. Next year, her dad should decide what to do about it. And if I were you, I'd let your DH call the shots here because she's his daughter.

This just saved me a whole lot of typing. I agree completely with all of it.

 

[mommytobug]

I hope you dont think I am harsh when I share my views. I can imagine how hard it must be to be in your shoes. BUT, she is 11. I have a 9 year old. She is sometimes attached to me at the hip, other times not. She can be very independent one minute and very dependent the next. She is experiencing signs of puberty and I can remember those years- very difficult! I have no idea how it feels to be in your situation, but I do know that children come first. While it is hard for you, she is your husbands daughter. She always will be. She does NOT need to feel your pressure. Plan the vacation and invite her. Plan for her to be there and if she is not, then so be it. Do you think you may have some hidden feelings about all of this? It sure shows in your post. You want your vacation to be a special "family" vacation. She IS your family. As far her mom, my mother had a friend who never remarried. She did not want anyone else raising her children. This is really the reason why. That was her choice. She was an attractive, loving woman who made a choice. As far visitation, I commend your husband for being so laid back with it. Many couples argue over times, etc. I think it is very sad that you will tell her that she has no Christmas if she does not go. Do you dislike her? It really sounds like you do. I am sorry but wanting to give you some things to consider and by no means am I trying to be harsh. I know you want everything planned but sounds like some flexibility may pay off in the end. When you married your husband, you made a committment to him and his daughter.

 

[badblackpug]

Thanks guys... I know that I'm stressing over things that I have only some control over! I guess I didn't think about just showing up for ressies with less people, that makes sense. Last year I called to change from 5 to 4 and on a couple they totally changed our eating time. We aren't doing any dining that would have to be prepaid, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I could just buy the WDW ticket for her once we get there, that would save that headache. The biggest issue is the airline ticket. We told the kids that this trip would be the big gift for Christmas and that we would give them some $$ for spending while there. So I guess if she decides last minute to cancel after I have bought airline tix, I can chaulk up the cost of the ticket to Christmas, with her understanding before hand that if she cancels (after the ticket is bought) she doesn't get something else in its place.

I figured I would buy some clothes for wearing while there for a couple gifts. They both (older DS and DSD) trade pins, so I thought I would get busy on ebay getting some of them bought to give them also.

We have ALWAYS made them save up their own money for the majority of souvineers. With going at Christmas we have made it CLEAR that there would be less "gifts" to open.

As one PP posted that they would just plan and MAKE the child go, that is not an option here... I don't know when, but somewhere down the line, dsd became able to make adult decisions that she should not be making. It can be our weekend for her to come here and she will just tell her mom to call and say she doesn't want to come... DH doesn't like to make a stink... so nothing happens. I'm not sure why, He is very strong willed on certain things but when it comes to ex-wife and daughter, he won't cause waves. I told him last year, that her going shouldn't be up to her, that we should tell ex wife what time we would be there to pick her up and when she would be home. End of story, but no. According to their divorce papers we should have her about 1/2 of summer, but it is NEVER convenient!????? And we only live 30 minutes away, so if there was something she needed to be home for we could certainly get her there. To top that, she takes her to camp all summer because she works full time, I work part time and DH works nights, so there is ALWAYS someone home, she could come to our house 1/2 the summer and ex wife could save some $$. But that would be in our benefit so that won't work. ??? Have I said that DH's ex wife is psycho? Ok... onto new news...

The biggest problem is the ex is she has never moved on and never remarried or really even dated. So dsd has become her partner or equal instead of a parent/child relationship. She allows her to make adult decisions, but worse than that, she puts unspoken guilt on her... ie, making her feel guilty because she left mommy at home alone all weekend/for vacations and she was lonely without her there. DSD is her LIFE. and she has actually said that to us, and in front of dsd. While my kids are a HUGE part of my life I don't place that kind of weight on their shoulders and I do make "me" time and make them understand how VERY important it is. DH and I take weekend trips alone occasionally etc.

Anyway, thanks for the support, I will keep everyone updated! Either way I will be having a GREAT trip!

I think you are married to my ex husband! We had many of the same issues with his daughter....and with him. He never wanted to "make waves" or "start an argument." So he pretty much allowed his daughters' mother to violate visitation in any way she chose.

Have some sympathy for the child. She feels guilty for leaving mom "alone" and she feels disloyal for enjoying her time with you and hub. She probably, on some level, feels that it is not worth the guilt and pain she will feel about mom, unless it is for something special. She probably does not feel the same way about disapointing you because you do not "guilt trip" her.

I would sit down with Sd and explain to her how expensive this WHOLE trip is. Not how expensive it is to "add" her. I think this would just make her feel like an extra. I would explain to her that you were disappointed that she backed out, mostly because you missed having fun and spending time with her, but also because you lost money. Explain to her that this is a special trip at a special time of year, and that once she commits to going, she will not be able to back out. Then give her a specified amount of time to "decide." After that, it will be written in stone. period.

As stepmom your hands are tied. But, much like my situatuon, these problems are more about your husbands behavior than your Sd's. He is the adult and she is the child, it is up to him to tell her what will be. He needs to enforce the visitation agreement. He has the means (the court system) to do so, and it is up to him to use it.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I'd tell her that since she didn't want to go last year you had no idea she'd want to go this year, so you already booked your trip for a week that she will be in school. Since her mom won't let her miss school there's just no way that she'll be able to go with you this time.

It will be good for her to have to deal with the consequences of her actions. If she is going to behave unpredictably, she may get left out from time-to-time.

And the mother could just blame it on the "evil stepmother".

"She planned the trip during the school year because she didn't want you to go with "her family."

I told him last year, that her going shouldn't be up to her, that we should tell ex wife what time we would be there to pick her up and when she would be home. End of story, but no. According to their divorce papers we should have her about 1/2 of summer, but it is NEVER convenient!????? And we only live 30 minutes away, so if there was something she needed to be home for we could certainly get her there. To top that, she takes her to camp all summer because she works full time, I work part time and DH works nights, so there is ALWAYS someone home, she could come to our house 1/2 the summer and ex wife could save some $$. But that would be in our benefit so that won't work. ??? Have I said that DH's ex wife is psycho? Ok... onto new news...

How would you feel if you were divorced and your ex's new wife tried to dictate how you should raise your children?

This is just sad. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive an 11yo girl who caused you some financial trouble and can't make up her mind. No wonder she's so attached to her mother.

The kid is 11, of course she's going change her mind about things.

Heck my son is 16. I lost count of the number of times between June and December that he changed his mind about spending Christmas with his dad and stepmom.

There's no way in the world I'll ever force him to spend any time or vacation with him. The decision has always been his to make.

 

[amsyw]

I'm not complaining about her going or complaining about spending money on her. I AM complaining about spending money that goes out the window. I don't think I can be faulted for that. I would be equally upset if ds said he didn't want to go after everything had been pd for. We actually make a concerted effort to spend equally on our kids. So when dsd didn't go last year she actually got several souvies brought home to her.

I think it is very sad that you will tell her that she has no Christmas if she does not go. Do you dislike her? It really sounds like you do.

I'm not sure where you got that from. I never said that she has no Christmas if she does not go. We told them if we went that we would focus our Christmas giving on Disney related things.... ie clothes for the trip, souvies, money for them to spend etc. If she chooses not to go before the trip is booked, she would get her normal amount of Christmas gifts. What I DID say was that if she says she is going then after everything is booked and paid for then she backs out last minute that she doesn't get to get her "regular" Christmas too.

And to address another issue, we DID tell her how much we missed her on our last trip and told her she is ALWAYS welcome to come with us. We never went into the fact that money was spent on her that was wasted.

We have NEVER included either of our older kids in conversations about household money. We are NOT rich by any means, but we live a fairly comfortable life. I budget and save everywhere I possibly can, including getting the best deals on vacation. So the fact that money was or wasn't, will be or won't be spent isn't an issue that will be discussed with her. We only told her that we are happy that she would be going with us, and we would need to have a commitment to going before we start booking.

I think many of you are putting words in my mouth or feelings on me. I love dsd very much. And until a couple years ago we were VERY close. I know alot of it is puberty. But it is also her mom putting pressure on her to not like us. She says very rude things to us in front of dsd. It makes dsd feel bad. But she does live with her mom and so she feels loyalty to her mom. She makes dsd feel extremely bad for having a "good time" with her dad. She will come to our house and have a good visit then go home and when her mom asks her how the weekend was she makes up things to make things look bad. This has been confirmed on multiple occasions when ex called dh to find out what happened. When dh tells her things didn't happen that way he suggests that dsd is trying to make mom feel better by saying she had a bad weekend.

How would you feel if you were divorced and your ex's new wife tried to dictate how you should raise your children?

I'm not trying to dictate how she raises her, but I think DH should have some say... ? right, he is her father. You don't think he should have his court ordered visitations? The ex certainly doesn't think so, so in an effort to keep things smooth dh doesn't rock the boat. This kind of thing has gone on for YEARS. As I said we have been married since dsd was 3. The issues with the ex have always been there, the issues with dsd just started 1-2 years ago. Just when she was old enough to understand the guilt her mom placed on her for leaving her at home alone.

btw I AM divorced and my ex won't see my ds and it hurts ds and myself, I would rather we have the occasional rift than to see the hurt in my sons eyes. But since you didn't know that I can see how you could be so judgmental.

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

I think you are trying very hard, and it shows. My dad got remarried and my brother and I went on trip with him and his wife...she did not have any kids, so there was no tension there. However, I did feel bad leaving my mom. A LOT.

Even if the mom doesn't but guilt on the kid (my mom never did) I knew that she was alone and was very sad for her when we were out to dinner, she was not, we were at the beach, she was working, etc. I was just about 11, and it was a very confusing time for me.

I think that sitting down with the whole family next time she comes over (call it "Disney Planning Day" or something) could be great for all of you. Maybe let each kid pick a restaurant? Or 3 favorite rides? Or watch a planning video? Chances are that if she gets very excited and involved that even if her mom is guilt tripping her, she will still decide to go.

I know this can be a confusing situation...good luck!