Adventureland in MK to open at 10 a.m. daily beginning Sunday

[KNWVIKING]

***"Think about it! I mean really think about it. If WDW was just the two parks that Ei$ner built (MGM and AK) wouldn’t you rather spend the day in IOA? I would!!! And I wouldn't think twice about it. "***

Actually, AK is my favorite park, so the answer is no, I wouldn't rather spend a day at IOA. But that's just me.

 

[Planogirl]

I guess that my point is that I suspect that Universal/IOA is improving while WDW isn't. WDW is of course still way ahead but Universal is playing catch up in my opinion. I often believe that some people on the boards tear Universal down more than they should just to make WDW look better. But that shouldn't be necessary. I know that I mention my own experiences too often but they seem so different than what I often read here that I can't believe it sometimes. Besides, KNWViking suggested that someone should take a look at "sponge bob land" and I was just reporting what I saw. Plus I have a tendency to defend the downtrodden anyway and that even includes WDW when necessary.

But even if Universal were to somehow turn into the best resort in the world, that still wouldn't have an effect on WDW's problems. WDW is supposed to be the standard, it's not supposed to be 50% better than somewhere else and then maybe 30% better than somewhere else later on. Comparing the two seems so pointless to me because they're so different.

Mr Pirate, how about Disney fans? I know that I'm one.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Actually, AK is my favorite park, so the answer is no, I wouldn't rather spend a day at IOA. But that's just me.

OK! ‘Nuff said!

I was going to stop there. Obviously we will never see eye to eye on Disney. I read the above statement and really wonder what color the sky is in your world. You ignore all my glowing reports about Disney and remember only the negatives. We evidently see things radically different. I really don’t think there’s anything I could possibly say to make you understand the position that I or Matt or AV or Larry or the Frozen One (or anyone else who sees the slide Disney has taken) has on this type of issue.

But still, for old times sake, I will try once again. It comes down to philosophy. And NOTHING they have built lately has been built with the PHILOSOPHY that brought me to Disney in the first place. That wonderful sense of “Give the people everything you can give them”. You know, that quaint little saying that Walt used to use to explain his Business philosophy. Do you think the current regime EVER has that thought in mind?

No!! They are building things, and creating concepts, more in line with Universal or IOA or even Walmart!! Bottom line thinking. Market segments. How much can we get away with? How much do we HAVE to do?

They have turned that Disney ‘TOUCH’, that pixie dust laden “MAGIC”, into a commodity. The same as IOA. I see no difference today. Sometime IOA wins (Spiderman) and sometime WDW wins (Splash, ToT). Who cares!! It ain’t “Walt’s” Disney! It’s Disney®. And that’s the difference!!

I know it’s probably too much to ask, but…

Can you see the difference I’m talking about?

 

[Glenn]

I have to agree with the Baron that Disney has lost its old touch. Instead of building a Disney ride they build segment ride to compete with others. I like some thrill rides, tot, splash but when have they really built a Disney ride & im not talking about another show. Ive been going since mid 80s, its still a nice place but the magic of a very special place is growing dimmer.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Believe it or not I DO understand the philosophy that you Matt,AV, WFH and others refer to and most of it I actually agree with it to some degree. But. how many Car 3'ers will talk about all the GREAT new rides IOA/US build, but don't give any credit for M:S ? Based on the buzz from McPhilharmagic, from Scoop & posters who have actually seen it, what is your first impression- sight unseen ? Will you take an objective,open minded view of it, or will your distaste for all things ME blind you. If you TRUELY dislike it, no problem.

***" You ignore all my glowing reports about Disney and remember only the negatives. "***

I didn't ignore anything....did I miss a post ? When was your last "State of the Parks" address ? I honestly didn't see it. Give me your top three positives from this year.

AK: Why do you find it hard to believe AK could be someones favorite park ? Even with or without Dinorama.

 

[Another Voice]

"Will you take an objective,open minded view of it, or will your distaste for all things ME blind you. "

Because, Mr. Viking, in many of your last posts you simply dismiss anyone's opinion (other than your own) as being baselesss because it driven by blind hatred for Eisner, personal animosity, you-only-see-the-bad, or whatever convinent "you're a bad person, I don't have to listen to you" excuse you can come up with.

That's not playing nice.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the limited threads I have going. To get involved in a Disney love-fest, trading pins or comparing snow-globes (oops!) is, in my humble opinion, a total waste of time. That’s why I don’t respond to too many of the “LOOK AT THIS ISOLATED ‘THING’ AND ISN’T IT GREAT!!!” Yep! It’s just wonderful!! But… WHERE’S THE BUTTER!?

In other words, where is the philosophy that should be glaringly apparent in every corporate breath they take!! It shouldn’t be so obscure that it needs to be pointed out on an internet board as a shining, but lone example of the wonderful world!!!

So when I talk about IOA (and I believe this is the first time) I will point to a particular attraction and say, “GOOD GOD!!! EVEN IOA can do this!! WHY ISN’T DISNEY LIGHT-YEARS AHEAD!?!?” They used to be.

Or worse!! With something like Spiderman I lament that Disney was indeed surpassed!! And that’s just plain sad.

I haven’t been to M:S yet. I hoping it ‘exceeds’ my expectations. I fear it won’t from the various accounts I’ve heard. But, we’ll see. Philharmonic the same way. I’m hoping for a decent “D” Ticket. Like Lion King was. Like the Mickey Mouse Review was. I’ll be happy (Hell, I’ll be THRILLED) if that happens. But I’m not jumping up & down because of what a guy like Scoop says!!! Good grieve, give me some credit!!

Now, do you notice that I try my best not to get involved in these types of discussions? I mean the up and coming greatness of Disney!! This is why. It’s too disappointing. And Ei$ner doesn’t have a monopoly on it. My first disappointment came under the Walker/Miller era. That Western thing that shaped up to be only Thunder Mountain. MAN!! What a disappointment! I don’t think I’ve ever gotten over that one! Never mind all of them in-between!

AK: Why do you find it hard to believe AK could be someones favorite park ? Even with or without Dinorama.

Because the very concept seems to me to be ‘anti’-Disney. It was conceived for the wrong reasons. It was built for the wrong reasons. It was stopped short for the wrong reasons. And it was added to for the wrong reasons. About the only thing they got right (for the most part) is the theme. And while that’s a lot, it ain’t nearly enough!

And when I hear someone say that they prefer AK over EPCOT or especially the MK, I have to wonder what planet they’re from. I didn’t say that you couldn’t like it at all. But to have it hold a place of significance higher or of greater magnitude or impact than the MK, is totally alien to my way of thinking. The same way that saying IOA is better. I’m sorry, I just don’t understand it at all.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"or whatever convient "you're a bad person, I don't have to listen to you excuse" excuse you can come up with."***

Come on, that a little over the top. Talk about not playing nice.

I will halfway agree with the rest of your post though. I've never met anyone on this board to sit down and have a real discussion with so the only thing I have to base my opinions on individual posters is what I read. We all sorta know what to expect from each other and rarely are we wrong. Baron stated he posted a glowing report of Disney- well I missed it. But I've seen plenty of his posts to the contrary. When you don't feel you're having an open minded discussion with someone, you tend to get a little cynical. Raider is securely seatbelted into Car 3, but his post leave room to negotiate, see another Car's point of view. I don't see that with Baron. ( Note: I'm using Matt and Baron's names as examples, not singling them out as the only cases). Some posters will never accept a logical answer for something that has taken place or will even wait for the facts to be published. They'll simply start with a "look what Disney did now" type of statement. I'm sorry, but I find that annoying.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Wow........AV playing the part of the nice police and not matching an Ei$ner hatred slam with a creative new snowglobe obloquy. What is this world coming to............................or perhaps we are just making progress. That would be kEWl . Thanks for that AV.

Now Mr. Baron (hey - how you been?)....................

‘Nuff said!

You are more than welcome to this piece of literary genius , but allow me to give you a lesson in usage......................It should NEVER be followed by "I WAS going to stop there". Kinda defeats the purpose, don't you think . 'Nuff said.

In a shallow attempt to stay on topic, I saw it referenced that this new 10 am opening would apply not only to Adventureland, but Toontown as well. While I know that it doesn't matter that the 10 am Adventureland might not affect most people and I agree that Disney shouldn't do it for any reason under any circumstance.................not too many people seemed to have noticed the Toontown 10 am opening that has been in place for quite some time now . I know, I know...........chip, chip, chip and slippery slopes and all - of which I agree with. I'll just have to make the most of what is left when I get there after Thanksgiving .

 

[raidermatt]

AK: Why do you find it hard to believe AK could be someones favorite park ? Even with or without Dinorama.

Of course it will be the favorite park of some. With 10's of millions of theme/amusement park attendees in the country, every park is going to have some who call it their favorite.

But what Baron is really asking is not what YOU personally like. Instead, take a step back and look at the big picture... Which parks were built closer to the classic Disney philosophy, MK/Epcot, or MGM/AK? Which parks are responsible for more folks coming to WDW? Epcot has received precious few updates since it was built, and is panned as "boring", yet as of last year, it was STILL outdrawing MGM and AK.

This does not mean MGM/AK are "bad" parks. Its just that they were built under radically different philosophies, and with radically different goals in mind. That doesn't mean every single thing in both parks is "bad".

The point is, that change in philosophy is bad for Disney. Whether that makes them better or worse than the Universals and Six Flags is not the point. Disney is competing with many other destinations other than other parks.

But really, if it means that much to here someone acknowledge that sometimes Disney still makes good stuff, here's a quote from the Baron, the primary target of your criticism:

They have turned that Disney ‘TOUCH’, that pixie dust laden “MAGIC”, into a commodity. The same as IOA. I see no difference today. Sometime IOA wins (Spiderman) and sometime WDW wins (Splash, ToT). Who cares!! It ain’t “Walt’s” Disney! It’s Disney®. And that’s the difference!!

There, he said it! Somtimes WDW wins.

So can we get beyond the "you never acknowledge anything positive Disney does", and instead focus on the true point?

 

[raidermatt]

...not too many people seemed to have noticed the Toontown 10 am opening that has been in place for quite some time now.

Good point.

Not sure if this was mentioned or not, but for those who don't want to hit Toontown or Adventureland at 9am (like us... we don't even get to the parks until 10:30 or so), we need to remember that the later openings just put more folks in those areas later in the day, when we ARE there...

 

[DisneyKidds]

Now Mr. Raider (how-are-they-gonna-win-a-shouldn't-have-to-comback-game-when-Seabass-is-in-the-slammer-but-they-are-still-better-than-my-sucky-Jets) Matt, don't allow the fact that I should make such a good point cloud the fact that I think that 10 am Toontown opening is wrong. Shouldn't be that way and it very well may have ripple effects. Heck, that Toontown 10 am opening has even affected me personally, but it has still never cast a shadow over a single Disney day we have had. I know, my straw hasn't come as of yet..............but it will take much more than the kind of straws that have been falling to make a day at WDW worse than a day just about anyplace else......for the Kidds clan at least. And right now that is my primary (if not sole) focus. Heck, I could agree with Baron on 100% of his philosophy issues (no - I'm not there yet Baron ) and it wouldn't change that. Even he can confirm that because he still gladly drops as much green on Disney (trademark thingie) as he did on Walt's Disney. Ok, ok, not as much...............but really........how much less?

 

[KNWVIKING]

Toontown,10;00 am opening, just a simple question, neither defending nor condemming: If the front gates open at 9, and toontown is at the back of the park, does it need to be opened right at 9 ?

AK: Matt, what Baron asked me was would I go to IOA/US instead of AK/MGM. Answer is no. I like MGM better the US and I prefer AK to all the parks.

***" But to have it hold a place of significance higher or of greater magnitude or impact than the MK, is totally alien to my way of thinking."***

I'd understand that statement better if I'd qualified my AK preference by saying MK sucked, but I didn't. If AK is a "10" to me, them MK is 9.5 and MGM/Epcot are 9's. To me, WDW is like bacon. Is there really any bad bacon. Is nothing not better with bacon. To me, AK is just Thick Cut Bacon.

 

[DisneyKidds]

If the front gates open at 9, and toontown is at the back of the park, does it need to be opened right at 9 ?

Hate to say it Vike, but this question is a non-starter no matter which side of the issue you are on. I just don't see the relevance. To get to Pirates you hit the hub, turn left, and walk a few minutes thru Adventureland. To get to Toontown you hit the hub, angle right, and walk a few minutes back past the teacups. Thunder and Splash Mountains are probably just as far (if not farther) from the front gates as is Toontown. If it takes you 00:00:52 longer to get to Barnstormer than Pirates I fail to see what difference it makes. Seems to me you are flirting with very dangerous subjective logic.

 

[raidermatt]

If the front gates open at 9, and toontown is at the back of the park, does it need to be opened right at 9?

On early entry days, folks are already in the park. On other days, certainly people could get to Toontown in no more than 10 or 15 minutes. As DK said, Adventureland is even closer.

And DK, WOW! The Jets must really be getting to you.

I didn't mean to imply the TT/AL delayed openings were "the straw" for you, or even a significant straw. Just agreeing with your point, and adding a few comments. Wasn't trying to distract you while painting a "3" on your car. That's Baron's job!

 

[mudhen]

I think another reason Adventureland opening
at 10:00 strikes a nerve with more people is
that with Pirates, Jungle Cruise, Aladdin, Tiki
Birds, Swiss Family Treehouse....there are more
attractions people are likley to head for first
than in Toontown. I doubt many people have
Goofy's Barnstormer at the top of their list.

Having said that, I also think it's bad show to
open any "land" later than the rest of the park
in general.

In terms of guest experience, Disney seems to be
taking the side of...." I hope visitors don't
notice or don't care and we can save a few bucks"

versus......." How can we bend over backwards
to give our guests the best possible show? ".

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by mudhen
Having said that, I also think it's bad show to
open any "land" later than the rest of the park
in general.

In terms of guest experience, Disney seems to be
taking the side of...." I hope visitors don't
notice or don't care and we can save a few bucks"

versus......." How can we bend over backwards
to give our guests the best possible show? ".

Nicely put. Short and sweet.

All of this talk of philosophy has me contemplating the newer parks at both places. Based on the "giving the visitors all that we can give them" idea, I think that I know what I've been floundering around trying to say.

Universal, in my opinion, is playing around with this concept. They're not there yet but I see signs of interest in pursuing this. Disney seems to have lost that focus. I haven't seen Mission Space so I don't know if it falls under the "giving the visitors all that we can give them" philosophy but I see a lack in the newer attractions and resorts in general.

Cutting hours is definitely not within the philosophy. It's another "brick in the wall". (Back to that band again!)

 

[KNWVIKING]

But simply don't know what it's like back there first thing in the morning- non EE days. I know it's not physically far away, but just that there are so many things to see and do before you get to it, how many people actually make a bee-line to get to Toontown ?

Jets ? Raiders ?? Pu Leez !! How 'bout them Vikings.

 

[Another Voice]

"how many people actually make a bee-line to get to Toontown ?"

Ever been there with a six year old who can't wait to see Mickey?

Based on this logic - I propose that 'Mission: Space' not open until 3:00pm. I mean, it's not like anyone really wants to go to Epcot, so people show up late. And the last thing you want to do in the morning is ride a thrill ride ('cause everyone goes to a character breakfast and you know, the mess). So like the morning is totally out. And when it gets near 11:00, that's when people start thinking about lunch and no one wants to get in a long line when you're hungry and there aren't any good restuarants on that side so everyone's going to have to walk a long way and so no one is going to be near the ride at lunchtime anyway so why bothering opening to when there's no one around. And after lunch, well if thought breakfast is bad then no one is really going want to go spinning right after a big old lunch so that means the next couple hours are right out. So I guess that about 3:00pm is the right time to open the ride. But it has to close at six because everyone goes to save their spot for the fireworks.

Gee, you can justify anything as long as you know what everyone else does.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Jets ? Raiders ?? Pu Leez !! How 'bout them Vikings.

Sorry, we don't like to talk about teams that are playing good football and exceeding their expectations . I was surprised Frerotte performed as well as he did this weekend, and Moss not being hampered by the bad back made a huge difference. I only picked against them yesterday because I figured Dante would be out and Moss would be limited. Dante was out, but I still lost that gamble. With Atlanta next weekend they should be 5-0. Denver will be a test after the bye.

(there, feel better?)