Abortion thread

[chobie]

Forgive me if someone already said this as I do not have the time to read all the replies with 3 little ones keeping me occupied. I am pro-life and believe life begins at conception, if it's not a human being, what is "it"??? I agree a very young fetus can not survive outside the womb without me but neither can my almost 7 month old who is sitting on my lap right now. That being said, I could not justify ending a life just because it is inconvenient to mine at the time. Not meant to offend anyone, just MHO.

Actually your 7 month old can survive without YOU. Anyone can take care of the baby. Now a 12 week embryo can only survive in the uterus it was implanted in. That is the difference.

 

[momo3hods]

Okay, point taken but my 7 month old could not survive on her own, without someone to help her, I guess I should have been more specific.

 

[DemonLlama]

I always just sorta thought that was up to me to decide.

It is up to you -- it affects no one else. Abortion does affect someone else, at least those who see the unborn as a baby. There is a crucial difference.

I guess the fear of the slippery slope works both ways, only my fears have already gone down it with 41,000,000 abortions and counting.

 

[ncgolfer]

From my experience I know many women who profess to having abortions and not one of them was for medical reasons. The two individuals didn't use any protection and the woman got pregnant. Roe vs. Wade is being manipulated in this county so that abortion is a oops too late form of birth control. I'm 100% pro-life in any situation. Its not up to me or anyone else to decide when an innocent life should cease (IMO). I don't think RvW will ever be overturned but it needs to at the least be amended so that abortion its not used as a form of birth control.

 

[auntpolly]

it needs to at the least be amended so that abortion its not used as a form of birth control.

Do you think that could ever really be the case? Realistically speaking, if we start making value judgements about who "deserves" an abortion, it will be rich people who get them whenever they want and poor people who have to grovel for them. It's either legal or it's not, IMO.

 

[chobie]

It is up to you -- it affects no one else. Abortion does affect someone else, at least those who see the unborn as a baby. There is a crucial difference.

I guess the fear of the slippery slope works both ways, only my fears have already gone down it with 41,000,000 abortions and counting.

I'm not sure this is enough justification for making abortion illegal.. It's an emotional plea, certainly, but not a logical or compelling reason to override the rights of women.

__________________

 

[Rowena]

I am so proud to be a part of an online community that can discuss such a hot button issue so rationally.
In a perfect world, abortions would be at best, rare.
In the world we live in, I am pro-choice. This doesn't mean I think every woman should go out and have an abortion. It means I think every woman should have the right to know ALL of her options, BC, adoption, and abortion. I agree with the deadline of 12 weeks as a cutoff point for elective abortion, except in cases of medical necessity, but I suppose those would fall under a different category anyway. I agree with auntpolly that we are edging toward a slippery slope in that we could find our options being chipped away.
http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/tgr/06/2/gr060203.pdf
It's a pdf file and it shows the mortality rates of women who've had abortions in many countries, some legal, some not. I would hate to have anyone's daughter, mother, sister or friend go back to a time when a desperate action led to her death.
Anyone who's pro-life, I respect your point of view. I may not agree with it, but I respect it.

 

[Bichon Barb]

Do you think that could ever really be the case? Realistically speaking, if we start making value judgements about who "deserves" an abortion, it will be rich people who get them whenever they want and poor people who have to grovel for them. It's either legal or it's not, IMO.

That is my point exactly! One would have to prove themselves "worthy" of an abortion. (Kind of reminds me of the sponge worthy Seinfeld episode LOL.) Could you imagine the number of women claiming that they or their daughters had been raped in order to get an abortion!!!!????

Personally, I'm pro choice for first trimester abortions unless there is a medical risk to the mother or the fetus will not survive when born.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just a thought, but maybe they need to bring back the debate board!

We've actually been conversing quite nicely.

I don't know why it is necessary to mention this here (or on most any other hot topic thread) when the CB is open to any topic as long as we are nice about it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There is a current push by some groups to teach abstinence ONLY in schools. The four school districts that I have worked with did, in fact, teach abstinence along with presenting information about birth control methods (this was in high schools). Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the official stance from the Catholic Church one that discourages any form of birth control, aside from natural family planning? My Catholic friends, though devout on many levels, do use birth control.

Yes you are correct. And in theory--the friends are technically sinning--but then you get into the whole area about how bad the sin really is (sorry--10 years catholic--and still get confused on the terms--but they have terms).

The reasoning is the following (rough around the edges, my apologies for that):

1. No sex outside of the constrains of marriage
2. Sex is to consummate the marriage and procreate
3. The church isn't saying you have to have 10 children. They understand that Catholics do have lives--and that finances or circumstances make it okay to have some say in the # of offspring.
4. So why no BCP if they don't have a problem? Well--and this is said so more eloquently in the NFP literature: B/c when you are together--you should accept all of one person and that includes everything that results in the act. The Catholic church recognizes all parts to be a potential life even if it is only half the DNA--so if you can engage in sex without getting pregnant--this is okay as long as you aren't spilling the goods or otherwise preventing a pregnancy while engaging in the act.
5. For the times that the chance of getting pregnant is high--and you don't wish to get pregnant then you abstain. And the Catholic Church is okay on this.

edited for usage of a homonym--now corrected.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Do you think that could ever really be the case? Realistically speaking, if we start making value judgements about who "deserves" an abortion, it will be rich people who get them whenever they want and poor people who have to grovel for them. It's either legal or it's not, IMO.

If they further define it as someone suggested earlier--1st trimester, 2nd trimester, third trimester.

If you can't have the baby for whatever "non-medical" reason...then when your period is late and the test is positive--get it done per the laws then.

I think it would be great to for a legal definition of "point of no return" in terms of gestation. Un ultrasound can make a very accurate depiction to the Estimated in utero age of baby. So there really isn't a whole lot of wiggle room.

 

[Immelman]

I think it would be great to for a legal definition of "point of no return" in terms of gestation.

it's a thought, but I don't think it'll ever come to that. the 41,000,000 number caught me by surprise. obviously, it's more widely accepted than I thought. I felt like white trash when my girlfriend had hers. but I'm glad the option was available. neither one of us gave it a second thought. in our situation, it was just a fact we were going to do it. it would have ruined 3 lives. I never would have met my wife or have our daughter.

 

[chobie]

it's a thought, but I don't think it'll ever come to that. the 41,000,000 number caught me by surprise. obviously, it's more widely accepted than I thought. I felt like white trash when my girlfriend had hers. but I'm glad the option was available. neither one of us gave it a second thought. in our situation, it was just a fact we were going to do it. it would have ruined 3 lives. I never would have met my wife or have our daughter.

That number is since abortion became legal. We have no idea what the number was when women had illegal aboritons.

 

[Bichon Barb]

Immelman, your honesty is refreshing. I know a few women who have had abortions--all of them were young when it happened and were due to mistakes. I'm sure they all deeply regret getting pregnant, but I don't know any that regret the choice they made. They all went on to get married and have families later on. They are all good people from good families. (I probably know so many, because people feel comfortable confiding in me. I've been vocally pro choice since I was teen. My mom has also always been pro choice.)

In the two years+ that I've been getting involved in these debates on the DIS, I've been tempted to start a poll to see how many people on the DIS have actually had abortions or have had fathered pregnancies that have resulted in abortions. The results might be surprising. But I don't know how such a poll would be received.

 

[krystyana]

Just thought i'd give some more food for thought.....As far as having abortions for when the child has defects....a good number of these pregnancies would have self terminated in the days before our health advances in prenatal care. I guess my point is why is it okay to interfere with "God's Will" in some circumstances and not others? I'm not a fanatic...I don't agree with late term abortions....or even abortions after the first trimester unless medically necessary. That is only my opinion and I don't have the right to make that decision for anyone else, nor would i want anyone else dictating how i choose to live. The reality is however women will continue to have abortions, legal or otherwise. I would prefer to see them take place in a clean controlled environment then revert back to back alley clinics. The more we learn and the more we advance we will continue to have to make educated decisions about controversial subjects.

 

[Maleficent13]

Just thought i'd give some more food for thought.....As far as having abortions for when the child has defects....a good number of these pregnancies would have self terminated in the days before our health advances in prenatal care. I guess my point is why is it okay to interfere with "God's Will" in some circumstances and not others?

I think this is a very good question as well. I am interested to hear any answers.

 

[MrsKreamer]

I personally know quite a few people who have had abortions and they have no regrets. They don't go around crying and carrying around ultrasound photos, and I wouldn't either if I had aborted. That would be stupid.

She meant later in life we they get pregnant and keep the baby.
She had a good point....to some it's a baby to others it's just a glob of cells. Even different pregnacies to the same person can be different.

 

[MrsKreamer]

I also agree with many of the other posts here. I don't agree with abortion, but I don't want it to be illegal either. I think it is too late to turn back now. I think more education is a great idea. The problem is you tend to forget all of that knowledge when things get going. I went to a Catholic high school, but they taught all forms of birth control. I still got pregnant by accident! I know when I would ovulate, and that if we didn't use any protection I would get pregnant. Whoops! lol Good thing we were in the position to get married and just start our family early.

I agree with someone who said it is usually our view on when life starts that separates us. I believe that life starts at conception, but it isn't a religious thing for me. I think it is b/c I felt life inside of me when I was pregnant, even before I felt him move. Like I siad I don't agree with abortions, but I don't want to stop someone who thinks that they have to get one.

Tell me what yall think about this: Do you think we will get medically advanced enough to do fetus transplants? Think about it. We wouldn't have to kill the fetus just put it inside someone who wants it....just a thought

 

[chobie]

Just thought i'd give some more food for thought.....As far as having abortions for when the child has defects....a good number of these pregnancies would have self terminated in the days before our health advances in prenatal care. I guess my point is why is it okay to interfere with "God's Will" in some circumstances and not others? I'm not a fanatic...I don't agree with late term abortions....or even abortions after the first trimester unless medically necessary. That is only my opinion and I don't have the right to make that decision for anyone else, nor would i want anyone else dictating how i choose to live. The reality is however women will continue to have abortions, legal or otherwise. I would prefer to see them take place in a clean controlled environment then revert back to back alley clinics. The more we learn and the more we advance we will continue to have to make educated decisions about controversial subjects.

Good questions. I also wonder in the case of using fertility treatments, IVF, donor eggs etc, is this God's will too? How about when a scientist in a lab injects a sperm into an egg, has the scientist then "created life"?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just thought i'd give some more food for thought.....As far as having abortions for when the child has defects....a good number of these pregnancies would have self terminated in the days before our health advances in prenatal care. I guess my point is why is it okay to interfere with "God's Will" in some circumstances and not others?

In all fields--not just prenatal/neonatal..medicine has advanced to allow things to happen that would have once been fatal.

In theory--getting medical care at any stage in life is interfering with God's Will as we didn't always have that possibility.