Abigail Disney vs Bob Iger

[ChrisFL]

2. I am in no way minimizing the work that CM's do, but do you honestly believe that CM's work as hard as Iger?

I'm frequently annoyed by this kind of question, when it comes to any "low end" worker vs a CEO. They're completely different kinds of "work". One of it is a lot of mental tasks and those CEO's usually have a lot of assistants to actually help them out. I'm sure both deal with lots of stress. I know College Program CM's who worked 13 hour shifts at WDW, 6 days a week, were packed into dorms with 5 other random people and lived that way for a year. I'm sure that was a lot of work.

 

[Dancind]

Mea culpa, I assumed Disney was like so many other big corporations and didn't have to pay taxes last year. Guess they made way too much money.

Do you think Iger works $31,500 per hour harder than the $11 per hour park employees?

 

[china mom]

2. I am in no way minimizing the work that CM's do, but do you honestly believe that CM's work as hard as Iger?

Agreed. and it is not just about working harder. The ditch digger will always sweat more and use more muscle power than the professional. We are paying the professional, not for the labor but the knowledge, decision making ability and the accountability.

If the low lever CM makes a mistake, what are the consequences for the employee or even the company. Someone gets chips instead of fries? The CEO makes a mistake and a billion dollar deal gets tanked. We are compensating them for keeping all the balls in the air and not making mistakes not for how hard they toil.

Doctors will always make more money that the cleaning crew at the hospital despite the cleaning guy working ten times harder. Should the doctor be compensated less just because the cleaning guy can't pay his bills?

 

[Dancind]

I will agree, completely, that the doctor should make more money than the janitor. But if the janitor gets sick and doesn't have health insurance, or can't afford child care, or has to choose between rent/food and transportation to work, you might notice the lack of a janitor at the hospital. I'm sure they would just hire another one until that one disappears too.

During the shut down, there were many TSA employees in this situation. Perfect example of people who don't make enough money to save any. Look how that turned out for people trying to fly.

 

[ember1205]

Companies should have a larger responsibility than making money for investors.

Really? Like what?

Companies / corporations are FOR-PROFIT. So, who should they make the money for?

Investors are like Banks lending money. They aren't your buddies floating you $20 until you get paid, they loan you the money TO MAKE MONEY.

Without investors, companies don't exist. Period.

 

[Dancind]

Ember, have you heard of the concept "Corporate citizen"? It means that corporations are citizens of society, just like you and me. As such, they have a responsibility to contribute to a higher quality of life for their employees, neighbors, community, while still making a profit. I guess it's an old fashioned term these days.

 

[ember1205]

Being a responsible corporate citizen does not mean that they ignore profitability, though. Every company must first make money. If they don't, they cease to exist and there is no opportunity to be a responsible corporate citizen.

Additionally, bring a responsible corporate citizen is about having a positive impact on society, the environment, communities, etc. It is NOT directly related to redistributing the bonuses of the executives to the general workforce merely because they executives "don't need the money."

One thing I haven't seen anyone comment on is how much of the money ends up bring donated by Iger through philanthropic endeavors.

 

[mummabear]

As I said in my first post here, I am not offended if someone corrects my math. I read the number as 200,000 but have since been corrected as 10% of 200,00. This moves my decimal point and now we are talking $1500 rather than the 150 I calculated.

$1500 can be a lot of money when you are making ends meet eating Ramen noodles with egg every day like I once did.

But, I still am on team Iger. If his contract says that he should get bonuses when certain benchmarks are met, that is the contract. He did his job and got the bonuses he is due per his contract.

Disney has the option of negotiating a different contract with the next CEO but if they want the best, they will have to make it a pretty offer.
Bob Iger doesn't make the top 15 list of highest paid CEOs according to: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/12/21/highest-paid-ceos-2018/38756663/

He comes in at #18

My problem isn't really with what they are paying Iger, they can more than afford both and making be making a healthy profit. But at the end of the day, I dont think he is doing a great job if they cant afford to pay their staff a living wage.

If you do not have to work for something, how much do you value it? I mean when I go to Disney there are what I consider great CM's and lousy CM's. We encounter both. Is anyone suggesting that a small incremental hourly raise to the not so nice CM's will make them better or more friendly? I know that is seemingly absurd example, but is it really? I mean isn't that what everyone is really talking about? Raising minimum wages to a "living" wage has always been a battle cry, but if it is and folks can live on it then will they be incented to strive for more?

They are working for it, that's the point.
Will it make CMs better and more friendly, likely for 2 reasons 1) higher quality applicants are more likely (you know the whole pay peanuts get monkeys)
2) it's a lot easier to be happier and more enthusiastic at work when you feel valued, and when you arent worried about the basics like how you are going to keep.your power on.

You have to have goals, you have to have drive and you need to have to pay at least some price to succeed. That is what America was built on. We as a society are living better lives than anyone before us in the history of the world. We seldom stop to consider that very often because we are always looking for more. And more is better bt at least there needs to be an appreciation for what it takes to get there as opposed to just wanting to give to all for nothing in return.

Yup, the problem is with people wanting to afford the very basics of life, not with the guy that can afford a super yacht.
They dont want something for nothing, the want minimum wage to mean that someone working fulltime can afford a roof over their head, three basic meals etc in exchange for working.

If the low lever CM makes a mistake, what are the consequences for the employee or even the company. Someone gets chips instead of fries?

I dont know...I mean they are in charge of safety at the front end and I can think of 2 mistakes made by staff at Dreamworld Australia and Sic Flags whose mistakes at least contributed to peoples deaths.

Ember, have you heard of the concept "Corporate citizen"? It means that corporations are citizens of society, just like you and me. As such, they have a responsibility to contribute to a higher quality of life for their employees, neighbors, community, while still making a profit. I guess it's an old fashioned term these days.

One thing I haven't seen anyone comment on is how much of the money ends up bring donated by Iger through philanthropic endeavors.

I'm sure all the minimum wage employees under his charge really care that he is donating his money rather than paying them enough to eat everyday....

On that note maybe instead of Disney donating $5M to Notre Dame they could have spent that money paying their staff....

 

[ember1205]

Philanthropy and responsible corporate citizenship are ways to benefit those that do NOT work for the company. If you redirect that money to only the employees, you are now taking away the ability to help others outside of the corporation.

There are a LOT of variables in play here and the majority of those that are taking issue with any CEO"s specific compensation are unable or unwilling to consider all of the facts before using judgement. I agree that the amount if money given to these people seems ludicrous, and I also detest that they are compensated for success AND failure. But I also know that I am not aware of all of the facts and do not have a completely thought out plan for how to do it "better". Every method out there had flaws and leaves some group or individual with less than someone else.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Really? Like what?

Protecting consumers. Protecting the environment. Paying their employees fairly. Basically, being a responsible member of society.

 

[AggieDizzer]

I was going to start a thread about this myself! In my humble opinion, Bob Iger is worth EVERY PENNY they pay him. The Disney brand has never been stronger or more popular than it is now - I will concede that it isn't perfect, but think about how far they have come during his tenure while comparable entertainment/media brands (Sony, Comcast/Universal, Paramount, etc) have not achieved anywhere NEAR the success that Disney has. And this is evidenced by pretty much any metric you want to look at - stock price, income, revenue, profitability, park attendance, movie revenues, cruise lines, you name it. We're not talking about a failed CEO who has wrecked a company and is walking away with a bajillion dollar golden parachute. Yes, I believe cast members could be and should be paid more, but since we seem to be referring to cast members working at the resorts when this subject is brought up, couldn't you say the same about blue collar jobs at other hospitality brands like Hilton, Omni, or the like? (I actually don't know the answer to this question but I would be willing to bet the compensation is comparable.) I think Disney's recent difficulties in finding a capable successor to Iger only further illustrates his immense value to the company, and shows that not just anyone - even a quality CEO from another media/entertainment/hospitality company - could step in and do what he has done and continues to do for Disney.

I worry that there may come a day post-Iger when we'll be longing for the days when Disney's brand is as strong as it is now and complaining that they don't have a forward-thinking CEO with the chops to make the big deals and keep our beloved Disney at the top of the mountain. Guys like him don't grow on trees. That's why you pay them.

My 2 cents! +Pax

 

[tex1989]

I guess a lot of what I am reading is someone else makes to much money and I don't agree with how the money the corporations make is donated because it should go to the employees rather than going to the causes it is going to. Like instead of $5 million to rebuild Notre Dame give it to the workers. Instead of giving to the arts, give it to the workers. So at the end of the day what we are really saying is maybe corporations are donating to much to too many things and should just pay their workers. Sure they can do that but then comes the reality that it seems that there are plenty of workers willing to step up and accept what Disney pays. If there was a tremendous shortage of workers then they would have to pay more. That is the way the system works. A minimum wage job was never intended to be one that you keep for life. It is a stepping stone. Some one mentioned the College Program and yes they work hard long hours and live in cramped conditions but it is only for a limited amount of time. Theoretically it is to gain valuble experience so you can return to school finish your degree and graduate and be more hireable because of that experience.

Corporations do what they do because they are incented to via tax laws, regulations and rules. Change the rules and you change their behavior. My whole point of the earlier post was to say that you should aspire to gain knowledge and experience through hard work to achieve goals. At the end of the day we all make decsions in our lives that lead us to where we are. We decide to go to college or not, we choose to go to trade school or not, we decide what to major in and how employable that profession is and what the earning potential is. These choices bring us to where we are in life. I could have chosen to get a degree in History because from a young age I have loved history, but as I enterd univrsity I knew that as a history major my potential earnings would be limited as well as my opportunities regardless of how good I was at it. So I chose a Finance degree. I lived in Houston the energy capital of America and went into that field. Now grant you I have not loved getting out of bed every day of my career and been excited about going to work. I have dreamed of quiting it all and going to live in the country and raise cows. But I didn't. The world we live in today is teaching people that you should be able to do what ever you want and get paid a living wage to do it. Well unfortunatly that's not the way it works. Students today graduate with degrees in religious studies or philosophy and want to know where they will get the job for $100k a year. Life is hard if, and big if you want to keep up with the Jones' and have all the wonderful things in life and go to WDW twice a year. It takes money and the only way you get that money is to make the right choices. I understand that folks who work low paying jobs struggle, I have been there. But at the end of the day those folks in America still have a better standard of life than 90% of the people on the planet. Can we do better, yes sure we can, but the fact is we tend to ignore how well we are doing most of the time.

 

[Dancind]

I disagree that Corporate Citizenship does not include the employees. If that's the case, what's with all the fuss about the number of jobs being created? A fair living wage allows the employees to live in, and spend money, in the local community. That helps the local economy and THAT is what all the fuss is about.

Donating money to charity is nice, and I'm sure it makes the donor feel better. But if you have scads and oodles of money and need to feel better about it, perhaps you are making too much. Or need to pay a fair share of taxes, at least. That was another point Abigail made during the whole tax cut debate, she felt rich people should pay a fair share.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Stephen Mansfield wrote this book called The Search for God and Guinness, that, among other things, talks about the Guinness company's view of corporate citizenship, including how both the company and the Guinness family helped its community -- both its own workers as well as the poorer neighborhoods of Dublin.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SKZBHC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

 

[smiths02]

https://movieweb.com/avengers-endgame-robert-downey-jr-payday-earnings/

My husband was reading about this. Just made me think that it isn't only CEOs earning a very large amount of the profits.

 

[NYDisGuy]

Corporations do what they do because they are incented to via tax laws, regulations and rules. Change the rules and you change their behavior. My whole point of the earlier post was to say that you should aspire to gain knowledge and experience through hard work to achieve goals. At the end of the day we all make decsions in our lives that lead us to where we are. We decide to go to college or not, we choose to go to trade school or not, we decide what to major in and how employable that profession is and what the earning potential is. These choices bring us to where we are in life. I could have chosen to get a degree in History because from a young age I have loved history, but as I enterd univrsity I knew that as a history major my potential earnings would be limited as well as my opportunities regardless of how good I was at it. So I chose a Finance degree. I lived in Houston the energy capital of America and went into that field. Now grant you I have not loved getting out of bed every day of my career and been excited about going to work. I have dreamed of quiting it all and going to live in the country and raise cows. But I didn't. The world we live in today is teaching people that you should be able to do what ever you want and get paid a living wage to do it. Well unfortunatly that's not the way it works. Students today graduate with degrees in religious studies or philosophy and want to know where they will get the job for $100k a year. Life is hard if, and big if you want to keep up with the Jones' and have all the wonderful things in life and go to WDW twice a year. It takes money and the only way you get that money is to make the right choices. I understand that folks who work low paying jobs struggle, I have been there. But at the end of the day those folks in America still have a better standard of life than 90% of the people on the planet. Can we do better, yes sure we can, but the fact is we tend to ignore how well we are doing most of the time.

Not everyone is in the same situation as you, this isn't the case of "well I did it so everyone else should". Some people have sick families that they need to support, some people have single parents and need to focus on keeping a roof over their head, some people have children early in life because they weren't properly educated on contraception, some people have families who stole from them and have to start from rock bottom, some people are in disadvantaged locations and don't have the means to escape etc.

Also, not everyone is just lazy like you are describing, people have to work sometimes 3 jobs to survive. Disney is not just plucking people after 6 months of employment into a management role. We have seen reports of great CM's working years in the same role, getting 5% raises on their $10 an hour while Disney was thriving and getting nothing when times were bad. Yet when those same times were bad, those executives were still giving each other tens of millions in stock and severance.

 

[tex1989]

Not everyone is in the same situation as you, this isn't the case of "well I did it so everyone else should". Some people have sick families that they need to support, some people have single parents and need to focus on keeping a roof over their head, some people have children early in life because they weren't properly educated on contraception, some people have families who stole from them and have to start from rock bottom, some people are in disadvantaged locations and don't have the means to escape etc.

Also, not everyone is just lazy like you are describing, people have to work sometimes 3 jobs to survive. Disney is not just plucking people after 6 months of employment into a management role. We have seen reports of great CM's working years in the same role, getting 5% raises on their $10 an hour while Disney was thriving and getting nothing when times were bad. Yet when those same times were bad, those executives were still giving each other tens of millions in stock and severance.

My message is not, I did it so everyone else can. That was not my intent at all. More so the message is we make choices when faced with all the situations you present. Sometimes there are circumstances we cannot control. The message is more about choice overall. I mean many times I have thought wouldn't it be great to move to Florida and get a job at WDW? Even more so now that I am getting close to retirement could I go there and live and work? The reality is no, it would not be the right thing to do for personal and financial reasons. As a finance major you study a lot of economics so I look at things one way. But if a person has not studied economics I can completely understand their reasoning that corporations like Disney should pay their employees more. But here is the reality, Disney and hundreds of other corporations are able to operate because there are enough people willing to work for them at the current pay scale. Fairness, moral compasses, doing the right thing, then becomes a secondary point. As it's most basic level it is a demand/supply explaination, but at other levels it gets more complicated. I understand that regardless of my feelings on the subject the fact that I go and spend what Disney charges several times a year to enjoy the experience I am supporting the current system. If you go or your family goes then you to are supporting the current operating model. It has happened a couple of times in selective situations and not across the board where shortages of workers have prompted increased wages in the Central Florida area. But currently there seems to be enough workers and gosh knows there is plenty of attendence from the paying public to support the model.

Now I am not saying boycotte Disney, I have no intention of doing it, but I can assure you that as long as people show up in the numbers they do and they can hire enough people to run the system then it will continue as is unabated.
That's just simple economics.

 

[AurumPunzel]

Protecting consumers. Protecting the environment. Paying their employees fairly. Basically, being a responsible member of society.

The trouble is that when corporations do that, they often come across as 'feel good' vanity exercises, and the environmental aspect of it has especially been highlighted a lot in recent months, particularly as the issue of plastics has sparked numerous debates about conservation vs convenience, and how corporate moves are more about vanity, the bottom line, and not the environment. Having said that, as much as corporate citizenship is good, the problem is that, in a ravenous world of capitalism, it's always going to be about the Benjamins.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Having said that, as much as corporate citizenship is good, the problem is that, in a ravenous world of capitalism, it's always going to be about the Benjamins.

Well, when late stage capitalism finally finishes rotting away our civilization, at least I'll be able to say "I told you so".

 

[tex1989]

Well, when late stage capitalism finally finishes rotting away our civilization, at least I'll be able to say "I told you so".

But is it really purely capitalism? In other countries, say China, do their citizens not crave technology? Do they not want I-Phones, new movies, and many of the other things that societies both capitalist and non capitalist countries have. Everyone wants more, for the poorest in the world it's more food and medicine, and as you move up the socio economic scale it becomes electronics, clothes, gadgets, etc. So the question becomes it is the desire to make money or merely feeding the wants (not needs) of society. That is why the debate continues to rage. Would many advancements we enjoy as a society exist without any form of capitalism? I mean I have not seen a lot of government entities make our lives better through innovation. Much of what there is out there is because some one saw profitability through innovation and that lead to development. How many Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates would there be in the world if there was not personal gains to be had for their efforts. It is a difficult question that will not be answered any time soon.