Aaaaaand it sucked

[Mikie]

It all hinges on what impact FP+ has on EMH and the very first hour of rope drop. If we're not able to do our favorites (maximum 2) at least once and our very favorite twice, WITHOUT fastpasses, and a maximum wait of about 30 minutes, it's not going to be as good.

If we can do the above while still have 3 secured rides in the PM park, it will be amazing.

We shall see!

I don't know when you're gong, and haven't gone at super-busy 9/10 crowd level days, but otherwise, I really can't imagine you not being able to accomplish your plan. . . Unless your favorites are A&E and 7dwarfs AND yo want multiple trips thru those.

 

[Luckybee]

So strange to hear "3 times as long". We went in 2012 (FP-), and I remember waiting about 40 min for the HM standby. In 2014, we went on the HM many times, never used one of our pre-pick FP+s for it, and it either had a short line when we walked up, or, we were able to get it at a kiosk.

This was in May, during Star Wars Weekends, so a moderately busy time.

I don't think I'm using FP+ differently than anyone. I used the first 3, then went to kiosks which had 5-minute waits and a pretty good selection of options well into the day at the MK.

3 times as long is just crazy. So if the average non-mountain was 20 min before, you're saying they're all an hour now? That's just not been my experience.

I checked last night to see if my recollection was correct or if I was "wearing rose colored glasses". I looked on Touring Plans only for the same date at MK in 2012 that we had trouble with in 2014 at the end of Sept. I adjusted for day of the week as well so that I'd compare apples with oranges. For the rides that we found the SB lines to be extremely long this time ie potc I compared wait times and found the difference to be 2x to 3x as long for the wait times.
Imho I don't believe increased attendance accounts for this esp when the days I looked at were the same ie both 5's or within 1 of each other.

That said as I indicated on another thread the fp lines were surprising short or non existent. It is my belief ( and before anyone says I have no proof, I absolutely do not which is why Im saying "belief" ) that Disney is "tink"ering with fp+ and the numbers that they are releasing on a daily basis. I for one don't believe that we see such dramatic fluctuations in reported experiences because people are "lying" or exaggerating in either direction. I think it may be because the experience is varying on a daily basis. There have been just way too many reports of , long lines/no lines, plenty of fp's for 4th 5th etc./none avail etc etc. Then we see block releases of fp's for A&E, TSMM, 7DMT. None of this makes sense unless D is doing what Im suggesting they are.

I believe this is happening because they are still trying to optimize the program, and because they will eventually sell fp's in some manner and they are trying to determine the best way to do it.

As I said this is only my belief. Im not married to the idea but from a practical position I cant imagine why else this would be happening.

As an aside, on one of our days we were at MK we tried to change a fp we had for BTMR to something else because the fp line was crazy(the only one we saw long), since the ride had problems earlier. For that hour and the next only 2 rides in the entire park came up. This is part of my point. Your experience was so vastly different from ours that there has to be some explanation. I've spoken with people who were there in the summer, and their experience was worse than ours, yet others who were there a week after us and they had no lines. These are people I know...and I know them well enough to know they are telling it as they saw it. This is why I firmly believe we're guinea pigs in the Disney programming, and why tyvm we'll wait for a bit before we do another Disney focused trip.

 

[bumbershoot]

I miss having the clean slate every morning. No matter what happened the day before (weather, bad night's sleep, illness, whatever), you could regroup for the next day.

Great point. Of course, that started sliding away from us when they put in the cancellation fees for ADRs. Kids needed to sleep more? You're so sore from all the walking you just want a resort day? etc? Tough luck, gotta go to the ADR or pay the fees.

Sigh.

Truth is, most people fight change. If it's not introduced properly, it gets even more pushback...regardless of what the change is, the overall benefits of change, or how the change effects everyone.

It's really too bad WDW did it the way they did it, then. They are still changing things. I had troubles with the MDE app half the day one day during our 11/6-11 trip. When I could finally get in, it was a different format. It was a BETTER format. One that should have been in place nearly 2 years ago. It's ridiculous that it has been so piecemeal.

FP- was only used by a small subset of the visitors who knew how to use it well.

Remember under FP-, a few users got on a lot of rides via the FastPass system, and most users did not use it..

I'm not sure how we could possibly think that only super-users used FP. IF that was true, where were all the people in the FP lines coming from? Why would FPs be out for the day if it was only a small subset using them?

 

[RobynPrincess]

For what we pay to stay onsite in a villa, tickets dining etc I can cut back to every other year and hit EuroDisney. I hear no one goes there, lol!

There's a reason for that though hahahaha

 

[disnut8]

I fully agree with the OP. FP+ is a terrible idea as it is only an advantage for super planners, it is a major disadvantage for everyone else including casual park goers and loyal AP holders. The days of going to the park of your choice and EARNING your FP by going to your favorite attraction first and using the kiosks are long gone. It appears that FP is becoming the primary way to efficiently wait for and enjoy an attraction, this defeats the purpose of FP. What will happen on busy days? Will there be zero FP available the moment that a guest enters the park without preplanned FPs? Will casual guests and AP holders that came into the park at opening have to wait in a 200+ minute standby line while other FP+ guests come in late to the park and walk on to attractions?

I disagree with this. I am a planner but not a super planner. We go four or five times a year and are annual passholders. Yes, it is a change to decide which parks to go to on certain days but if you have a fastpass and the attraction is closed for whatever reason, you get something for it as we did last trip when Expedition Everest closed for a mechanical problem. So, if it's raining and the attraction is closed, same deal Annual passholders have park hopping so if a park is ticking us off, we just use the fastpasses and move on. We always end our day at Epcot and I found myself making our first fastpasses for Epcot because we just cruise over there after we are done with our "first" park and enjoy what we can.

I'm don't go to Disney World to cross things off a list of what I've done. I go to Disney World because I'm on vacation and I want/need to relax.

 

[prudence64]

Stand by lines were longer on our trip, but I don't attribute it to FP. The crowds were much larger than I'm used to. More people on buses, in parking lots, buying food, in walkways, etc...

 

[emldrl]

I checked last night to see if my recollection was correct or if I was "wearing rose colored glasses". I looked on Touring Plans only for the same date at MK in 2012 that we had trouble with in 2014 at the end of Sept. I adjusted for day of the week as well so that I'd compare apples with oranges. For the rides that we found the SB lines to be extremely long this time ie potc I compared wait times and found the difference to be 2x to 3x as long for the wait times.
Imho I don't believe increased attendance accounts for this esp when the days I looked at were the same ie both 5's or within 1 of each other.

That said as I indicated on another thread the fp lines were surprising short or non existent. It is my belief ( and before anyone says I have no proof, I absolutely do not which is why Im saying "belief" ) that Disney is "tink"ering with fp+ and the numbers that they are releasing on a daily basis. I for one don't believe that we see such dramatic fluctuations in reported experiences because people are "lying" or exaggerating in either direction. I think it may be because the experience is varying on a daily basis. There have been just way too many reports of , long lines/no lines, plenty of fp's for 4th 5th etc./none avail etc etc. Then we see block releases of fp's for A&E, TSMM, 7DMT. None of this makes sense unless D is doing what Im suggesting they are.

I believe this is happening because they are still trying to optimize the program, and because they will eventually sell fp's in some manner and they are trying to determine the best way to do it.

As I said this is only my belief. Im not married to the idea but from a practical position I cant imagine why else this would be happening.

As an aside, on one of our days we were at MK we tried to change a fp we had for BTMR to something else because the fp line was crazy(the only one we saw long), since the ride had problems earlier. For that hour and the next only 2 rides in the entire park came up. This is part of my point. Your experience was so vastly different from ours that there has to be some explanation. I've spoken with people who were there in the summer, and their experience was worse than ours, yet others who were there a week after us and they had no lines. These are people I know...and I know them well enough to know they are telling it as they saw it. This is why I firmly believe we're guinea pigs in the Disney programming, and why tyvm we'll wait for a bit before we do another Disney focused trip.

I don't quote you to harass or argue with you, and I completely believe you are telling the truth. I am enjoying this discussion, and you are bringing up good points, and I do agree with you for the most part. I did just read, though, that crowd calendars are 'adjusted', if you will, to account for increased attendance. In other words, a 5 in 2014 isn't the same as a 5 in 2012. They are both a 5 of 10, just with differing numbers of people.

I agree that Disney is still working the kinks out, and that does suck for guests in the meantime. And I don't get why they don't do as Universal does with the selling fastpass thing. Seems to make sense, at least to me. I would love to split time, but we just can't for now, and I don't think it has to be one or the other. D or U, just have fun!!

 

[Kenny1113]

I think opinions on FP+ are depending upon the way people tour WDW. I'm not just talking planner vs wing it. Do you visit during peak or very busy seasons? Are you some one who visits for long periods of time/hits the parks several times (days) throughout stay. Are you there to hit your favorite rides or just enjoy being in disney. I agree with what someone said about new visitors can't miss what they don't know.
For me FP+ does not work because we typically just do weekend trips and did not buy tickets until we arrived(wanted to remain flexible I case something came up or huge crowd expected). I like the idea that if we are enjoying time at the resort we don't have to rush to the park to make the FP+ time. I'm about making memories with my kids and being spontaneous not rushing. I was old FP pro, yes we usually made it to the park early because we are early risers and I would take everyone's tickets and go get FP while they were getting a treat or something. With the FP+ I felt like we spent a lot of time waiting in a land for our FP+ time to come because we were either done with everything in that area or afraid to get on a ride with a long wait and minis our window or head our of the land and miss it.
Hope this answers the wing it question.

 

[Luckybee]

I don't quote you to harass or argue with you, and I completely believe you are telling the truth. I am enjoying this discussion, and you are bringing up good points, and I do agree with you for the most part. I did just read, though, that crowd calendars are 'adjusted', if you will, to account for increased attendance. In other words, a 5 in 2014 isn't the same as a 5 in 2012. They are both a 5 of 10, just with differing numbers of people.

I agree that Disney is still working the kinks out, and that does suck for guests in the meantime. And I don't get why they don't do as Universal does with the selling fastpass thing. Seems to make sense, at least to me. I would love to split time, but we just can't for now, and I don't think it has to be one or the other. D or U, just have fun!!

You aren't annoying me at all

When we last went the crowds seemed similar at MK to previous trips same time, more crowded at Epcot (but that is because of Food and Wine which we foolishly avoided on previous trips).

Are you sure about how TP does the rating for Disney. I know that is how they do Universal but my understanding of the way they rated Disney was that they rated based on waiting times . I just looked at the tp site and while I saw that for U I didn't see it for D and I know they do both parks differently because U is not as predictable.

 

[emldrl]

You aren't annoying me at all

When we last went the crowds seemed similar at MK to previous trips same time, more crowded at Epcot (but that is because of Food and Wine which we foolishly avoided on previous trips).

Are you sure about how TP does the rating for Disney. I know that is how they do Universal but my understanding of the way they rated Disney was that they rated based on waiting times . I just looked at the tp site and while I saw that for U I didn't see it for D and I know they do both parks differently because U is not as predictable.

No, not sure at all, although it does make sense. I think we were talking about different things. I was talking more about the ones you use when planning, not the ones they do each day. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[wisblue]

I think opinions on FP+ are depending upon the way people tour WDW. I'm not just talking planner vs wing it. Do you visit during peak or very busy seasons? Are you some one who visits for long periods of time/hits the parks several times (days) throughout stay. Are you there to hit your favorite rides or just enjoy being in disney. I agree with what someone said about new visitors can't miss what they don't know.
For me FP+ does not work because we typically just do weekend trips and did not buy tickets until we arrived(wanted to remain flexible I case something came up or huge crowd expected). I like the idea that if we are enjoying time at the resort we don't have to rush to the park to make the FP+ time. I'm about making memories with my kids and being spontaneous not rushing. I was old FP pro, yes we usually made it to the park early because we are early risers and I would take everyone's tickets and go get FP while they were getting a treat or something. With the FP+ I felt like we spent a lot of time waiting in a land for our FP+ time to come because we were either done with everything in that area or afraid to get on a ride with a long wait and minis our window or head our of the land and miss it.
Hope this answers the wing it question.

I completely agree with your comments about how opinions on FP+ are heavily dependent on touring style.

But, I'm curious as to why you would be more concerned about missing a window with FP+ than with a paper FP. At least with FP+ if you think you're going to miss a time or change your mind about what you want to do you have a chance to change to something else.

 

[wisblue]

You aren't annoying me at all

Are you sure about how TP does the rating for Disney. I know that is how they do Universal but my understanding of the way they rated Disney was that they rated based on waiting times . I just looked at the tp site and while I saw that for U I didn't see it for D and I know they do both parks differently because U is not as predictable.

Here is a link to Touring Plans' description of how they evaluate the crowd levels.

http://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/crowd-levels

and another one that describes a change they made about a year ago that changes their approach of having 10% of each number from 1-10 account for each crowd level:

http://blog.touringplans.com/2013/11/07/announcing-disney-world-crowd-calendar-4/

I think it is fair to say that because of the methods they use a crowd level 5 from 2012 does not necessarily mean that they expect the crowd will be the same size (in terms of number of people or wait times) as a crowd level 5 in 2014. They do make adjustments as crowd levels increase.

 

[justakrazymom]

We go in 59 days... we've had 3 other trips since Sept 2011.. 2 with only legacy FP and 1 with BOTH.. all with free dining.. sit down meals. I truly dont expect too many changes for us.. we are locked into what park based on ADRS just like 2 of the 3 other trips ( only had hoppers in 2013).. I planned FP+ for mid afternoon on most days so we can either..sleep in or hit rope drop so we can still multi ride our faves..just like pre +... I guess Jan 19th we will see how that all goes!

 

[Mambo Junkie]

wrong quote

 

[Mambo Junkie]

For me, that's an expectation. If I went in focusing on the beauty of the park, undoubtedly I would see all the chipped paint, spiderwebs, bird poop, and construction walls, LOL.

I love to sit on one of the benches along the pathway that leads from the castle to Liberty Square; I have pictures of a little bunny on the grounds of the castle. The lovely gardens in the various countries, the trails around AK, Not much beautiful about HS, but I do love to sit in the area around the Brown Derby. Tom Sawyers Island waiting until your kid gets about halfway across the floating barrel bridge, then bouncing up and down to rock it. There's lots to do besides ride roller coasters all day long. I like just walking through some of the attractions without any intention to ride.

 

[SuperTink]

I don't know when you're gong, and haven't gone at super-busy 9/10 crowd level days, but otherwise, I really can't imagine you not being able to accomplish your plan. . . Unless your favorites are A&E and 7dwarfs AND yo want multiple trips thru those.

Thanks for the reply.

Going in January.

In MK we want to ride 7D once during EMH and early RD, we don't need to see A&E at all.

We'd like to be able to do Haunted Mansion, Pirates and Space Mountain once during that morning as well.

In Epcot we want to be able to do Soarin twice and TT once during EMH and early RD.

 

[dfb]

This is not a rhetorical question to irritate people. All my recent trips have involved character ADRs, so that is what causes me to be "locked in" places, therefore I've never been a "winger"

Honestly asking: old system - wake up, decide what to do, go to park w/no pre-planned FP (didn't exist) use Rope Drop for low lines and maybe also see what FPs are available and whether you want to get them
New system if you want to wing it - wake up, decide what to do, go to park w/no pre-planned FP (even though they exist) use Rope Drop for low lines and maybe also see what FPs are available and whether you want to get them

I don't see the difference. Either way you have little control of what FPs to get and when they'll be. If it's the feeling of pressure to do it in advance (whether required or not, you may still *feel* the pressure) I do totally understand that.

FP- Wake up go to park rope drop with no preplanning = 100% of FPs available for all rides.

FP+ Wake up go to park rope drop without preplanning = FPs available??? who knows, depending on the day, possibly no headliners!!

I don't know how you can't see the difference!

 

[Kenny1113]

FP- Wake up go to park rope drop with no preplanning = 100% of FPs available for all rides.

FP+ Wake up go to park rope drop without preplanning = FPs available??? who knows, depending on the day, possibly no headliners!!

I don't know how you can't see the difference!

Agreed!!!!

I completely agree with your comments about how opinions on FP+ are heavily dependent on touring style.

But, I'm curious as to why you would be more concerned about missing a window with FP+ than with a paper FP. At least with FP+ if you think you're going to miss a time or change your mind about what you want to do you have a chance to change to something else.

Because with paper FP it was day of and I could gauge what our day was looking like and when I took that paper FP whether coming back in 1hr, 3hrs,5hrs whatever was workable in our schedule that day. With FP+ I am making my return times well in advance from home with no idea what our day/the crowds/the weather looks like. Our expirience changing FP+ return times was less than enjoyable as it took forever to change it on the phone (not my idea of making memories, spending time looking at the phone instead of enjoying time with the family).

 

[wisblue]

Because with paper FP it was day of and I could gauge what our day was looking like and when I took that paper FP whether coming back in 1hr, 3hrs,5hrs whatever was workable in our schedule that day. With FP+ I am making my return times well in advance from home with no idea what our day/the crowds/the weather looks like. Our expirience changing FP+ return times was less than enjoyable as it took forever to change it on the phone (not my idea of making memories, spending time looking at the phone instead of enjoying time with the family).

Oh, I thought you had said you didn't get tickets until you arrived, meaning that you wouldn't be getting FPs in advance.

 

[BJC15]

My experience and why we like FP+. As a family of three we visited this past August. On what was going to be an AK day we decided to make a last minute switch to MK. All the walls had killed the atmosphere at AK for us. So that morning while the wife is showering I hop on the MDE website (not the app) and switch our FPs to Space Mountain at 11:00, Thunder Mountain at 1:00, and Splash Mountain at 2:00. We arrive at rope drop and get a bunch of attractions done while the masses scramble for the dwarfs kiddie coaster and a couple princesses, then work through our FPs. This was a busy time and the new system worked awesome for last minute planning at MK. Not caring about the mine train certainly helps us, we have done it a couple times and just do not get the fuss. This strategy will work fine for AK also. HS and EPCOT need a couple more headliners for last minute FP selection to work well IMO.