A terrorism question for you.

[2Princes2Princesses]

My best friend went to high school and casually associated with Tim McVeigh. He also went to high school with a guy who beat his mom to death with a bat AND a guy who killed his whole family.

I had casual social encounters with one of the kids who was determined to be a member of a terrorist cell in a nearby town (Lackawanna, NY).

Does that make either one of us unpatriotic or terrorist sympathizers?? No. It doesn't.

I mean, does the fact that George H. W. Bush teamed up with Bill Clinton for tsunami relief and other things mean that he condones and supports Bill's Oval Office trysts and his subsequent lies about them??

 

[Christine]

My best friend went to high school and casually associated with Tim McVeigh. He also went to high school with a guy who beat his mom to death with a bat AND a guy who killed his whole family.

I had casual social encounters with one of the kids who was determined to be a member of a terrorist cell in a nearby town (Lackawanna, NY).

Does that make either one of us unpatriotic or terrorist sympathizers?? No. It doesn't.

I mean, does the fact that George H. W. Bush teamed up with Bill Clinton for tsunami relief and other things mean that he condones and supports Bill's Oval Office trysts and his subsequent lies about them??

I could never run for office. When I was 14, I went on a date with a guy who ended up (when he was 19) being involved in a murder-for-hire crime. He actually was very nice when he was 14 but got mixed up in some stuff as an older teen.

I also attended several meetings with a man who ended up going to jail for espionage--we happened to work on a common project. I wonder if that makes me a spy?

Quite honestly, if I was on a committee that was doing good works in the community and it was legit, I would not be concerned in the least about the other committee members so long as I did not become involved in what they do outside the committee. The goal is to do good with the committee correct? I think most people, who get involved on committees don't even think much about the personal/professional lives of other members.

 

[luvmy3]

If you want to get into stupid semantics, then one could say that the Bush administration were terrorists during the years that they bumped up to code orange every time something was not going their way.

That can be looked at as creating fear as a means of coercion of the American public.

And you are bringing up Bush because?

 

[bimshire]

Which is worse, associating with a domestic terrorist or protecting domestic terrorists?

"McCain's terrorism problem dates back to the early 1990s, when he sided with right-wing domestic terrorists and voted against tough new legislation cracking down on a wave of anti-choice domestic terrorism targeting women who visited abortion clinics, their doctors, and clinic staff.

In both 1993 and 1994, McCain voted against the anti-terrorism measure. On each occasion, McCain was one of thirty radical anti-choice Senators to oppose the bill Fortunately, despite McCain's opposition, it passed the Senate by a 69-30 margin.

At the time, right-wing anti-choice extremists were terrorizing women, doctors, and clinic staff across the United States with thousands of acts of physical violence and threats of violence each year. The new legislation was necessary because in early 1993, the Supreme Court had ruled that even though the terrorism crossed state lines, the federal government could not protect clinics without a specific grant of statutory authority.

After Dr. David Gunn was murdered by an anti-choice terrorist outside the Pensacola Women's Medical Services clinic, Congress finally passed the much-needed legislation giving authorities the tool they needed to protect women, doctors, and clinic staff from the ongoing threat of terrorism.

Most Americans welcomed the new law -- even including far-right conservatives such as Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell. Nonetheless, John McCain stood by his extremist views and opposed the anti-terror bill."

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/04/john-mccains-do.html

McCain votes protecting the terrorists who bombed abortion clinics and murdered many shows that he truly is in favor of fighting terrorists abroad and not those right here in the USA.

 

[DawnCt1]

Ayers is irrelevant. He is not now nor was he ever a friend of Barack Obama. Also, he never hurt a single human being, nor did he ever try to hurt a human being. But that is irrelevant, because Ayers and Obama are not friends. Factcheck.org say so.

As to al Qaeda's strength: they are still intact, they are still operational, they killed a US civilian in Yemen a month or two ago, they continue to kill our soldiers in Afghanistan. 7 YEARS AFTER 9/11!!!!!!!!! Furthermore, Osama bin Laden, celebrates as our economy collapses and calls it a victory for Islam. OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! WHy is he even breathing!!!!!!! We got Saddam, why can't we get bin Laden?????

There is a lot of indication that we haven't weakened al Qaeda much at all:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-07-11-us-terror-threat_N.htm


Failure. Utter, unequivocal, total FAILURE.

Fact check is seven guys that attempt to keep up with the issues. They are not always right. Stan Kurtz has done an extensive investigation into CAC and has reviewed all of the available documents. His opinion is quite different from yours and the NYTs, who did little to investigate the relationship.

No one said that AQ wasn't "intact" but they are severely downgraded. If Bin Laden assumed room temperature tomorrow, they would still be operational. That is the nature of terrorism. This is a war that your children and grand children will have to fight, where ever it is; or surrender to it.

 

[DawnCt1]

I could never run for office. When I was 14, I went on a date with a guy who ended up (when he was 19) being involved in a murder-for-hire crime. He actually was very nice when he was 14 but got mixed up in some stuff as an older teen.

I also attended several meetings with a man who ended up going to jail for espionage--we happened to work on a common project. I wonder if that makes me a spy?

Quite honestly, if I was on a committee that was doing good works in the community and it was legit, I would not be concerned in the least about the other committee members so long as I did not become involved in what they do outside the committee. The goal is to do good with the committee correct? I think most people, who get involved on committees don't even think much about the personal/professional lives of other members.

The difference is Christine, You didn't know that your 14 year old boyfriend was a future hit man, nor did you know that your fellow committee member was a spy at the time. Obama knew who and what Ayers is/was but he chose to launch his political career at his home and serve on committees, and distribute moneys as Ayers directed, anyway.

 

[rparmfamily]

I couldn't run for office either. I don't know the detailed background of all the moms on the PTO board at my kids school and that live in my neighborhood and I sometimes play Bunco with. Heck, I don't even know most of their last names!!!

My dreams are all going down the drain....

 

[DawnCt1]

I don't know the details of the ayers case...and i really have no need to know them...
but he was arrested , i presume , and if he did not serve time because the FBI did not follow the law.... then they are responsible for his lack of punishment....

I have served on boards with a couple of men who were arrested for trying to get together with underage girls on the internet... they are scum and I had nothing to do with it....

again ..i abhor guilt by association....

The FBI is responsible for his lack of punishment. he is responsible for his terrorism.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

Fact check is seven guys that attempt to keep up with the issues. They are not always right. Stan Kurtz has done an extensive investigation into CAC and has reviewed all of the available documents. His opinion is quite different from yours and the NYTs, who did little to investigate the relationship.

No one said that AQ wasn't "intact" but they are severely downgraded. If Bin Laden assumed room temperature tomorrow, they would still be operational. That is the nature of terrorism. This is a war that your children and grand children will have to fight, where ever it is; or surrender to it.

Stan Kurtz? Never heard of him. Care to elaborate? The article I cited was in USAToday. Is USAToday part of some conspiracy? Factcheck.org is a well-known non-partisan group. McCain even used them in one of his commercials. Kurtz? Never heard of him, sorry.

And I see you agree with Bush and McCain that this war will take forever. I have a different plan. Find the terrorists. Kill the terrorists. If Bush tried that instead of taking our whole military to Iraq, maybe we'd have made some progress. We found Saddam right? Why not the terrorists? The phony war is bankrupting us.

 

[Amlee]

As in my original post, I said I didn't in any way think Obama was connected to Ayers and his pass. I think a good part of us can look back over the years and think MAN! why did I hang out with that person!? I know I can.

My thought about this thread came about after watching The View and listening to them as they justified Ayers actions because of the time it took place. It hit me that maybe people might have different ideas of what a terrorist was. I really was appalled that people would justify the actions of someone because of the times it took place. I do believe it was Whoopie who said something like it was the 60s and a lot of America was mad at the U.S. government at that time. So that gives that man the right to bomb U.S. office buildings? To bomb a police station? So we can go back to the early 1900s and justify that Hitler had the right to slaughter Jewish people because it was a popular thought at the time? Oh do we want to go back and justify slavery? Since hey, it was that time you know!

To me anyone that threatens or harm someone or a group of people to make a point or, in the name of something is a terrorist. Sadly, that does include the U.S. I've often thought of them as a bully in things.

 

[DawnCt1]

Stan Kurtz? Never heard of him. Care to elaborate? The article I cited was in USAToday. Is USAToday part of some conspiracy? Factcheck.org is a well-known non-partisan group. McCain even used them in one of his commercials. Kurtz? Never heard of him, sorry.

And I see you agree with Bush and McCain that this war will take forever. I have a different plan. Find the terrorists. Kill the terrorists. If Bush tried that instead of taking our whole military to Iraq, maybe we'd have made some progress. We found Saddam right? Why not the terrorists? The phony war is bankrupting us.

General Petraeus and Al Qaeda declared Iraq the front in the war on terrorism. With regard to finding and killing the terrorists? We have troops all over the world, in places you don't think about, doing just that. Terrorism is like the head of Medusa. You cut one off, another grows back. They do not represent a specific country but an ideology of Islamist extremism. That is not going to change over night.

 

[luvmy3]

And I see you agree with Bush and McCain that this war will take forever. I have a different plan. Find the terrorists. Kill the terrorists. If Bush tried that instead of taking our whole military to Iraq, maybe we'd have made some progress. We found Saddam right? Why not the terrorists? The phony war is bankrupting us.

So, you don't think we have found any terrorists in the last 7 years?

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

General Petraeus and Al Qaeda declared Iraq the front in the war on terrorism. With regard to finding and killing the terrorists? We have troops all over the world, in places you don't think about, doing just that. Terrorism is like the head of Medusa. You cut one off, another grows back. They do not represent a specific country but an ideology of Islamist extremism. That is not going to change over night.

I heard Palin mention that in the debate. Now we are letting Al Qaeda tell us how to fight the war on terror!!!!!! GREAT IDEA!!!

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

No wonder the Republican war on terror is an UTTER FAILURE!!!!!

 

[Anewman]

Ok, with all of the comments on Obama's associations with Bill Ayers and those defending it. Or saying what Ayers did happened years ago and is a changed man now. Not just on the board, but in the media also.


I have to ask would you say the same about the people who were behind the 9/11 bombing or the OK bomber, or the London bombers, or the people behind the Holocaust, how about the guy who did all the shootings a few years back in Washington?

I'm not saying Obama is in any way connected to what this man has done in his past. BUT, I don't think Ayers actions can be justified by saying oh it was done way back when, and now he's not that way.

Thing is that Ayers is not running for office, PERIOD. IMO the guy will/should never get a security clearance.

I do not justify the actions of any terrorist, even if they think their cause is worthwhile. Example: Abortion clinic bombers.

This "association" is just like claiming that Bush and the Bin Laden Family were business partners, it is a matter of perception.

 

[LuvDuke]

For me it's not about how long ago Ayers' crimes were, it's that the nature of Barak Obama's associations with him were completely separate from any sort of anti-government or terrorist activities. Like it or not, this guy is big enough in Chicago to serve on the boards of some pretty big charity projects. That to me is the bigger issue- there could be a good argument that these organizations shouldn't want to be associated with him. But the fact that Obama also served on the board of one of these organizations doesn't change my opinion of him- it's not like they were in some dark basement plotting a revolution.

Maybe the right ought to consider the possibility of shutting down all of Chicago. Yanno, associations and such.

Honestly, the last gasp of the McCainiacs has crossed into the Bizarro world. What is the point of this latest talking point?

 

[akhenaten]

I do believe it was Whoopie who said something like it was the 60s and a lot of America was mad at the U.S. government at that time. So that gives that man the right to bomb U.S. office buildings? To bomb a police station? So we can go back to the early 1900s and justify that Hitler had the right to slaughter Jewish people because it was a popular thought at the time? Oh do we want to go back and justify slavery? Since hey, it was that time you know!

To me anyone that threatens or harm someone or a group of people to make a point or, in the name of something is a terrorist. Sadly, that does include the U.S. I've often thought of them as a bully in things.

i think that those who would use whoopies argument would say that your hitler example should be reversed..
some would believe ayers fight against the government would be as if someone bombed hitler because of his treatment of the jews.....
(i do not believe in violent means of protest.... i prefer the ghandi/mlk civil disobiedience)

 

[Aristomommy]

I couldn't run for office either. I don't know the detailed background of all the moms on the PTO board at my kids school and that live in my neighborhood and I sometimes play Bunco with. Heck, I don't even know most of their last names!!!

My dreams are all going down the drain....

So if you find out that one of the PTO moms was involved in a terrorist plot and bombings, would you continue to associate with them? The point is not knowing, the point is knowing and then associating yourself with them. And also money being issued to each others organizations back and forth in large amounts.

I don't think Obama is a terrorist based on his association with Ayers. But he hasn't picked the best friends and allies who helped him into his political fame. He is quick to disown his pastor, his "friends" when they become a liability, which also speaks of his character.

 

[akhenaten]

So if you find out that one of the PTO moms was involved in a terrorist plot and bombings, would you continue to associate with them? The point is not knowing, the point is knowing and then associating yourself with them. And also money being issued to each others organizations back and forth in large amounts.

I don't think Obama is a terrorist based on his association with Ayers. But he hasn't picked the best friends and allies who helped him into his political fame. He is quick to disown his pastor, his "friends" when they become a liability, which also speaks of his character.

If i was 45 and the plotting happened when I was 8.... and the "terrorist" was now a professor and active member of my community...
yes!

 

[Amlee]

Thing is that Ayers is not running for office, PERIOD. IMO the guy will/should never get a security clearance.

I do not justify the actions of any terrorist, even if they think their cause is worthwhile. Example: Abortion clinic bombers.

This "association" is just like claiming that Bush and the Bin Laden Family were business partners, it is a matter of perception.

Honestly I most likely would have never known who Ayers was, if it hadn't of come up in this election. An this thread wasn't suppose to have been about Obama, McCain or anything other than people justifying Ayer's action.