A Seat Saving Situation I Saw Today

[Scurvy]

so they had jackets but they went outside to have a smoke and didnt take their jackets. so why did they have jackets for just so they could have something on the seat when they went to have a smoke?

Maybe, or maybe they thought they might need it later in the evening after it cooled off more. I used to do that when I went places with my child when he was small. That way if I had to take him to the restroom there would be a clear indication to anyone who showed up while we were gone that the seats were taken. I certainly wouldn't expect someone to just take my word for it that I was in the seat before them.

ETA - I agree with Wishing on a Star. When I'm out with a group of adults we always leave someone with our seats if we have to leave them for a few minutes, just so we can avoid situations like this.

 

[JLTraveling]

PS: We NEVER completely vacate our space as a party.... Not in this type of situation... People shift out so that somebody is always there.

While the rude and entitled people should not have insisted that they have these seats.... maybe this was a bit of a lesson learned by the folks that got pushed out.

I totally agree with both of these thoughts. Unless you're alone or with a very small child, you should always be able to leave your seats in shifts--for bathroom breaks, smoke breaks, dancing or whatever. I absolutely think the smokers *should* have gotten their seats back, and that the seat-grabbers were rude and out of line, but I KNOW based on experience that's exactly how things usually go. So I agree, I hope the smokers learned not to be so trusting next time.

OP, I don't think there's anything you could have done. Smokers said something, you said something, rude people clearly weren't going to be shamed or intimidated. Not worth allowing the situation to escalate.

 

[surfgirl]

Like anything else in this world, it is situational.

If there was a waiting line of 20 people waiting for a seat, does that matter ? Were the drinks left on the bar full or empty ? How do we know that one of the 'seat stealers' didn't have a back problem and couldn't stand for longer than 5 minutes ? Maybe this was the 3rd smoke break and the seat stealers had watched them, as a group, disappear for 15 minutes each time. Maybe there was prior history...

Give me a perfect storm and there is a justification for every behavior. Maybe they stood there for 10 minutes and watched and no one was sitting in 4 bar stools in a row. 15 minutes in a bar can be a long time if you've already been standing there for 15 minutes waiting for a seat...

just thought I'd take the other side... it isn't fun unless *someone* does, right ?

 

[Planogirl]

I would complain to the manager about this. People getting up in bars for various reasons is real normal.

 

[surfgirl]

I would complain to the manager about this. People getting up in bars for various reasons is real normal.

If I wasn't directly involved, I would stay out of it. When you combine alcohol and sports, stupid things happen. Someone is ticked, regardless, and you don't want to be in the middle.

 

[handinpocket]

If I wasn't directly involved, I would stay out of it. When you combine alcohol and sports, stupid things happen. Someone is ticked, regardless, and you don't want to be in the middle.

I'm sure she means if she was "the smoker person" who left the seats. I wouldn't complain for a random person, but if I was said smoker person, those people would leave or manager would be involved.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I can always tell when I am in a decent establishment, when one often sees a manager, dining/bar/shift manager... somebody who is wandering thru, keeping an eye on things, asking if your food/service/etc. is all right....

Whenever there is bad food, service, situations with other patrons, etc... inevitably, it is when everyone knows that there is no 'effective' management to be found.

If that was the case, and I was involved, I might try catching their eye...

If neither of the above is true... Sometimes you just gotta chalk it up, and

 

[surfgirl]

I'm sure she means if she was "the smoker person" who left the seats. I wouldn't complain for a random person, but if I was said smoker person, those people would leave or manager would be involved.

gotcha. thanks for the explanation. agreed.

 

[ajk912]

To me, if you are in a bar type place and you get up, you lose your seat. That being said, if I saw a jacket on a seat, I wouldn't move it to sit there

Yup, you don't hold seats at a bar. You should be mingling to talk to people, but if you are not a mingler then unless it's a table you are up, your lost your seat. You can't save a barstool, seems like a silly idea to me.

 

[ajk912]

Like anything else in this world, it is situational.

If there was a waiting line of 20 people waiting for a seat, does that matter ? Were the drinks left on the bar full or empty ? How do we know that one of the 'seat stealers' didn't have a back problem and couldn't stand for longer than 5 minutes ? Maybe this was the 3rd smoke break and the seat stealers had watched them, as a group, disappear for 15 minutes each time. Maybe there was prior history...

Give me a perfect storm and there is a justification for every behavior. Maybe they stood there for 10 minutes and watched and no one was sitting in 4 bar stools in a row. 15 minutes in a bar can be a long time if you've already been standing there for 15 minutes waiting for a seat...

just thought I'd take the other side... it isn't fun unless *someone* does, right ?

Ditto. I know many bars have limited seats and it's mostly standing room. It's really not cool to save a seat when you aren't sitting there. If you are going for a quick potty break and it's two minutes or less and there's a full drink in front of you..ok, you should expect your seat when you get back.

And to be honest I remember back in my bartending days, unless a person was a good tipper it's quite annoying when they hog a seat right up front all night long. If you are going to tip a dollar on your beer, please drink it semi-quickly and move on, turn and burn baby. Or stand like everyone else. I know that sounds mean but bartenders make their money in bulk (again, unless someone is a great tipper or has a huge tab, but most of those people are minglers instead of chilling in the same seat for hours).

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

my policy is "Move Your Feet, Lose Your Seat"
we as a group usually leave one person sitting if we want our seats back.
in a bar type of situation where alcohol=courage=bad decisions, you always have to realize that a fight can insue over what would normally be a minor thing. i generally don't care for my seat enough to fight over it.

 

[Jingle]

I talked to a friend who was there with us yesterday and apparently there was some discussion about this with the workers/management after we left, the game was over and things died down a bit.

It appears that management is of the opinion that smokers can leave their chair to go out and smoke and expect to get their seat when they come back--within reason I'm sure. Realistically they need to leave something to mark their chairs, and I think the jackets were sufficient. The rest of us sitting there knew they were just running out on commercials or half time. This happened right after half time when the people had maybe been out a few minutes more than when they were just running out on commercials.

This was a new issue for them as a smoking ban just went into effect here July 1st. They are getting some cards or place holders that say something like Seat Reserved--Out Smoking. However, I don't really think that would have made a difference in this situation any more than leaving a coat on their chairs did.

I do agree that four empty chairs at a bar during a game can look tempting, but I wouldn't take them with the jackets hanging on the back or I would have at least asked someone sitting by there if the seats were taken.

As with most things there's more than one way to look at it.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I talked to a friend who was there with us yesterday and apparently there was some discussion about this with the workers/management after we left, the game was over and things died down a bit.

It appears that management is of the opinion that smokers can leave their chair to go out and smoke and expect to get their seat when they come back--within reason I'm sure. Realistically they need to leave something to mark their chairs, and I think the jackets were sufficient. The rest of us sitting there knew they were just running out on commercials or half time. This happened right after half time when the people had maybe been out a few minutes more than when they were just running out on commercials.

This was a new issue for them as a smoking ban just went into effect here July 1st. They are getting some cards or place holders that say something like Seat Reserved--Out Smoking. However, I don't really think that would have made a difference in this situation any more than leaving a coat on their chairs did.

I do agree that four empty chairs at a bar during a game can look tempting, but I wouldn't take them with the jackets hanging on the back or I would have at least asked someone sitting by there if the seats were taken.

As with most things there's more than one way to look at it.

You touched on a point that really makes the situation different from getting up to "leave the bar". If there wasn't a no smoking ban, those patrons would likely have never left their seats in the first place except to maybe go the bathroom or get another drink. In cases like those who took the seats with the jackets on the backs of them, perhaps a law that says you have to go outside to make or take a cell phone call would be in order. Then maybe that group (who likely all have cell phones) would understand just how rude and unfair their actions were.

Unfortunately, you can't legislate bad behavior and narcissistic people. The only answer for it is to go smoke in shifts with a few people holding down the table while the others smoke. DH and I are fortunate in that we patronize bars and restaurants where everyone seems to understand that the table is being held because the smokers are forced to leave to go outside for a few minutes. The owners will go out of their way to make sure our table is held because they know that the longer we stay the more we buy/tip.

 

[surfgirl]

The owners will go out of their way to make sure our table is held because they know that the longer we stay the more we buy/tip.

how much did they drink and tip while their seats were empty for 15 minutes?

and the next smoke break... and the next smoke break.

I agree, tough issue, no easy answer. I've been in restaurants/bars where the only way to get a seat is find someone paying and stalk their table. If I saw 4 empty seats at the bar for 15 minutes while I was stalking another table trying to get seated, I'd be annoyed.

As for the cell phone thing, do 4 people get up for 15 minutes *together* and use cell phones ? I think that is the icing... that there were 4 seats together.

 

[PatsMom]

I probably would not have made a scene just because booze and sports do wind up causing some to make very bad decisions. But as a former smoker I would have been irate to come back and find my seat taken. Same thing if I had just got up to visit the bathroom - and anyone who goes to a sports bar to watch a game knows that the bathrooms just fill up during half time, commercials, etc.

The folks who took the seats were rude. But the smokers were correct to just back off after making it known that they wanted their seats back. Anyone rude enough to take the seats is probably obnoxious enough to start a pretty good fistfight. Or at least a shouting match.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Please don't take this the wrong way, and I am not a smoker... but addiction to nicotine is no different than any other addiction. It doesn't make the person less of a human being. Yes, they are harming their health, as is the person who is eating double helpings of fried food and decadent sweets.

Tolerance goes a long way. I feel it is going by the wayside.....

I am confused. Are you saying that someone who is addicted to something else, IS less of a human being?

Everything else I agree with, but I'm scratching my head a little at that part.

 

[Scurvy]

I am confused. Are you saying that someone who is addicted to something else, IS less of a human being?

Everything else I agree with, but I'm scratching my head a little at that part.

The part you quoted says "but addiction to nicotine is no different than any other addiction". I'm guessing you did what I did when I first read her post, and missed the "no".

 

[Ciao Mickey]

They tried to say that they were their seats, jackets and some glasses were there, but the people sitting there said they would not move. The "smokers" took their stuff (four people) and left.

Fifteen minutes is a long time to leave stools vacant in a sports bar.

I don't think they should expect their seats to be there when they returned.

What I am wondering is why did they all have to go at the same time? If they were concerned about their seats being there when they returned they should have left someone behind to guard their seats.

They should be grateful that their jackets were still there...

 

[cluvsdisney]

I think it's entirely reasonable that the seats be available when the patrons returned from smoking outside. I am surprised the bartender didn't tell them there were paying customers sitting in the seats. There's a smoking ban here and when this situation occurs the bartender will explain that those seats are taken. Now this bartender lost 4 paying customers and possibly received a smaller tip because of the situation.

 

[Carly_Roach]

how much did they drink and tip while their seats were empty for 15 minutes?

and the next smoke break... and the next smoke break.

Hey, tables ain't parking meters and people aren't drinking and tipping by the minute.

Most of the bars and restaurants we patronize were places that catered to the smoker. Since the ban, we hear more and more from waitresses who say people don't hang around as much as they used to. They'd eat their dinner then leave immediately because they want to smoke. What used to happen before the ban is that people would linger after dinner, have a smoke, order more coffee or dessert and the price of the dinner (and tips) would increase as they stayed for an hour or so.

Thing are probably different in restaurants where they're packing 'em in and shoving them off as soon as they're done (give me my money and get the hell out of here so I can sell more). But around here bars and restaurants are little communities in and of themselves. It's not uncommon to see someone get a $12.00 lunch and leave a $20 bill behind to cover it.

Perhaps things are different where you are. I'm used to people being considerate of each other. If a group of people leave their jackets on chairs, they're coming back. It's respected.