A review and a letter

[ladyjubilee]

I appreciated your letter, but it does highlight the different needs we all have. Disney was one of the few places we could ride rides when my son was little. He just could not handle the transition of rides with a definite start and stop. The first trip to Disney, I figured we'd go to the park, ride a ride, then be back at tge pool in an hour. But the first time we tried the moving walk way on the Peoplemover and got to ride off...magic. Even now, we start our trip at Magic Kingdom, the first ride is either Peoplemover or Mermaid. That soft transition just works for him. Now we can go rope drop to close, and even have season passes at a local park (though we don't really ride anything). So for our family, I like that there are a variety of ride types. I too really appreciate the staff at Toy Story Mania. We get to go to the accessible line and they are always so patient as I struggle to get my son off the ride.

 

[DisneyOma]

My big problem with Navi is that this was a brand new ride designed and built from scratch 20+ years after the ADA.

Yes, and it has accessible boarding - not all attractions have to be made to handle all disabilities (because that would be impossible unless all rides were pretty bland) and Navi has the step-thingy to aid in transfers. Since it is pretty much a bland ride (no drops, dips, sharp turns) it could have been designed with a wider, deeper waterway to handle a bigger boat, but not sure how that would fit in the ambiance they were trying to vreate.

 

[arminnie]

Yes, and it has accessible boarding - not all attractions have to be made to handle all disabilities (because that would be impossible unless all rides were pretty bland) and Navi has the step-thingy to aid in transfers. Since it is pretty much a bland ride (no drops, dips, sharp turns) it could have been designed with a wider, deeper waterway to handle a bigger boat, but not sure how that would fit in the ambiance they were trying to create.

I agree that not all attractions have to be made to handle all disabilities. Not all rides have to be able to take a chair. That step thing will most likely allow me to board. It's the "unboarding" that will be problematic. There's no way I am going to be able to get out of that low boat. I'm debating just riding it once and seeing what will happen when I cannot get back out.

Many individuals who can walk just fine cannot step up out of a low boat. Stepping down is much easier than stepping up for most folks.

 

[cmwade77]

Yes, and it has accessible boarding - not all attractions have to be made to handle all disabilities (because that would be impossible unless all rides were pretty bland) and Navi has the step-thingy to aid in transfers. Since it is pretty much a bland ride (no drops, dips, sharp turns) it could have been designed with a wider, deeper waterway to handle a bigger boat, but not sure how that would fit in the ambiance they were trying to vreate.

It wouldn't be hard to make one boat that can at least accommodate a wheelchair, unfortunately due to the size of the boats the person in the wheelchair may be riding alone, but it could be done, even with the boats at their current size.

I also take issue with FOP for not thinking about this need as well, it definitely could have been done easily and they could have made a few seats for larger guests as well.

 

[DisneyOma]

It wouldn't be hard to make one boat that can at least accommodate a wheelchair, unfortunately due to the size of the boats the person in the wheelchair may be riding alone, but it could be done, even with the boats at their current size.

I also take issue with FOP for not thinking about this need as well, it definitely could have been done easily and they could have made a few seats for larger guests as well.

How would they compensate for the higher center of gravity?

 

[DisneyOma]

I agree that not all attractions have to be made to handle all disabilities. Not all rides have to be able to take a chair. That step thing will most likely allow me to board. It's the "unboarding" that will be problematic. There's no way I am going to be able to get out of that low boat. I'm debating just riding it once and seeing what will happen when I cannot get back out.

Many individuals who can walk just fine cannot step up out of a low boat. Stepping down is much easier than stepping up for most folks.

That's why we always ride with my mom in the middle where possible - one to pull her up, one to push her butt! When that isn't possible, we have her sit on the exit side (and that's fun, trying to remember which side is the exit side on each attraction) and then one of us gets out, and that's the person who pulls and the one next to her in the ride vehicle gets the butt

 

[mamabunny]

How would they compensate for the higher center of gravity?

Theoretically it's no different than rolling a wheelchair onto Small World or Gran Fiesta Tour. Center of Gravity makes no difference in a flat, shallow water boat ride like that, if the chair is braked and/or tied down properly.

That's why we always ride with my mom in the middle where possible - one to pull her up, one to push her butt! When that isn't possible, we have her sit on the exit side (and that's fun, trying to remember which side is the exit side on each attraction) and then one of us gets out, and that's the person who pulls and the one next to her in the ride vehicle gets the butt

That's a nice system, but not all of us have the luxury of traveling with a "pusher" and a "puller". As @arminnie said, many of us can take the step(s) down - it's coming back up out of the boat that is problematic. Personally, I would require assistance to sit, assistance to stand, and assistance out of the boat - and even then I'm not 100% comfortable that I could get back out of that boat; the steps coming back out are too high/steep.

 

[SueM in MN]

It wouldn't be hard to make one boat that can at least accommodate a wheelchair, unfortunately due to the size of the boats the person in the wheelchair may be riding alone, but it could be done, even with the boats at their current size.

The boat is too small to roll onto with a ramp like Small World.
It would need to have a ramp that folds down from the side like Buzz Lightyear or Imagination. I don’t think that type of opening can be done on a boat ride (one because it’s not on a track for turning and also because of sealing the door against water.
A boat so small that it could only hold a wheelchair would not be compliant with the ADA - a companion seat is required.

I also take issue with FOP for not thinking about this need as well, it definitely could have been done easily and they could have made a few seats for larger guests as well.

Even though it would be nice if there was an area where guests could ride sitting in their wheelchairs, the ADA just has requirements for space to make a transfer, which FOP does comply with.
They actually did more then is required, with a specially designed transfer wheelchair. My DH and I lifted our daughter out of her wheelchair onto the ride vehicle and found it to be a very easy transfer. We had as much space as we needed. Her issue was the ride had too much sensory input, not the transfer or how securely she was held.
As far as seats for larger guests, it seems like proportion and things like leg length and calf size make a big difference, along with exact position. Many people who thought they were too big , either from height or overall Pooh size, have reported being able to ride.

Theoretically it's no different than rolling a wheelchair onto Small World or Gran Fiesta Tour. Center of Gravity makes no difference in a flat, shallow water boat ride like that, if the chair is braked and/or tied down properly.

The boats on the Pandora ride are too small for a ramp like Small World, al least what I can tell from multiple times riding. A ramp needs to be 10-12 inches long for every 1 inch change in height. It would also need to be wide enough to turn around after getting in.
I don’t think center of gravity would be a huge issue, but the Small World and Gran Fiesta boats are not flat. The ramp to get onto the boat extends all the way to the front of the boat. That puts the wheelchair lower during the ride than the level when getting on.

 

[DisneyOma]

Theoretically it's no different than rolling a wheelchair onto Small World or Gran Fiesta Tour. Center of Gravity makes no difference in a flat, shallow water boat ride like that, if the chair is braked and/or tied down properly.



That's a nice system, but not all of us have the luxury of traveling with a "pusher" and a "puller". As @arminnie said, many of us can take the step(s) down - it's coming back up out of the boat that is problematic. Personally, I would require assistance to sit, assistance to stand, and assistance out of the boat - and even then I'm not 100% comfortable that I could get back out of that boat; the steps coming back out are too high/steep.

Having worked on boats most of my life, yes it does make a difference. Even the guard rail in the water doesn't stop the boat from a good tip that could send the person over the side.

Knowing that one needs assistance in or out means the person should bring people along to help - personal responsibility at its finest. My mother would not go if we were not with her, as she would not expect anyone else to haul her butt out (her words) in a public place. There will come a time when we are too old ourselves to haul her out, so then we would bring the kids along. They may end up having to haul us out as well I don't see that as a luxury, BTW, but as personal responsibility.

 

[mamabunny]

Having worked on boats most of my life, yes it does make a difference. Even the guard rail in the water doesn't stop the boat from a good tip that could send the person over the side.

Knowing that one needs assistance in or out means the person should bring people along to help - personal responsibility at its finest. My mother would not go if we were not with her, as she would not expect anyone else to haul her butt out (her words) in a public place. There will come a time when we are too old ourselves to haul her out, so then we would bring the kids along. They may end up having to haul us out as well I don't see that as a luxury, BTW, but as personal responsibility.

Oh I fully agree - it's *my* responsibility to bring along the assistance that I need. And since I can't do that right now, I don't ride those rides.

My point was that many of us don't have the ability to bring the number/type of extra people that you do Having that one extra person to be either in front, or in back might well make the difference for me. I'm glad that you can do that for your Mom