A religion question...

[mudnuri]

This is not a place for a debate, but that rather of a place for discussion...

heres' the scenario


DD9 is baptised. She was baptised by a catholic church here...her father was married before I met him and divorced as well...no annulment

DD7 was not baptised. Same church, same preist. preist said not without an annulment. her father said no way, thats saying the marraige never happened and it did for 8 years.

DD9 has been pressured by DXMIL to take cadacism (how the heck doyou spell that)...its on sundays - dec-april. The same sundays DD9 and I ski at Okemo.

DD7 will not be able to take cadacism.

I say- no way hosay- if they wont recognize the birth of my 2nd daughter, my 1st daughter should not be in their "religion"....her father says- its her choice. Well, DD9 wants to ski, ....her choice has become DXMIL's choice... "all of her grandkids are confirmed"...blah blah DD7 will NEVER be confirmed.... or baptised...do you not get this?

What should I do?

ps. sorry, I just came back from a night out with the girls, and my typing isnt the greatest right now

Brandy

 

[jimmiej]

They're your kids- you decide.

 

[N.Bailey]

This is my problem with the Catholic Church. Well, one of many I guess. Most churches have the policy, come as you are and God will make of you what he wishes (after salvation). The Catholic Church doesn't have this philosophy IMO, it's just wrong. You must conform to their way of thinking, or go elsewhere.

In the end, you need to decide for your family what's best. The Catholic Church isn't going to budge to accommodate you.

 

[Disney Doll]

I would double check the information about your child not being able to be baptised because her father is divorced.

I did not think that divorce filtered down to the children of the divroced person.

I know that adhering strictly to the rules of the Catholic Church, if the person was married the 1st time in a Catholic Church, then in the eyes of the Church, they are still married to the 1st spouse, even if they are legally divorced, therefore any marriage after the 1st cannot take place in a Catholic Church without an annullment, and any marriage after the 1st is not "recognized" by the Catholic Church.

Again, I am referring to religious vs. legal here, and am not in any way making personal commentary on anyone's marriage.

However, I didn't think the marital status of the parent affected the child's ability to receive sacraments. The priest at your Chruch may be interpreting things his own way.

 

[ElizK]

Do you want them to have religious training? Maybe a Protestant church would be a better fit for your family.

 

[Feralpeg]

Something similar happened to one of my step-sisters. My step-mother is Catholic. She was divorced. She married my dad who was not Catholic. When it came time for my step-sister to be married, she wanted my dad to walk her down the isle. The priest would not allow it since he said the church did not recognize my dad and step-mother's marriage. It ended up not being an issue because my dad died just before her wedding.

 

[golfgal]

The parents issues should not filter down to the children. I know plenty of people where one person is Catholic and one is not and their children are baptised in the Catholic church, a few of them are divorced and no annulments, too. I can see why the xmil wants the 9 year old to go to Faith Formation (the new PC term for catechism) as she should have been in the preparation for her First Communion. I would find another church, personally. Your priest doesn't sound very welcoming. Not all Catholic churches are like this and it isn't the church that is the issue, it is the priest.

 

[Christine]

I think you need to get another opinion on the baptism of your DD7. My friend is Catholic but is in a marriage that is not recognized from the church. Both of her children, however, have had "the works" done. Of course, each time she does something like get them baptized, confirmed, etc., she does get a little letter from the priest letting her know that THEY wish she would get her marriage recognized in the churce. But it has never stopped her children from pursuing their Catholic education.

 

[mudnuri]

I did not think that divorce filtered down to the children of the divroced person.

I know that adhering strictly to the rules of the Catholic Church, if the person was married the 1st time in a Catholic Church, then in the eyes of the Church, they are still married to the 1st spouse, even if they are legally divorced, therefore any marriage after the 1st cannot take place in a Catholic Church without an annullment, and any marriage after the 1st is not "recognized" by the Catholic Church.

Okay this is exactly what the preist said.

Her father- in the eyes of the church- is still married to wife #1. He would be standing on the alter with me, and our DD asking for baptismal, while the church believes he is still married to wife #1...... make any sense how I explained that?

The part that bothers me the most, and I said this- my girls are only 15 months apart, so the same preist was there the entire time. In July of 1996 he baptised DD9 and when we went in October of 1997 he would not baptise DD7.

One reason DD9 wants to go to cadacism is because her cousin made first communion last year. of course with my XMIL thats a big deal, and she had a huge party etc.etc.

When i explain to DD9 that sunday is the day they hold classes, and we ski on sundays, she wants to ski. Until she is with the XMIL then she wants to do the classes.

I should note, in the 12 years i was with their father, we went to church on holidays, and memorial masses. We never went every sunday. EVER. Easter, Christmas, and his grandmothers memorial mass...that was about it.

out of the 4 boys, only 1 XBIL goes to church every week, the other 3 do not. all of them, and I were confirmed, etc.... so yes I guess I am "catholic"...however when my children are seperated, and one is "illegitament" I have an issue with this.

There is nothing in our papers that goes over religion, we have shared custody 55/45, and discuss everything that goes on with the kids that is a major decision....however, he's going to cave to his mother, and I'm going to stand up for DD7 who will be left out of this, and DD9 who really wants to ski on sundays......its going to be a battle.

Brandy

 

[BuckNaked]

I agree with Christine, I would check with another priest or parish about this. I know that at our church, the priest would never deny a baptism in those circumstances. But at our school, we have a child that transferred in from another Catholic school because she was expelled from the school when her parents divorced.

 

[goofy4tink]

Wow...I think maybe it's time for you xmil to have less say in your children's lives!!! While I do understand how important her religion is to her, she really has no business interjecting her beliefs onto her grandkids. It is your job to provide your children with their religious upbringing. I know my mom was always very upset by my db and dsil's lack of religious imput in my nephew's lives. In fact, my mom always took it upon herself to baptize each of her grandchildren herself...just in case the parents didn't!!! You should do what is right for you and your kids. Might be time for you to look into a different parish. Can your priest give you any reason why he baptized one child and won't the other?? I would be interested in his answer.

Want to share a somewhat sad story with a happy ending regarding the RC church and remarriage. My dad lived in sin with my step mom for several years. He was divorced but her dh wouldn't give in. When he finally did, they were married. But, my step mom is a devout Catholic. She couldn't be married in the church that she so loved. Now, this was over 30 years ago. She has not received Communion in all that time. It was really hard for her to not be able to do that, especially when it was a special time...like my dd's baptism or first communion. Well, my mom died 2 yrs ago. And now, my step-mom's ex just died a month ago. So, the whole 'till death do us part' thing has come to fruition. Dad and step are going to be finally married in the Catholic church so that she can receive Communion at last. He is 76, and she is 66....the priest actually had them sign a form promising that they would bring any children of the marriage up in the Catholic faith!!!! In all those 30 yrs that woman never once received the Holy Sacraments. Now, that is a devout believer. Can't say as I agree with her choice (being an Episcopalian myself) but you have to admire her for it.

 

[Disney Doll]

I don't think I am understanding your situaiton fully.

1. Are both your DD's with the same man? I was under the impression that DD9 was with your 1st husband and DD7 with your 2nd, but I could be wrong (you posted something about DXMIL...where does she fit in?) Is the man you are currently married to your DD's father?

2. So, the same priest that's refusing to baptize DD7 now is the one who baptized DD9 a couple of years ago? Same father, same situation. That seems strange.

3. Why are your kids being baptized at an older age? Usually the Catholic Church does it early on, while the kids are babies or very young. Usually if an older child is being baptized, it is because of special circumstances such as adoption. Adults who convert get baptized as adults.

This is not meant to sound judgemental in any way, so please don't take it as such. It is intended more as "food for thought". It sounds as if there is not a huge commitment on the part of you or the girls' father to raise them Catholic. Somewhere in your post you stated that "when you were with their father, you went to church on holidays, memorial masses" and such. Historically, the Catholic Church takes their sacraments pretty seriously in terms of what they mean as far as the commitment to the religion, the parents commitment to raising the children in the religion, the responsibilities of the religion etc. It sounds as if there is not a full commitment to do so with your kids, and that you are thinking about the sacraments because the children's grandmother says they should be done. Sacraments should only be done with the right feeling behind them, not because that's what Grandma wants, or because one kid has had the sacraments so the other should, or whatever. Sacraments should not be done because "everyone else" is doing them.

I have been a lifelong Catholic, and believe me, the religion is not always easy to practice. It is still the best religion for me , but that doesn't make it the right religion for everyone. You and your family deserve to derive the greatest benefit from your religous practices as you can, in terms of bringing you comfort and peace, along with a sense of "belonging", a sense of who your God is, what your relationship is with your God etc. Rather than getting your child the sacraments in a religion that may not be "right" for your family, because Grandma says the kid should have the sacraments, why not look into other religions and see if one is a better fit? See if one would draw you more to want to participate? My best friend's sister, who is also a very good friend of mine, was born and raised Catholic, has 2 aunts who are nuns, decided a few years back that she was not liking the Catholic Church, has joined the Congregational Church and loves it, is involved, is happy, is getting all the benefits form religion that one should get. It has really enriched her life to be practicing her religion differently, and I can only be happy for her.

I did e-mail a priest friend of mine who is quite familiar with Canon Law(as a matter-of-fact, he will be moving to Rome soon to work at the Vatican) to see if your priest's interprtation is correct. If he replies, I will let you know.

I will keep an eye on this thread until it goes down the Catholic-bashing road (which appears is going to start soon...it always does here on the DIS! ) at which point I will remove myself. But if my friend does answer my e-mail, I will get the information to you.

 

[yeartolate]

I have heard (not Catholic here) that some churches approach the "rules" differently. If it is your desire to have religious training for all of your children, can you "interview" other churches in your area to see how they will treat your kids?


I have a tough time believing that the church would deny your children because of your husband's divorce. Have you researched this policy yourself? It would seem "un-Christian" to deny the children because of the "sins" of the father. I just cannot fathom the church doctrine supporting this.

 

[Pin Wizard]

I have to agree it sounds like the priest/pastor of that particular church. My sister is divorced. Several years ago she pulled her son out of public school and put him in a Catholic school. This was around 6th grade for him. They did the "fast track" with him...he was baptized as a baby and that's it. When putting him in the Catholic school, they did Penance, First Communion, and Confirmation all at the same time.

At my church I attended in FL, their forms never even asked if either me or my husband were previously married. All I gave them was that my husband was protestant. Not a problem with them. You may want to check into another church in your area. Hope you find something you're happy with!

 

[canwegosoon]

I do not get the "punshing the child for sins of the father thing that seems to be going on with your priest"...what if your children had been adopted? You are a Catholic, you want to raise your children catholic....I know the church can not reconize your marriage, but you do have children..and I do not believe they shoud be denied Baptism or Coumminion for that matter. I think I would find another Church. FYI I am Catholic/my DH is not and my children were baptized(and my father was Catholic/my mother was not), and will be making their First Holy Coumminion this year. I wonder if your DH converts to another religion if there is any thing your priest can do.

 

[MandM-Mom]

I would try discussing this with another Priest. When I got married in the Catholic Church we first discussed our marriage plans with a priest in our church that was very "old school', he wanted be to be baptized catholic and go through sunday school, yeah okay buddy!!! Then we started talking with another Priest at our church and we really liked him, he understood I was not baptized and did not want to force it on me, he married us with the full Catholic Ceremony and both my children have been baptized with him as well. He realized times change and that "some" things can be negotiable, I still took the pre-marriage classes with him and my husband, I just am not baptized catholic, maybey some day I will.

 

[toto2]

Maybe our catholic church is more liberal here in Québec. My brother and his girlfrien have been togheter for 15 years , living in "sin". They are not married and dont intend to. Both there childreen ( now 6 and 10) are babtised , and my niece had first communion and everything.

 

[brerrabbit]

The punishing the child for the sins of the father thing is ridiculous. Any faith should welcome children and fully support their religious education and comfirmation into the faith. The Bible teaches us that original sin is washed away with the baptism so your daughter is not associated with any prior sin. Would this same Priest refuse to confirm an orphan whose parents were living in sin prior to their deaths? I won't bash the Catholic church because I was one for 40 years till we became Methodists but I will say that individuals within the Catholic church make it very hard to be Catholic all the time ( I have a bunch of examples)

 

[Keli]

It sounds as if your DXMIL has convinced your dd that she wants to do this? If that is true then I would let her. It's not her fault either that her younger sister was not allowed to be baptised. I know you have issues with your younger dd not being baptised and therefore can't be confirmed and that would aggrivate me too. Honestly, I would allow older dd to be confirmed, and I would talk to a priest about getting younger dd baptised (from what others have said apparently you had an usually strict priest the first time so I'm guessing it wouldn't be terribly hard to get dd2 baptised now). Then I would allow dd2 to be confirmed if that were her desire. I wouldn't stand in the way of either of my children making a move toward God.
BTW, this is the opinion of a non-Catholic, never been Catholic, Pentecostal.

 

[poohqueen]

I am not catholic, but was almost once upon a time. When I was born, back in the 70's my parents married at the time, wanted to have me christened. Now my DM was catholic and my DF was Baptist, so because my father was not catholic they would not christen me. So because of that I grew up in the baptist church, because my Grandmother took me. My parents have since gotten divorced and my father remarried. When he and my Step-Mother were preparing to get married in the Catholic church, my mother had to sign a form giving her permission for them to be married. Even though my parents were not married in the Catholic church. I just found it funny, because they had been divorced for 12 years.

IMO you have to do what is right for you and your family. I don't think that it is fair to punnish the child for the actions of their parents. I think that if it were me and my whole family wasn't excepted, then I would find a church that did except us all. Even though half of my family is Catholic I have a hard time understanding some of their doctrine. But in the end we all believe in the same God, and lucky for us he makes the final judgement. We as humans made up the different denomiations. God does not see us as Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans, Penticostal, we are all his children, and in the end we will all be with him living as one happy united family.