A question re faster lens options for shooting Marching Bands

I've ditched my kit lens for a couple of lenses that offer one focal length through the entire focus range of the lens. I think you mean one aperture thru the entire zoom range..??My shorter lens is a Tamron F2.8 17-50mm lens. The F2.8 f-stop lets me shoot much faster at ISO 800 and I like the fact that it's wide, so I can get the full band from the side lines. My longer lens is a Minolta F4 70-200 (affectionately known as the "beer can" lens in the Sony/Minolta world, due to it's size similarity to a 12oz can of beer). I love this lens, but when I break it out for night shows, I almost have to go to ISO 1600. Either that or really make sure I'm only snapping pictures when the band stops moving. There are faster lenses out there, but they are significantly more expensive than what I've spent so far.

If you would like to check out some pictures I've taken, feel free to poke around my Smugmug site. Our Band and Drum Corps gallery is here:

http://maekchu.smugmug.com/Band & Drum Corps

Many of the Troopers pictures and the Mount Pleasant 2007-2008 pictures were taken with our Sony Alpha A-100. There are also pictures my wife and kids took with their cameras, but you can tell mine because most have the Sony name in the EXIF data.


some of my problem shots.

I kind of float between full manual mode and aperture priority at this point. I only recently started playing with the aperture priority after accidentally pushing the shutter speed too fast on a bright day,too fast a shutter speed would cause your pics to be underexposed, not blow out your highlights,,guide me to those shots, something else must have gone wrong.. which blew out a lot of the highlights for about half the show. The cool thing about the aperture priority setting is it allows you to manually set the ISO setting, aperture is set with the quick wheel on my camera (but I don't typically play with it during a show), and the shutter speed is automatically set.

The funny thing at this point is that I'm getting shots that I completely missed last year with our point and shoot, which is awesome. But I'm also learning to be more picky about the results. It's a constant learning process, but it's also fun. I'm saving now for a big honking, bright lens, but that will take a while. For now I enjoy playing with what I've got.

Jeff

one trick for night shows, since your lighting basically stays the same,{ but if you get too much dark sky in the shots it will throw your meter off..}

meter off of the empty field, before the show starts, take a few shots, pic the best settings, set these on manual mode and your shots should be good thru the whole show, since your ambient light is consistant, as long as the lighting is fairly even across the whole field..

if you can find one on ebay, tokina has a nice ATX 70-200 2.8 lens that can be found for way less than the Minolta version, I have one and love it...there are 2 versions one with a red ring on it, and then the ATX pro which has a gold ring.. I have the ATX pro, not sure how the other compares..but the ATX pro sold new for around 1000, I got mine for around 300
 
You're right, I meant the same aperture through the entire zoom range. I got the shutter speed backwards as well. Go to the following link, you'll see where I jumped from an exposure time of .0015s (1/640) in the first picture to an exposure time of .004s (1/250) in the rest.

http://maekchu.smugmug.com/gallery/3604932#205140107

You can see in the picture below how the face is too bright and the uniform isn't even as black as it should be.

205145987-L.jpg


Thanks for the tip on the lens. I'll keep an eye out for that.
 
I've been working on the issue myself. My kids both march with the High School band and my son also marched drum corps this year. Night games and contests were my main motivation to move to a DSLR. Learning some of the basics that allow me to use the manual modes has been key. I've also spent a fair amount of time on this forum and other camera specific forums. From there, I also purchased a field manual for my camera, that basically offered a translation of the owners manual into usable English. Here's what I've found so far.

First, as mentioned above, there is noise filtering software out there. I use NoiseNinja, but there are plenty of other options out there. The results you can get with noise filtering software is pretty amazing, when you have to go up to higher ISO (800/1600) settings. For night shots, I usually shoot at ISO 800, sometimes ISO 1600. 1600 gets pretty noisy with my camera, but it's about the only thing I can use with my longer lens.

I've ditched my kit lens for a couple of lenses that offer one focal length through the entire focus range of the lens. My shorter lens is a Tamron F2.8 17-50mm lens. The F2.8 f-stop lets me shoot much faster at ISO 800 and I like the fact that it's wide, so I can get the full band from the side lines. My longer lens is a Minolta F4 70-200 (affectionately known as the "beer can" lens in the Sony/Minolta world, due to it's size similarity to a 12oz can of beer). I love this lens, but when I break it out for night shows, I almost have to go to ISO 1600. Either that or really make sure I'm only snapping pictures when the band stops moving. There are faster lenses out there, but they are significantly more expensive than what I've spent so far.

If you would like to check out some pictures I've taken, feel free to poke around my Smugmug site. Our Band and Drum Corps gallery is here:

http://maekchu.smugmug.com/Band & Drum Corps

Many of the Troopers pictures and the Mount Pleasant 2007-2008 pictures were taken with our Sony Alpha A-100. There are also pictures my wife and kids took with their cameras, but you can tell mine because most have the Sony name in the EXIF data.

Here are a few of my favorites:

My son, taken with my Tamron lens:
198838975-L.jpg


My daughter, also with the Tamron lens:
218000289-L.jpg


A couple taken with the Minolta lens from the top of the stadium:
203139367-L.jpg

203147626-L.jpg


If you haven't visited Smugmug, I like the site because it's easy to view the EXIF (photo data). This gives you an idea of what ISO, f-stop and shutter speed was used on the picture, which helped me reverse engineer some of my problem shots.

I kind of float between full manual mode and aperture priority at this point. I only recently started playing with the aperture priority after accidentally pushing the shutter speed too fast on a bright day, which blew out a lot of the highlights for about half the show. The cool thing about the aperture priority setting is it allows you to manually set the ISO setting, aperture is set with the quick wheel on my camera (but I don't typically play with it during a show), and the shutter speed is automatically set.

The funny thing at this point is that I'm getting shots that I completely missed last year with our point and shoot, which is awesome. But I'm also learning to be more picky about the results. It's a constant learning process, but it's also fun. I'm saving now for a big honking, bright lens, but that will take a while. For now I enjoy playing with what I've got.

Jeff

Thanks Khokhonutt! Your pictures are really nice! Love the uniforms. They look like the Blue Devils! My son's band used to have 'real' band uniforms, but they are in transition this year with a lot of new Freshmen players, and since they spent so much time getting ready for their China trip, the directors didn't have time to plan on new uniforms for this year. :scratchin They knew they wanted new uniforms, and didn't have time and didn't want the new kids to have to pay for old uniforms only to change it again next year. :sad2:

I have the Field guide for my camera, but other than shooting the band, I haven't really had time to use my 70-300 VR lens so that's my excuse for the poor shots! :laughing: I should have practiced more. I knew coming to this board would get me immediate answers. EVeryone here is so awesome!

I'm going to look into the Noise filtering software. I did try a few shots at 1600, but I was scared they would come out too noisy. Now that you've mentioned Smugmug, I think you've given me a really good excuse to get an account. Up until now, the only way for me to evaluate the exif data on my 'puter would be to open each picture up in Irfanview. That's a pain!

I gotta get back to reading my Understaning exposure, I'm sure that would help a lot too! I was seriously considering dropping the $1700 to get the Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom Nikkor Lens. It's nice to know I didn't have to. I may still end up getting it in the future though...We'll see...A girl's gotta have her toys!:rotfl:

Aloha!
 

DisneySuiteFreak, great job. Nice to see you improvement. I bet it feels pretty good. One point though is that for the setting you have with those shots, I would not go below ISO800 and also don't be affraid to use 1600. Like Steve's Girl mentioned, there is noiseware out there that will help a lot. Back in the film days, grain was something that wasn't considered all that bad. Noise is pretty much the same thing, so don't be too affraid of it, especially if you don't plan on doing a lot of cropping. Keep up the great work.

Jeff, nice job with your images.


Thanks handicap18! I think I have some other test shots of other bands at ISO 1600 and they came out fine. I was afraid to use it for my son's band pics though. I think I'm going to get a smugmug account to make it easier to evaluate the photos I've taken and figure out what I'm doing.
You know what freaked me out about using high ISOs is that I took a few at ISO 400 (Handheld) at my son's Homecoming game and they were totally blown out. I think I'll post a few and maybe you all can tell me what I did wrong...
Here's the blown out pic:
DSC_0940.jpg
I believe this one was at ISO 400.
I bet it's blown out because I was using matrix metering and you could see the evening sky... I thought that matrix metering was better to use overall because the D80 is so intelligent and that's what I've read a lot of people recommend...So is that what I did wrong in this shot?
 
Now that you've mentioned Smugmug, I think you've given me a really good excuse to get an account. Up until now, the only way for me to evaluate the exif data on my 'puter would be to open each picture up in Irfanview. That's a pain!

Keep in mind that you should be able to view your exif data (assuming you're using Windows) by locating the file, then getting the properties of the file. Basically you find the file, right-click and select Properties. Click the Summary tab, then click the Advanced button on that page.

I've found that some picture editing software will lose that information, but that process should work for any file that comes directly from your camera. I'm not trying to talk you out of Smugmug, like I said, I love the service, but I'm not sure I'd pay for the server, just to view the exif data.

Thanks for the compliments on the uniforms. They were new last year and we spend the better part of a year fundraising to get them. They do look sharp.
 
Keep in mind that you should be able to view your exif data (assuming you're using Windows) by locating the file, then getting the properties of the file. Basically you find the file, right-click and select Properties. Click the Summary tab, then click the Advanced button on that page.

I've found that some picture editing software will lose that information, but that process should work for any file that comes directly from your camera. I'm not trying to talk you out of Smugmug, like I said, I love the service, but I'm not sure I'd pay for the server, just to view the exif data.

Thanks for the compliments on the uniforms. They were new last year and we spend the better part of a year fundraising to get them. They do look sharp.

DUH! All this time I would right click properties and I couldn't see the exif data because I didn't click on summary. Thanks for that!
 
Keep in mind that you should be able to view your exif data (assuming you're using Windows) by locating the file, then getting the properties of the file. Basically you find the file, right-click and select Properties. Click the Summary tab, then click the Advanced button on that page.

Wow. Amazing that I never knew this. And here I downloaded Opanda for Exif viewing. At least it is freeware, but now I will just use this method! Thanks for mentioning it.

As stated, I don't think I would pay for smugmug (maybe it's free, I don't know) just for exif info. If the method above doesn't work, try downloading the Opanda I-Exif viewer plug-in and it works just fine. Not sure if it is good for Mac users or not, but it is fine for Windows Explorer or firefox users.
 
DUH! All this time I would right click properties and I couldn't see the exif data because I didn't click on summary. Thanks for that!

Wow. Amazing that I never knew this. And here I downloaded Opanda for Exif viewing. At least it is freeware, but now I will just use this method! Thanks for mentioning it.

As stated, I don't think I would pay for smugmug (maybe it's free, I don't know) just for exif info. If the method above doesn't work, try downloading the Opanda I-Exif viewer plug-in and it works just fine. Not sure if it is good for Mac users or not, but it is fine for Windows Explorer or firefox users.

Cool. Glad that helps.

Yeah, I'm not trying to steer you away from Smugmug, I'm just not sure it's worth it for that. It is a pay service and it's great for sharing and posting photos. The thing that made it worth it to me is the fact that they put no limits on the number of files or bandwidth that you use.

They advertise themselves as a backup solution for your photos. Your pictures will be saved and replicated in 3 different locations on their servers, plus whatever you're doing at home. That's a big deal because people often miss the fact that an offsite backup is the only thing that would protect you from a catastrophe at your house. That's what made the fee worth it to me.
 
another great hosting site if you should choose to get one..

is zenfolio

they are similar to smugmug, the reason I chose them over smugmug, is the ability to order my pics directly from mpix


smugmug uses ezprints.....zenfolio uses ezprints and mpix...

since I use mpix anyway it was a simple choice for me..

if you should decide to use zenfolio here is a discount code that will save you 5 dollars..
XE1-C1X-2JF


www.starrrshots.com will take you to my pics on zenfolio if you'd like to see how their site works..

they are currently working on a premium membership, that will allow setting prices so other people can order your pics , and also allow you to watermark your pics.

that has a projected release date of 30-60 days, last I heard..
 
both of these are easily fixed...


Image2-vi.jpg


Image3-vi.jpg
 
I bet it's blown out because I was using matrix metering and you could see the evening sky... I thought that matrix metering was better to use overall because the D80 is so intelligent and that's what I've read a lot of people recommend...So is that what I did wrong in this shot?


I would definitely recommend using at least center-weighted metering or even spot metering on the D80 for night shots such as these. There is so much dark being accounted for in that particular photo that matrix is having a hard time exposing correctly. Matrix metering on the D80 certainly has some strong points but it is also known to overexpose in some situations.

You could also bump up to 800 ISO with really no noise problems in that shot. 1/8" seems a bit slow as a result of being at 400 ISO.
 
I would definitely recommend using at least center-weighted metering or even spot metering on the D80 for night shots such as these. There is so much dark being accounted for in that particular photo that matrix is having a hard time exposing correctly. Matrix metering on the D80 certainly has some strong points but it is also known to overexpose in some situations.

You could also bump up to 800 ISO with really no noise problems in that shot. 1/8" seems a bit slow as a result of being at 400 ISO.

Thanks NostalgicDad!
 
another great hosting site if you should choose to get one..

is zenfolio

they are similar to smugmug, the reason I chose them over smugmug, is the ability to order my pics directly from mpix


smugmug uses ezprints.....zenfolio uses ezprints and mpix...

since I use mpix anyway it was a simple choice for me..

if you should decide to use zenfolio here is a discount code that will save you 5 dollars..
XE1-C1X-2JF


www.starrrshots.com will take you to my pics on zenfolio if you'd like to see how their site works..

they are currently working on a premium membership, that will allow setting prices so other people can order your pics , and also allow you to watermark your pics.

that has a projected release date of 30-60 days, last I heard..

Thanks for all that info Mickey88. I have webshots account that I pay for. I was wondering if you (or anyone else) know anything about that company. I heard that they compress the photos to be posted on their site, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. I have unlimited hosting and I pay $29 a year. If the other companies are better I may be looking to change. I've had webshots for years...
 
Hey Mickey88,
How did you fix it? Tell me, tell me! :yay:
DSF



I simply opened it in paint shop pro photo,

clicked adjust,

then brightness and contrast,

then i picked the black eyedropper and clicked on a spot in the pic that should have been black..drum...uniform pants...

that automatically adjusted the levels so that item was black
 
Thanks for all that info Mickey88. I have webshots account that I pay for. I was wondering if you (or anyone else) know anything about that company. I heard that they compress the photos to be posted on their site, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. I have unlimited hosting and I pay $29 a year. If the other companies are better I may be looking to change. I've had webshots for years...

i used fotki for years, but decided I wanted something that looked more professional, I stumbled upon zenfolio

membership there right now is 40 a year unlimited storage and bandwidth, plus the ability to order direct...

the premium membership once released will cost more, but I will definitely be upgrading..
 
I simply opened it in paint shop pro photo,

clicked adjust,

then brightness and contrast,

then i picked the black eyedropper and clicked on a spot in the pic that should have been black..drum...uniform pants...

that automatically adjusted the levels so that item was black

Cool!
 
I simply opened it in paint shop pro photo,

clicked adjust,

then brightness and contrast,

then i picked the black eyedropper and clicked on a spot in the pic that should have been black..drum...uniform pants...

that automatically adjusted the levels so that item was black


Thanks for the tips. I've played with recovering the picture, and have a better version on my computer, that I have not updated on the shared site. It's still pretty difficult to recover the facial features in the photo, though, and for me that's the important part.

That being said, my point was not so much how to recover the picture, it was more to make the point that a slip of the adjustment affected the remaining pictures in that show. Then to mention the idea that was given to me, to set on aperture priority and let the camera figure out the speed. Granted, that technique works much better during the day, than it does at night (at least so far for me), but it's still something to play with, or at least pay attention to.

Having said that, DisneySuiteFreak, it would be a good idea to look into an image application that will edit the RAW images directly (something like Lightroom). You'll be amazed at what you can do with the pictures in RAW form, especially when you incorporate decent noise reduction software.

J
 
Having said that, DisneySuiteFreak, it would be a good idea to look into an image application that will edit the RAW images directly (something like Lightroom). You'll be amazed at what you can do with the pictures in RAW form, especially when you incorporate decent noise reduction software.

J

Thanks Khokhonutt. I guess that will be my next purchase and thing to tackle.
 














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