a note to servers

[goofyernmost]

Agreed, the world has gone crazy. Really, carding 80 year olds? I would feel completely ridiculous doing that, I don't care that some bureaucrat has made it a rule/law. A 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 year old is clearly of age, it's a waste of everyone's time.

The law states that you cannot serve or sell alcohol to someone under the age of 21. There is no law broken if the person is over 21, carded or not. If they sell to a minor and hadn't carded them they are in big trouble, but you can sell alcohol to a person of the proper age all day long without seeing a card and nothing bad will happen to you, law wise.

It is the establishment that makes the rule to card everyone so they can have their butts covered without having to rely on an employee not making a mistake in judgment. When the establishment decides to inconvenience or humiliate an older person just to cover themselves then frankly they should not expect to get my business. This is a completely self protecting "rule" and not a law. I know that sometimes it is hard to tell the age of people but I can tell you right now that Ray Charles could have been able to tell that I was well over 21. I am not blaming the employee's because they are in a no win situation, but, perhaps if enough "older" folks express their displeasure by withholding patronage, then maybe the thought will sink into desk pushing management that there might be a better way.

If I go into an establishment for a drink and I am asked to show ID at this point in my life, I will just get up and leave. No one, I promise, will say...he must have been under 21 that's why he left. They will know, because I will tell them not only by words but by gray hair, wrinkled skin and that angry look on my face that only us codgers can come up with. I've paid my dues in this life and I am not about to be some "victim" of an over protective dweeb, that is afraid to make a decision or a judgment. (management, not server)

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Even if there is technically a "rule" that says card everyone an intelligent human being can make a call on their own. There are all kinds of technical rules I have to deal with every day and when common sense says don't inconvenience the customer for red tape I don't follow an arbitrary rule that makes no logical sense. These are the kind of employees I don't want. I want people who can apply some rationale to a situation and make a call.

There is no way the liquor board will fine a restaurant for not carding an 83 year old woman and that is all they have to really worry about.

It sounds like some states are requiring that you card everyone- so yes, they can get fined if they are in such a state. Other states have laws that you card if someone looks under a certain age- usually 40. That can be very subjective. Before I worked there, the restaurant I served at was fined for serving to a minor during a sting. The kid honestly looked over 21 and the bartender didn't card him. I know the bartender and he is incredibly vigilant. I'm not sure what happened that night, but it was a huge deal for the restaurant. It's more than a minor inconvenience. For us, it was a large fine that as a mom and pop type business was very hard to pay.

Punishing the server for management's decision or the law is just rude (IMO). As others have mentioned, many stores secret shop. Steak and Shake did it. If you got every one of the asinine criteria right, you got a hundred dollar bonus. If you missed even one thing, management talked to you. You never knew who the secret shoppers were. I thought some of the requirements were stupid, but it's the standard the company set and I had to follow it as an employee. Not every company is as willing as Disney was to let their base rates use common sense.

It's the principle of the thing. If servers are having their tips reduced by being forced to apply a ridiculous blanket policy then maybe there will be a backlash from the serving staff and the policy will change to allow them to use at least a little commons sense and make a judgement call. Clearly if you are giving somebody a seniors' discount, they are over 21.

Luckily, in Canada, the legal drinking age is 19 in most provinces and 18 in a couple. I don't know of anywhere that applies a blanket policy for ID. When I was a server, we asked people who basically looked younger than 25, but even that was on our judgement.

If servers even know that is why. I never had a guest tell me why I had a crappy tip. I've served in three separate restaurants. I never knew if it was because they had no money, I had done something they didn't like, etc. So to expect people to automatically know their carding you is why they are getting a lousy tip is ridiculous. If you don't like it, talk to the manager or e-mail the company. Don't be passive aggressive and take it out on the server who is just trying to do their job.

 

[FayeW]

If servers even know that is why. I never had a guest tell me why I had a crappy tip. I've served in three separate restaurants. I never knew if it was because they had no money, I had done something they didn't like, etc. So to expect people to automatically know their carding you is why they are getting a lousy tip is ridiculous. If you don't like it, talk to the manager or e-mail the company. Don't be passive aggressive and take it out on the server who is just trying to do their job.

I wouldn't expect them to automatically know, I would make sure they knew by canceling my drink order and telling them I was upset with the policy. I never said they would get a lousy tip, either. I said if the servers had reduced tips, they might go to management and do something about their asinine policies.

However, it isn't something I expect to have to deal with since it is different here in Canada, and I rarely travel in the US. Last time we ate at 'Ohanas, we did have a drink and we were not asked for ID.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Even if there is technically a "rule" that says card everyone an intelligent human being can make a call on their own. There are all kinds of technical rules I have to deal with every day and when common sense says don't inconvenience the customer for red tape I don't follow an arbitrary rule that makes no logical sense. These are the kind of employees I don't want. I want people who can apply some rationale to a situation and make a call.

There is no way the liquor board will fine a restaurant for not carding an 83 year old woman and that is all they have to really worry about.

Shaw's Supermarkets card every customer who buys cigarettes. Period.

Fenway Park cards every patron who buys a beer (and allows, I think, only one beer per customer at a time). It's posted at all registers where beer is available.

These aren't arbitrary rules and they absolutely make sense. There's no judgement call necessary. Nobody can get offended or claim the cashier is picking on them for ANY reason. Show ID, purchase your beer. Don't show your ID - or, obviously, show one that doesn't look anything like you or proves you're under age - no beer. You can't claim someone is discriminating against you because of how you look - too young, suspicious, anything. EVERYBODY shows ID to get beer. Period.

 

[Bluestars]

Pulling ID out and showing it can't take more than 30 seconds. There are a million other things in life that would upset me more than showing ID for something.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Had I known ahead of time I would have just gone somewhere else. Instead the best way of showing my displeasure was in adjusting down the tip, which I did and will continue to do in such situations. I view it as poor customer service to apply unnecessary boiler plate to a situation. I wouldn't do it to my customers in a situation like this and I expect the same when I am the customer. In a service industry that kind of thing is just unacceptable to me.

So instead you feel it's reasonable, fair, and sensible to penalize the server for enforcing a rule set by management?

Understood that you-the-manager would find some other way to, in this case, determine the legality of your customers drinking. Since the managers/owners of the restaurant in question did not use a method you find satisfactory, why did you instead not penalize THEM - by letting them know at the time that you were unhappy with their methods, either by direct conversation, or by walking out, or by not drinking?

Again, your server doesn't make the rules. Your server is just trying to do their job pleasing multiple bosses - restaurant management and all their customers.

 

[kaytieeldr]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. As a general rule I hate having boiler plate rules that only serve the purpose of a technicality applied to me (well, my grandmother and mom in this case). This is only one example of such a rule and as a consumer I vote with my dollars. It is the way the free market works.

I realize it isn't a popular view, especially with servers out there, but it is just one of those things that really gets under my skin. Again, I expect to be carded, I could pass as a H.S., student but to card someone in their 80's really is ridiculous.

So when the location has a policy "We card everyone" and then they don't card your mother and grandmother because they're senior citizens, (a) they're violating their own policy and (b) they're opening themselves up to arguments and difficulties with ALL other customers who notice the discrepancy between policy and practice. People WILL notice.

Oh, and your company requiring ID to access the building is entirely different from a business that sells alcohol requiring ID from purchasers. Your policy is your company's policy; when it comes to alcohol, it's law.

 

[FireDancer]

So when the location has a policy "We card everyone" and then they don't card your mother and grandmother because they're senior citizens, (a) they're violating their own policy and (b) they're opening themselves up to arguments and difficulties with ALL other customers who notice the discrepancy between policy and practice. People WILL notice.

Oh, and your company requiring ID to access the building is entirely different from a business that sells alcohol requiring ID from purchasers. Your policy is your company's policy; when it comes to alcohol, it's law.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I was talking about our customers who frequent us often, not our employees. The lady who owns the stationary store next to one branch, for example, is known by everyone and doesn't have to show ID, even though that is technically a policy.

We trust our employees to make judgment calls, like determining without verification that a WW2 veteran or someone who could have voted for FDR is old enough to order a drink.

Sometimes your compensation is effected by something out of your control and this just might be one of those times. It happens with stock, profit sharing, commissioned sales, and when you rely on tips from a customer that doesn't like a policy. Tis life.

I'm a pretty good tipper and it takes something out of the ordinary to make my take some away. I usually tip at least 20% but in this case the person got 15% do it isn't like I left a quarter and some lint. I just get annoyed when this kind of garbage is done in any service industry.

 

[cheermom1]

While I agree that carding everyone especially those that are for sure old enough to be your grandparents needs to be a judgment call, but we have something that is called a law. Sorry that it offends some people but I really think you that are offended need to look at it from the servers point of view. It is a law that id is required to serve alcohol and if they don;t card and someone really is under age then they can get sued.

I get that some people don;t like being carded really I do but like I said it is law and if you really think it is that big of a deal you need to do what you can to change the law not be mad at your server for following the law so she won't get canned! Nor do i think you should not tip just b/c they were doing their job. It is not the servers fault at all.

I don;t really understand the big deal anyway, just show them your id and be done with it there are way bigger fish to fry than being annoyed that you were carded!

 

[FireDancer]

No, the law states you can not sell alcohol to someone under 21, not that someone who is obviously over that age must prove it every time, especially if they are 60 or 80. Restaurant policy is not law.

Does anyone think for one second that a liquor control agent or under cover officer is going to challenge that someone in their 80's is under-aged whether they were carded or not? They are not idiots and they can see it would just be a waste of their time. They are the police, they have actual crimes to prevent.

I am not budging on this one. There is no reason to card everyone every time if there is no doubt. Someone 30 or 40 that looks questionable, maybe. Someone 80, never, and no one will convince me other wise. What is next, checking ID before you sell them a ticket to an R-rated movie? That is just as ridiculous

 

[kaytieeldr]

I'm gonna try this again, Frank. Try speaking with your VOICE, not with your money. Tell MANAGEMENT how you feel about their policy of carding everyone. Or, if you're going to speak with your money, do it completely. Don't patronize places that have policies with which you don't agree. But PLEASE, don't penalize the server for following procedures set by the company for which they work.

 

[cheermom1]

But here is the deal, no matter where you work you will rules that you don;t like but you have to follow. This happens to be one that is at a restaurant and the servers CAN NOT help but follow that rule or they will get fired. I still don;t understand the big deal to show id if you want to drink. It is just something that comes with ordering a drink for goodness sake. Either live with it or don;t order a drink there simple. Or you could complain to the management but no guarantee will change but don;t take it out on the person who has NO control over the rules they have to follow. Yeah they can complain just as you can but still no guarantee it will change.

My point is to try to change it through management or don't order a drink from there and go somewhere else or buy it from the store and take it home!!!

 

[leight]

I am over 40 now and I still get carded to play lotto. I probably look like I am in my early 30's.

At Publix they run your license thru the cash register computer when you buy beer/wine. I don't mind because that is for everyone.

The only time I mind is when Dh & I go out and I get carded and he doesn't. If you are going to question me- question him. We went to a hockey game and we were standing online for a beer together- he was very insulted that they didn't ask him for his id-just mine! I don't go out without my license- I expect it but am surely not flattered.

Funny- I remember when I was under 21 and was never carded! I prefer it nowadays -as inconvenient as it is.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Not everyone is flattered when they are carded.

Last night DH and I went out to dinner. I ordered a drink and the waitress asked to see my ID, I asked her if she would also like to see my AARP card while I had my wallet out. I was nice about it and said it in a joking way, but I was still a little miffed that I had to drag through my purse at the table to find it.

I am asked many times if I qualify for the senior discount and with my white hair, there is NO CHANCE I am anywhere close to being 21. In fact I am often mistaken for my DDs grandmother!

She said they were told people are flattered when they are asked when they are obviously not close to 21.

Like I said, I wasn't flattered, just annoyed.

Actually, I remember my sister dating a guy who was her age who had a big patch of white hair. Even though they were the same age and they were both under 21, he looked a lot older because of his white hair.

I wouldn't assume that everyone with white hair was over 21 or even a grandparent. My mom and her dad both had white hair at very young ages. In fact, my mom could never remember her father with anything but white hair.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, the law states you can not sell alcohol to someone under 21, not that someone who is obviously over that age must prove it every time, especially if they are 60 or 80. Restaurant policy is not law.

Does anyone think for one second that a liquor control agent or under cover officer is going to challenge that someone in their 80's is under-aged whether they were carded or not? They are not idiots and they can see it would just be a waste of their time. They are the police, they have actual crimes to prevent.

I am not budging on this one. There is no reason to card everyone every time if there is no doubt. Someone 30 or 40 that looks questionable, maybe. Someone 80, never, and no one will convince me other wise. What is next, checking ID before you sell them a ticket to an R-rated movie? That is just as ridiculous

No, but I would not put it past them to do a serious makeup job on a minor to see how the store handles it--and then arrest the cashier/server and fine the establishment for not verifying age.

Will it happen? I don't know.

Could it? Sure it could.

Movie ratings (IIRC) are set voluntarily. With exception of what is considered pornography--there is no law that restricts entry to such movies.

 

[Metsfan520]

I'm gonna try this again, Frank. Try speaking with your VOICE, not with your money. Tell MANAGEMENT how you feel about their policy of carding everyone. Or, if you're going to speak with your money, do it completely. Don't patronize places that have policies with which you don't agree. But PLEASE, don't penalize the server for following procedures set by the company for which they work.

 

[SandrA9810]

I'm with Frank on this one. There might be rules... but they should be treated as guidelines. Not every situation is the same, and common sense needs to be taken into consideration. Even when it comes to a manager reprimanding an employee.

I'd probably be the first one fired for not carding an 80yr old. There's no way I'm going to question or doubt that person's age.


I had a server at the Outer Rim bar (contemp) harrass me one afternoon. I sat down in the bar area, with my book in hand next to the window. Now at Disney, as long as there is an adult, children can be in the bar area, just not sitting at the bar.
She came over, and started asking me, where are your parents, are you here with your parents... blah blah blah. I said, no I don't need my mother to be here. I finally told her I'm 25. All she had to do was ask me for my age, not assume my age, and start asking me ridiculous questions. After that, there was no way I was going to order anything. So I sat there with my coke in my refillable mug reading my book.

 

[FireDancer]

I'm with Frank on this one.

Woo hoo

Welcome to the dark side...we are penguin friendly.

 

[SOnotLayuh]

I agree with Frank as well.

 

[goofyernmost]

No, but I would not put it past them to do a serious makeup job on a minor to see how the store handles it--and then arrest the cashier/server and fine the establishment for not verifying age.

Will it happen? I don't know.

Could it? Sure it could.

Movie ratings (IIRC) are set voluntarily. With exception of what is considered pornography--there is no law that restricts entry to such movies.

That would make this country a pretty awful place to live wouldn't it? Kind of makes me sad if that actually did happen. That would make us no better than any fascist nation anyplace.