A little bit of a rant about bus courtesy.

[Jillpie]

To the OP, I would agree with you at any place else except for disneyworld. I do not mean manners aren't meant for Disneyworld, if anyplace they need to be adhered to here. But as far as the buses go, the people that truly cannot stand have so many buses to choose from. Why would a very pregnant woman or an elderly person board a very crowded bus in the first place? Shouldn't they just wait a couple of minutes for the next one? I have three boys, and the first thing they learned was to be polite and to have manners. My 15DS gives up his seat all the time, and so does my DH. However, I am the first person to say, lets wait for the next bus if this one was too crowded. Our feet are very tired and we need a seat. So why can't the elderly person etc. do the same?

 

[punkin]

GAIL:

I can't believe you're "older than dirt" Who's that young chickie in that Epcot picture you have posted?

Honestly, I don't know why I'm debating this since I almost always rent a car and hate taking the busses (actually, I have been on a WDW bus exactly 3 times in the past 2 years) but I really think that people used to have stricter manners.
It's not a matter of being entitled to someone else's seat (no one is entitled to anything on public transportation) it's just that I can't believe the people who are sitting wouldn't have compassion for others who obviously need the seat more than they do. I would. Many people posting on this thread would.

 

[crisi]

Do you really think manners have gotten worse? Since when? We had a lot of people give up seats to us at Disney traveling with two small kids and two seniors just recently. Our last trip was significantly better in terms of no line jumpers, people giving up seats on buses, no overheard swearing in the parks, and that sort of thing than our previous trip two years before (of course, our previous trip was during the cheerleading contest - so far more packs of roving teens). And if I think back ten years or twenty years I really don't notice much of a difference (except twenty years ago their were fewer busses and you could catch the monorail between parks and few guests were able to stay on site). I also don't notice a difference in my day to day life - but I'm a young person at a mere 37. However, I've had these conversations with my parents, who are twenty odd years older than I am and they don't notice a difference either.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by punkin
It's not a matter of being entitled to someone else's seat (no one is entitled to anything on public transportation) it's just that I can't believe the people who are sitting wouldn't have compassion for others who obviously need the seat more than they do. I would. Many people posting on this thread would.

I have offered my seat on buses to others more often than I can count, not just at Disney, but in Chicago! You should see the looks I get when I stand up and offer a lady my seat. After the initial shock, they are usually grateful.

That said, how do I know that someone needs that seat more than I do. I'm not psychic; I don't have x-ray vision. I'm tired and my feet are sore -- just like them. Am I supposed to query each standee and determine who is the most worthy or needy?

Personally, I don't think Disney ought to pack their buses so full, especially with standees. I've tried switching with someone standing in these situations and it can be awkward, humorous, contorting and potentially dangerous, especially if the bus is already moving.

I don't apply a hard & fast rule to this. It depends on the situation. Like others have said, if you choose to board a bus that is obviously full and has no seats, don't get your hopes up that someone's going to give up their seat to you. You make the choice and should be prepared to accept the consequences.

 

[punkin]

crisi. I sincerely hope that you are right.

 

[crisi]

Well, saying that everything (morals, courtesy, what have you) is going down hill and civility is ending has a long tradition. Socrates and Samuel Pepys are both on record as complaining about the morals of "today's youth." If its been going downhill since the time of Socrates, it must have been a real pinnicle in his time.

Standing here in 2003, we often see the 1950s as some sort of golden age, but if you read some contemporary accounts, courtesy then isn't what it had been, the youth are corrupt, and society is going to be completely bankrupt unless we put a stop to it. I bet that if I took the time to do some research, I can even find someone complaining about people not giving up their seats on the bus for their elders.

 

[punkin]

I for one would be shocked to find Socrates and Pepys complaining about giving up bus seats.

BTW, I have no idea what things were like in the 1950s. All I do know is that MY mother taught me better in the 1970s.

 

[jacksonsmom]

Originally posted by punkin
jacksonsmom, I just wanted to tell you that I agree with you wholeheartedly and your post was much more eloquent than anything I could put together (I tend to sound beligirant even when I'm trying to be nice)

Particularly, this part:

"I think the American society has lost its manners along the way. It used to be standard manners that you gave your seat up for the young & eldery (or pregnant ladies)
I don't care if I have to stand but I could not sit in a seat when I see a young child or older adult hanging on for dear life!!!
Guess it just has to do with how someone is/was raised."

Thank you! That was how I was raised, to help others in need & I feel real little ones or elder people don't need to be standing on a moving bus.
I also feel that when I or DH does this it is teaching my son a lot more then just words could teach him. I am trying to teach him to think of others, not yourself all the time.
Yeah, my feet are tired & sore & I would LOVE to sit down but I try to think of others that might need the seat more then I do at that moment.

 

[jacksonsmom]

Originally posted by Jillpie
. But as far as the buses go, the people that truly cannot stand have so many buses to choose from. Why would a very pregnant woman or an elderly person board a very crowded bus in the first place? Shouldn't they just wait a couple of minutes for the next one?

Like I said I have done that, waited for a different bus because I do not want my preschooler to be standing. I have been glared at by others in the line behind me for not boarding that crowded bus.
I even had one cranky man make a comment about 'hogging' the seats!
So, I can see why some people would not want to wait for the next one, especially if they have done it before & got rude looks or remarks.

 

[Figaro]

"When I was a kid (around the time dirt was invented) I was taught to give my seat up to older people, regardless of gender.
I was NEVER instructed to give it up to a smaller child. Personally, I find it abhorant that a parent, knowing the bus is full, would subject their child to the dangers of standing and find it absurd that they would board this crowded bus with the assumption that someone, older, was going to give up their seat for this child."

Gail, you and I must be around the same age, as this is what I was always taught too. And if I genuinely believed that my child was at risk by standing on a bus I would wait for another bus or make sure that I always drove to the parks so that my child would always be safely seatbelted in.

I wonder what the real statistical risks are on buses compared to cars? A number of years ago I read a fascinating book called: "When a Mathematician Reads the Newspaper" and when I finally realized that I ignored very real risks and was fearful of pretty much non-existent risks I quit worrying about a whole bunch of stuff(smile).

My spouse always stands on the bus unless it is empty. He prefers to stand (or so he says), but I am pretty sure that he stands so that he can always be right in back of my wheelchair (yes, I am one of those people who always get a seat on a bus)(smile), because people tend to lean on the wheelchair or to balance the child they are holding in their arms on the back/arm of my wheelchair. If he stands right behind me, then that doesn't happen.

And I have had any number of people tell me how lucky I am to always have a seat on the bus. I just laugh and tell them that I would trade in a heartbeat even if it meant that I would never get a seat on a bus again for the rest of my life(smile).

 

[TigerLilly's Mom]

Nicely said Jacksonsmom - I couldn't agree with you more. I wouldn't hesitate to give up my seat for someone who needed it more.

This summer my family was on a bus to Sea World from Universal and it was packed. There was not too much of a choice to wait for another one - I think there were like three buses that left for the entire day. DH, myself, DS - 8, and DD - 5 had to stand along with many other people. I certainly didn't feel I was "subjecting" them to anything dangerous, and was fine that we had to stand. On one side of us were two teenaged girls who offered my DD a seat and on the other side was a gentleman who offered his seat to me so I could hold DD on my lap. And that was just two instances of people who were close to us - I'm sure there were many others who would have offered also. I think there are more lovely, well mannered people than not - and I try to focus on that. The man in particular, was very uncomfortable sitting while DD and myself were standing - he was just itching to get us to sit and asked several times. I declined both requests as I felt my kids were just fine to stand for few minutes - but I can't tell you how relieved I would have been if my DD had been sick or very tired. So, thank you to all those people (and there Moms and Dads) who have generousity and kindness and give without expecting anything in return.

 

[ckj]

Don't forget that Disney plays a big part too as the newer buses have *fewer* seats than the older ones. This allows the buses to have more guests standing while increasing the total capacity of the bus. At least they have a few straps hanging off the holding rails for those who can't each the tall rails.

 

[seashoreCM]

>>> people tend to lean on the wheelchair or to balance the child they are holding in their arms on the back/arm of my wheelchair.

Also bad manners.

How would they like it if your husband leaned on their shoulders or patted the child's head?

------

"You mean to say an able bodied not so old man can never sit on a crowded bus and, in the case of park closing would otherwise have to wait an hour until the entire crowd dissipated?"

------

One time I wanted to look out the front window (a subway train as opposed to a bus). I would have no problem standing except that everyone would expect me to "please move back". So I as one of the first people to board took one of the front seats.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

And I have had any number of people tell me how lucky I am to always have a seat on the bus. I just laugh and tell them that I would trade in a heartbeat even if it meant that I would never get a seat on a bus again for the rest of my life(smile).

and, speaking of bad manners and being insensitive. That remark is horrible.

 

[bearloch]

Is there a ploicy about standing on the buses bucause there were a couple time in Sept while we were there that the driver did not allow anyone to stand, they were far and few,


On the Sat even of our trip trying to leave the MK was a joke it took us after the fireworks 2 hrs and 45 min to get to our hotel ( ASM) I think they only had one bus running for all stars it was awful. the line was past all the other bus lines almost to the very beginning of the "bus pick up area"

 

[seashoreCM]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
and, speaking of bad manners and being insensitive. That remark is horrible.

Only the first half.

(I couldn't get the forum reply to quote the quote so I guess you will have to scroll up and find it, it is only a little ways up.)

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by bearloch
Is there a ploicy about standing on the buses bucause there were a couple time in Sept while we were there that the driver did not allow anyone to stand,

If a driver discovers that there is a loose handrail on the bus, then they might not allow anyone to stand... it's happened before on my bus. Otherwise, as long as everyone is behind the standee line, clear from the rear stair well, and has something to hold onto (preferably bolted to the bus), then all is clear.

 

[Jillpie]

I think we should seperate two issues here. The first are manners in general, not just at Disney. Should we give up our seat for an elderly lady or pregnant woman when they are stuck standing on a bus, train etc. Of course we should, and we should teach our children the same. Its just the kind thing that all of us should do, it goes a long way.
The second issue, should those same people that NEED to sit, wait for that next bus (that is not available in normal life outside of Disneyworld), the answer is yes. If the mother with two small children knows she needs to sit down with them, wait for the next bus. Its very simple.

Two completely different issues. Two easy answers. Use manners...always. Wait for the second bus...absolutely.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by seashoreCM
Only the first half.

(I couldn't get the forum reply to quote the quote so I guess you will have to scroll up and find it, it is only a little ways up.)

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

Oh, yes, only the first half, the response was excellent and much nicer than what mine would have been.

 

[clkelley]

I just wish the busses had a secure place to put strollers, etc. My hubby uses an ECV at WDW and it seems to be a magnet for folks to put there strollers all around it. He was banged badly on his bad knee (the need for the ECV) twice by strollers on Disney busses.

One was so bad, we had to go back to the resort immediately for him to take extra pain meds and lie down for awhile.

The ECV is supposed to help him get through Disney, not cause more pain. He had never been banged by a stroller before he started using the ECV.

Carol