A Lesson learned at AKL

[ducklite]

This is not legally stealing, as there was no intent to permanently deprive the guest of their property. It was negligence to the extreme, but not stealing. If it were to go to court, it would probably be in a civil action, rather than criminal, as the requirement for intent to commit a crime was not met.

(I am a lawyer. In the interest of full disclosure, I don't practice, but I am one)

And I agree with just seeing the statement that "a guest had their wall safe broken into and their wallet stolen at ASMU" does not even begin to describe what actually happened.

I'll have to agree, there was no intent by the hotel to steal from the guest, although I do wonder if a trespass law was violated? This was most definitely at the least severely negligent and morally wrong, and quite possibly a tort was committed, I think we agree on that.

Anne

 

[TDC Nala]

John,

The reason it was a theft was because they had no legal right to break into that safe that had been provided for guests vaulables without the guest present. The criminal act of burglary isn't remediated by the safe keeping of the spoils of the crime.

Actually, absent the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property, it is. This is a negligence matter, not a criminal one.

I would say a trespass law was not violated because the staff is legally entitled to enter a hotel room for business purposes. They entered the safe (also the property of the hotel) with the intent of retrieving the belongings of a previous guest, not of removing the current guest's belongings. They did so because they had to change the locks on the safes and could not secure the current guest's wallet in the room safe.

Where they went wrong was in removing an item from an occupied room. This was negligent but not criminal, as they did not remove the item intending to deprive its owner of possession. They also went wrong in not notifying the guest as to what happened to her wallet.

 

[ducklite]

Actually, absent the intent to permanently deprive the owner of the property, it is. This is a negligence matter, not a criminal one.

You are correct, and I jsut changed my post after looking up the statute. I am wondering if a trespass law was broken--not so much for entry into teh room, but for entry into the locked safe.

Anne

 

[TDC Nala]

yikes, double post

 

[TDC Nala]

Proper procedure, in my opinion, would have been to notify the current guest in order to set up a time when they could enter the room, with the guest present, to check for an item left in the room by a previous guest (no need to state what that item was or where it might be located).

This incident in no way would deter me from using the room safes. It's still the best way to secure valuables in your room. The best alternative is to always carry them on your person (in a secure way, not in back pockets or an easily snatched bag).

 

[MELSMICE]

It stinks that your cash was stolen, but you really should have used the safe (which I'm sure you realize in hindsight).

I would forget my head if it wasn't attached, however, when on vacation I ALWAYS use the safe. I also put something in there that I know I must take with me on the plane home & write myself a note so I remember to check the safe before leaving.

ETA: Are you sure the money didn't fall deep into some pocket in the suitcase? Maybe stuck in some corner?

 

[Questforthemouse]

Alright...you people are way too fast for me. I'm half way through responding for the second time and 4 more posts come in making what I have to say moot . That will teach me to try and keep up with someone (Anne) who has over 22,000 posts. I don't stand a chance do I?

Looks like we've worked things out. Anne, my disagreement with you was on the definition of burglary. I think we've come to see that Disney did not committ burglary and therefore did not steal the guest's wallet. As to whether or not they were criminally negligent I would think that is a definite possiblity.

Nonetheless, are we able to agree (however wrongly and possibly illegally Disney went about it) they were actually trying to protect both the former and current guest? And can we agree there isn't (atleast not currently that we know of) a ring of safe-crackers robbing resort guests? If there is, I'm guessing it's those shifty-eyed seniors . I just don't trust them .

Cheers everyone...

 

[ducklite]

Proper procedure, in my opinion, would have been to notify the current guest in order to set up a time when they could enter the room, with the guest present, to check for an item left in the room by a previous guest (no need to state what that item was or where it might be located).

This incident in no way would deter me from using the room safes. It's still the best way to secure valuables in your room. The best alternative is to always carry them on your person (in a secure way, not in back pockets or an easily snatched bag).

I agree with all of this 100%!

Anne

 

[TDC Nala]

Alright...you people are way too fast for me. I'm half way through responding for the second time and 4 more posts come in making what I have to say moot . That will teach me to try and keep up with someone (Anne) who has over 22,000 posts. I don't stand a chance do I?

Looks like we've worked things out. Anne, my disagreement with you was on the definition of burglary. I think we've come to see that Disney did not committ burglary and therefore did not steal the guest's wallet. As to whether or not they were criminally negligent I would think that is a definite possiblity.

As a lawyer I'd guess that nobody would go to jail for this, so "criminally negligent" probably isn't right. Civil remedies (compensation) would be enough, should this whole mess end up in court, and I would bet it won't since the guest got her wallet back, plus a bunch of comped stuff that she apparently had to raise a stink to get. I don't agree with the nature of the stink she arose, but the resort should not have beat around the bush before getting all the comped stuff together.

 

[Questforthemouse]

As a lawyer I'd guess that nobody would go to jail for this, so "criminally negligent" probably isn't right. Civil remedies (compensation) would be enough, should this whole mess end up in court, and I would bet it won't since the guest got her wallet back, plus a bunch of comped stuff that she apparently had to raise a stink to get. I don't agree with the nature of the stink she arose, but the resort should not have beat around the bush before getting all the comped stuff together.

Hi TDC Nala,

I agree with your previous post as to how Disney should have properly handled this in the first place. Let's hope they've learned and are training CMs and management as we speak.

I also agree that the guest "raised too much of a stink". I know this because of experience. I've done this myself (over-reacted, reacted emotionally) to certain situations. Unfortunately, it causes you to lose some objectivity and clarity. Two things you need in order to resolve problems to your satisfaction. I think I've learned this lesson but we'll see...

Disney definitely beat around the bush for too long. Once the original deed was done a message should have been left on the guest's phone briefly explaining the situation and then requesting their presence at the front desk to return the wallet and further explain. The wallet should have been returned promptly (not 2 hours later as stated) and they should have immediately been comped something for their troubles. Not likely that Disney would have admitted any wrong doing at this point (legal dept would frown on that) but they also likely would have resolved the issue and possibly won over a customer for life. Live and learn...