A "is this a good college" thread for all college searchers...

[NotUrsula]

The most well-respected undergrad archaeology programs on the East Coast are almost all at Ivies, with one exception: SUNY Stony Brook. Has she considered that one?

 

[clh2]

DS16 is also thinking actuarial science. You CAN just get a math degree for this as well so keep that in mind. Madison would be her "best" option for an actual Actuarial degree and a LOT of insurance companies recruit on campus there but none of the actuaries I know actually graduated from there so it isn't limited by any means.

St. Thomas is a nice campus right "in" St. Paul. It's pretty much a commuter school now, especially after freshman year. There are a lot of apartments/houses to rent NEAR campus but it isn't a place where kids live on campus all 4 years or anything like that. It is a well respected school though. Overall costs at St. Thomas are going to be closer to $43K, but then again, they have a HUGE endowment fund and give away lots of money too.

Is she leaning toward larger schools or doesn't it matter?

Golfgal - are you an actuary? Just curious...this whole business about getting a specific acuarial degree, vs a math degree just has me confused. As far as DD being in an apartment after her freshman year - as long as her grades are "appropriate" I wouldn't have an issue with that.
Thanks!
clh2

 

[golfgal]

Golfgal - are you an actuary? Just curious...this whole business about getting a specific acuarial degree, vs a math degree just has me confused. As far as DD being in an apartment after her freshman year - as long as her grades are "appropriate" I wouldn't have an issue with that.
Thanks!
clh2

No but I work in the industry. You can get a "degree" in actuarial science but there is actually a series of tests you take AFTER school that qualifies you to be an actuary. Companies will pay for the tests for you and give you work time to study for those tests which is why a math degree is fine.

Does your DD want to be on campus all 4 years though? Does she care what size campus it is? If not, she should look at Carleton in Northfield, MN, U of M, Morris, and St. Ben's/St. John's. That gives her one more VERY good public school and a couple private schools to investigate. Several of the actuaries I know graduated from CSB/SJU and Morris.

 

[clh2]

No but I work in the industry. You can get a "degree" in actuarial science but there is actually a series of tests you take AFTER school that qualifies you to be an actuary. Companies will pay for the tests for you and give you work time to study for those tests which is why a math degree is fine.

Does your DD want to be on campus all 4 years though? Does she care what size campus it is? If not, she should look at Carleton in Northfield, MN, U of M, Morris, and St. Ben's/St. John's. That gives her one more VERY good public school and a couple private schools to investigate. Several of the actuaries I know graduated from CSB/SJU and Morris.

Interesting questions you bring up. DD has wanted to go to UW-Madison since she was about 2. Honest. About the time she hit high school - I told DH - there is NO way she is going to UW Madison - it is far too easy. It is 90 minutes from home, easy access from Madison to the Milwaukee area, either by bus, or if we have to go get her, not a problem, or she can find a ride home etc. Last fall - she toured UofM, and got to spend the night in the dorm with her fav cousin, and then UofM became choice #1, Madison choice #2.

We are "forcing the issue" a little bit with the other schools, since we want her to make an informed choice - private vs public, small vs med vs large sized schools etc. I do not see Ohio State as a viable option - logistically it is much more difficult, and if DD wants a "big school" she can get that at UW-Madison, or at UofM.

I'll have to check into Carleton. One of my other nieces almost went there but made a last minute decision to go to St. Olaf...which was the perfect choice for her (she just graduated, and is now doing a masters/doc somewhere in Colorado in biochem something or other.)

Thanks for your input- I may PM you a specific actuary type of question (since you know some) but we are heading out in a few minutes.
clh2

 

[Green Tea]

The US News college rankings are out today online. Lots of helpful information.

 

[golfgal]

The US News college rankings are out today online. Lots of helpful information.

These "rankings" are helpful to a point but keep in mind that colleges pay big bucks to get listed in this "ranking".

 

[punkin]

These "rankings" are helpful to a point but keep in mind that colleges pay big bucks to get listed in this "ranking".

No, they don't. The numbers are manipulated IMO, but there are no "big bucks" changing hands.

 

[goofy4tink]

I'm pretty sure Julliard is way out of her league at this point. She wasn't looking at Maryland at all. Massachuttes (probably spelled wrong!) is where Dean is. It's pretty close to New York and my sister lives about an hour away in CT. I had not heard of Marymount so will look at that.

My dd, also a senior this year, thought about Marymount Manhattan...she wants a decent theater dept. But, it didn't make her short list...won't allow her to study in Manhattan..way too many distractions there for her.
Dean is about 30 mins away from us. It has a very good dance program! And, it's a nice little school. The area is pretty suburban, almost rural...dear heavens, my friends in Franklin will not like my saying that it's almost rural. There is a train station that gets you into Boston though.
Dean didn't make our short list due to it's theater offerings being lesser than what we were looking for.
We have looked at Suffolk (in Boston), Salem St University (Salem Mass), Emerson (in Boston), Bridgewater State U (Bridgewater Mass) and Roger Williams (Bristol RI).
So far, Bridgewater seems to have exactly what dd is looking for...communications major with theater concentration...perfect for her. It's away from home, about an hour. The campus is lovely, and the train to Boston runs right through the campus. And...it's affordable.

 

[golfgal]

No, they don't. The numbers are manipulated IMO, but there are no "big bucks" changing hands.

Yes, they do. One of the universities around here used to be ranked in that poll. There was an article in the paper about how they stopped PAYING to be included in the rankings because of budget cuts. It is simply paid advertising for the college--just like Under Armour or some other company buying an ad in the magazine.

 

[punkin]

Yes, they do. One of the universities around here used to be ranked in that poll. There was an article in the paper about how they stopped PAYING to be included in the rankings because of budget cuts. It is simply paid advertising for the college--just like Under Armour or some other company buying an ad in the magazine.

I will reiterate: you are wrong!

 

[jrmasm]

I will reiterate: you are wrong!

Psst, don't waste your time.

 

[golfgal]

I will reiterate: you are wrong!

Psst, don't waste your time.

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../09/12/information-for-college-officials-2012

U.S. News will be offering category-specific badges for the 2012 Best Colleges rankings. These badges will be available to the highly ranked colleges for promotional purposes. Wright's Media is handling all badge distribution and licensing for use in electronic media, print media, and reprints; a fee will be charged for all such uses

So, you pay a fee for the data collection process AND a fee if you want to use any of the ranking information in your literature--how is this not paying for the rankings????

 

[agnes!]

Ok, I know it's a long shot but anyone have any good suggestions for an archaeology program? DD has a pretty narrow list since there aren't a ton of programs. Her dream school is Wash. U. in St. Louis. She has some state schools on her list but I'd love for her to add 1-2 more private schools to her list since I think they can offer better merit aid.

Bryn Mawr has a good archaeology program...at least it did when I went there.

agnes!

 

[NotUrsula]

For bystanders who are interested, here is an article about the US News Survey (and other university ranking polls) in today's Chronicle of Higher Education: http://chronicle.com/article/How-to-Make-College-Rankings/128928/ (The Chronicle is a subscription trade weekly for academe; if you do not subscribe personally you may be able to reach the full text if you log in through a university or public library system journals account that you have access to.) The article is by M.N. Bastedo, who is on the Education faculty at the Univ. of Michigan.

Obviously, I cannot quote the entire article, but here are some snips:

...
This week college administrators will parse U.S. News & World Report'sannual college rankings with the careful attention of Talmudic scholars. Institutions at the top of the rankings will blithely declare the scores unimportant. Those even a few places below will say their placements do not recognize their institution's unique form of excellence. Faculty and administrators everywhere will decry U.S. News's influence.

Every spring, presidents, provosts, and admissions deans receive a survey fromthe magazine, asking them to rate all the institutions in their category from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). About half will respond—a percentage that has declined nearly every year. Then the scores are averaged and reported on the 1 to 5 scale. The reputation scores are one part of the rankings, along with other factors like graduation rates.A similar process is used for rating graduate schools. ...

...
There is also a clear conflict of interest here: College leaders are being asked to evaluate their competitors, and suspicious cases have been revealed. A copy of the University of Florida president J. Bernard Machen's survey, obtained by The Gainesville Sun in 2009, showed that he had rated his university equivalent to Harvard, Princeton, and Yale Universities, and none of the other Florida public universities even made it into the second category ("strong"). ...

...
To test that idea, I conducted two studies with Nicholas A. Bowman, an assistant professor of higher education at Bowling Green State University. In the first study, we gleaned all the U.S. News published data on colleges from 1989 to 2006, including the composite reputation scores. We wanted to see if people filling out the reputation survey were influenced by previous reputation scores and rankings. We found no evidence that reputation scores had any influence on future rankings—but previous rankings did. Thus, over time, the reputation score moved closer and closer to the overall ranking, making ranking and reputation scores less and less independent. Rankings became reputations. ...

THIS is why a lot of schools are no longer participating in the US News survey; the thing is slanted because of the personal bias of the respondents. No school has ever been asked to pay to be included in the survey, but for those schools that rank high in the results, there is a lot of pressure from the magazine to buy ad space in the survey issue, and to buy the rights to use the aforementioned "badge". Some do, and some don't, but those who do generally value the survey more for the exposure that the interest in the issue gives to them.

 

[punkin]

http://www.usnews.com/education/bes.../09/12/information-for-college-officials-2012

U.S. News will be offering category-specific badges for the 2012 Best Colleges rankings. These badges will be available to the highly ranked colleges for promotional purposes. Wright's Media is handling all badge distribution and licensing for use in electronic media, print media, and reprints; a fee will be charged for all such uses

So, you pay a fee for the data collection process AND a fee if you want to use any of the ranking information in your literature--how is this not paying for the rankings????

Read your own link. There is no charge for the ranking. If the particular college wants to use the "badge" it its own promotional literature, then they have to pay. The rankings themselves are independent.

 

[Green Tea]

These "rankings" are helpful to a point but keep in mind that colleges pay big bucks to get listed in this "ranking".

No they don't.

 

[Green Tea]

Yes, they do. One of the universities around here used to be ranked in that poll. There was an article in the paper about how they stopped PAYING to be included in the rankings because of budget cuts. It is simply paid advertising for the college--just like Under Armour or some other company buying an ad in the magazine.

The college may have eliminated a position which supplied all the data required, but schools are not paying for this. Trust me. I do not always agree with the methodology the surveys use, but the schools are not paying to be listed. You in one sentence libeled US News.

 

[punkin]

For bystanders who are interested, here is an article about the US News Survey (and other university ranking polls) in today's Chronicle of Higher Education: http://chronicle.com/article/How-to-Make-College-Rankings/128928/ (The Chronicle is a subscription trade weekly for academe; if you do not subscribe personally you may be able to reach the full text if you log in through a university or public library system journals account that you have access to.) The article is by M.N. Bastedo, who is on the Education faculty at the Univ. of Michigan.

Obviously, I cannot quote the entire article, but here are some snips:







THIS is why a lot of schools are no longer participating in the US News survey; the thing is slanted because of the personal bias of the respondents. No school has ever been asked to pay to be included in the rankings, but for those schools that rank high in the results, there is a lot of pressure from the magazine to buy ad space in the survey issue. Some do, and some don't, but those who do generally value the survey more for the exposure that the interest in the issue gives to them.

This is 100% true. Furthermore, the ranking numbers can be manipulated by the schools to some extent by emphasizing certain heavily weighted aspects. I do not think the rankings are that valuable on an individual college level (I do think they are very helpful in the general sense of where a college is viewed) but golfgal's assertion is just wrong. No one pays to be ranked.

 

[piglet too]

I don't see how paying someone to compile the data and then paying a fee to use the results in literature is the same as paying for the rankings. If the school does not want to pay the data fee, then sure, they won't be ranked. However, that does not mean that the schools who do pay for the data are not worthy of their rankings. And why would you not want to budget monies to be able to use the ranking in your literature?

This is how they say they make sure the rankings are accurate.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blo...curacy-of-the-best-colleges-rankings-and-data

 

[tar heel]

If this is the "evidence," golfgal is reading something that isn't there. They are selling a marketing package for AFTER the colleges have been chosen.

If colleges were actually paying for being on the US News list, people outside Minnesota would know and a high ranking wouldn't generate nearly the excitement that it does. The whole idea is ludricous. Do you think Harvard wants or needs to pay to be number 1?