A happy day for gays everywhere!

[DisneyKevin]

I truly appreciate what has been said subsequent to my last posts.

Agree or disagree....I'm glad we can do it within the guidelines set forth.

I think that shows steps towards understanding from both sides of the issue.

Thanks.

Kevin

 

[MD DisneyFreaks]

UrsulasShadow...why is your post box much wider than everyone else's??

...just curious

 

[wilde_oscar]

i was in the vatican once... does that make me a lasp Catholic or a reprobate?

 

[DisneyKevin]

i was in the vatican once... does that make me a lasp Catholic or a reprobate?

The word is Tourist, dear.

 

[The Disney Fanatic]

I truly appreciate what has been said subsequent to my last posts.

Agree or disagree....I'm glad we can do it within the guidelines set forth.

I think that shows steps towards understanding from both sides of the issue.

Thanks.

Kevin

You're cool with me Kev. The next time I'm At Disney World it's Ohana's on me! Or how about a Dole Whip?

 

[CelticBelle]

You're cool with me Kev. The next time I'm At Disney World it's Ohana's on me! Or how about a Dole Whip?

Eww! now I cant hear the words "dole whip" without thinking of bobs crisco whip! Yuk!

 

[CelticBelle]

I feel like I need to jump in here, because there seems to be a general tone of Religion versus supporters of gay rights. I just want to contradict that image.

I am a Christian. I am heavily involved in my church in many areas, teaching children's Sunday school, Council member, choir member, etc. I am not going to engage in a Bible debate because, first, this isn't the place for it, and, second, I would not be very good at it. As much as I've studied and read it, I am no expert nor an authority.

I do know God's grace is for everyone. Not just everyone who is just like me.

I also cannot imagine how granting same-gender couples the right to marry can cause a problem. Perhaps the sanctity of marraige and family is being threatened by society today. Perhaps not. But if it is, it is threatend by things like abuse, adultery, dishonesty, selfishness, greed....I could go on, but I'm getting depressed...

Anyway, "gay marriage" doesn't come to mind as a threat.

I do not seem to be alone in my opinion among members of my church. We happen to have a nice couple in our church choir who are both ladies. They are openly partners, share a last name, they are a family. They are actively involved in our church, and graciously volunteer their time to honor God. So we are grateful for them. To my knowledge no one has had any kind of issue or even made reference to a "lifestyle". They are just part of our church family and choir family.

I mention this only to show that not all church-going folks feel the need to judge others based upon their orientation.

I just wanted to thank you for your insights and presenting them in a respectful way to both sides. Its nice to be able to hear someones ideals in non-accusitive way. It makes it easier to sit back and think about things from all angles. Its hard sometimes when someone says something rash not to continue and use the same attitude back. So I thank you for bringing calm discussion back into the thread.

 

[zulemara]

The word is Tourist, dear.

just be sure not to be a touron...tourist+moron

 

[wilde_oscar]

that is a ship that sailed for me long ago... I love to be the ugly american, even when I am in NY, NY.

 

[kjetjl]

Its hard sometimes when someone says something rash not to continue and use the same attitude back.

 

[kjetjl]

That's exactly what I said in the college boards. Call it civil marriage, I don't care. In fact, the same would go for any heterosexual ceremonies performed in front of a judge. Civil marriage not spiritual marriage.

I'm glad I reread these posts. Your later comment about my belief infringing on your civil rights stuck out with me. I personally have no issue with the legal rights a civil union would give you. I do take issue mostly with the sanctity of marriage or spiritual marriage as you stated. Kind of like how the word lifestyle doesn't define the life you lead; the word marriage has a deeper meaning for me. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Disneybridein2k3]

UrsulasShadow...why is your post box much wider than everyone else's??

...just curious

Hello? she's SPECIAL!

 

[zulemara]

I'm glad I reread these posts. Your later comment about my belief infringing on your civil rights stuck out with me. I personally have no issue with the legal rights a civil union would give you. I do take issue mostly with the sanctity of marriage or spiritual marriage as you stated. Kind of like how the word lifestyle doesn't define the life you lead; the word marriage has a deeper meaning for me. I hope that makes sense.

I am one of the few who would be just fine with civil unions. Many do not want the separate but equal idea, but I feel it would be a first step in the right direction.

 

[Chuck S]

I am one of the few who would be just fine with civil unions. Many do not want the separate but equal idea, but I feel it would be a first step in the right direction.

I don't know, remember the UPS glitch in NJ? They were offering spousal health insurance to "married" couples, but were not allowing gay couples with civil unions the same benefit, claiming that the state, by calling one a "marriage" and the other a "civil union" made a distinction in status between them. Lambda Legal had to step in.

 

[zulemara]

I don't know, remember the UPS glitch in NJ? They were offering spousal health insurance to "married" couples, but were not allowing gay couples with civil unions the same benefit, claiming that the state, by calling one a "marriage" and the other a "civil union" made a distinction in status between them. Lambda Legal had to step in.

it is my belief that we need to start calling ALL marriages what they are. Married in front of a judge - civil marriage, married in a church - spiritual marriage. The problem right now is that people can go get "married" in vegas and there is no distinction between what they did and what a couple who got married in a church does.

I came from Catholic roots and despite my opinions on the origination of marriage, many people believe it was founded in religion. Fine, believe that, but then lets distinguish who is married spiritually and who isn't. If it's an issue of civil unions vs marriage then make it civil marriage versus marriage.


In my experience, those who are so adamantly against gay people being married are against it because either A) they do not believe two people of the same sex can love each other or B) they want to protect what they deem to be a "sanctity of marriage." Then there's the whole "institution of marriage" but I'm not even gonna go there with a 10 foot pole.


Either way it's really all quite silly. It's all terminology for the same thing - legal benefits by the state and federal governments. It's just about how you get it and who is being offended the most.

There will, for at least a few more generations, be people who think being gay is wrong and most of that belief will be founded in religion. It is no different than my 90 year old uncle believing Obama shouldn't be president because he'll give preferential treatment(I'm omitting slurs here)
Luckily for me and all gay people out there, eventually it will not become an issue of "are they morally wrong" but instead will be "why are we discriminating against them in the govt." Countless polls show over and over again that my generation(I am 23) has no problem with gay people, gay sex, or gay marriage. The numbers increase every year. It has already started and eventually my generation will be the one controlling the votes and when that day comes, equality will be provided.

For now I will go where I know I'm wanted and supported and that is why in just over 6 months, I will be permanently moving to Orlando to work for Disney. I do not walk through the parks alone with my bf when I am there. I feel as though I walk with every cast member behind us and supporting us.

Until then, we are still your family....your neighbors.....your friends...your coworkers....your cast members...and we arent going anywhere.

You(the people not in favor of our benefits) are more than welcome to come to Disney. It brings me pride that the money you spend will, in some way, be filtered through the checkbook of Disney and into the same sex benefits they provide.

 

[wishspirit]

Until then, we are still your family....your neighbors.....your friends...your coworkers....your cast members...and we arent going anywhere.

You(the people not in favor of our benefits) are more than welcome to come to Disney. It brings me pride that the money you spend will, in some way, be filtered through the checkbook of Disney and into the same sex benefits they provide.

Another reason why i want to work for the mouse! I may not be gay, but it doesn't hurt anyone by giving equal rights!

 

[VMK_Mouse]

Here here!

Why hate for no reason?

Plus from my knowledge of the Bible, i thought the whole message was about Love? Maybe im just getting the wrong end of the stick, but isn't Christianity about being nice to other people?

Not trying to be offensive, i just really dont understand what is the overridding message, Tolerance or Persecution?

Hi wishsprit,

Your comments are not offensive at all.

Maybe sometimes there is a fine line between hate and disagreement. While a person may not agree that gay couples are bound in marriage as it was created I would venture to say that many of those same people would never hate anybody who does or the people that are gay. I hope that you do not feel that disagreeing with choices is the same as hate.

As for the intent of the Bible and Christianity, it is not about being nice to people. That is only a small part of it, but Christians are still as human in their nature as the non-Christian. We refer to it as a flesh weakness. Biblical teaching and Christianity (without going into too much detail) is the Word of God. It is an instuction book to help the Christian in our walk with the Lord. It is documented prophecy concerning the Messiah as well as promises that God has made to the entire world.

I hope that makes more sense what the Christian believes about Biblical teaching.

Generally speaking: My comments above are not to debate if one believes in the Bible or God, but to address wishspirit's question.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

UrsulasShadow...why is your post box much wider than everyone else's??

...just curious

Hello? she's SPECIAL!

Y'know, I was going to say that...but I'm so modest.

 

[kjetjl]

it is my belief that we need to start calling ALL marriages what they are. Married in front of a judge - civil marriage, married in a church - spiritual marriage. The problem right now is that people can go get "married" in vegas and there is no distinction between what they did and what a couple who got married in a church does.

Either way it's really all quite silly. It's all terminology for the same thing - legal benefits by the state and federal governments. It's just about how you get it and who is being offended the most.



.

I very much agree that each of those "marriages" mean completely different things. I daresay, it does seem hypocritical at times.

I don't know about terminology being silly.....words can be powerful! I believe you were one who felt lifestyle wasn't an appropriate word to use in this discussion. I think there are words like that for a lot of people in a lot of different situations.

I am very much enjoying reading your opinions on things.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Maybe sometimes there is a fine line between hate and disagreement. While a person may not agree that gay couples are bound in marriage as it was created I would venture to say that many of those same people would never hate anybody who does or the people that are gay. I hope that you do not feel that disagreeing with choices is the same as hate.

I really am not trying to split semantic hairs here.....and while there is a definite difference between diagreement and hate....we arent just talking about disagreement. What we are really talking about is powerful disagreement leading to denial of equality.

I disagree with thong bathing suits. I would veture to guess that if I took a poll, the majority of people would disagree with thong bathing suits (I know ...there are exceptions) but all of our disagreeing doesnt lead to the denial of your right to proudly wear you thong.

The reason our disagreement doesnt get us anywhere is that we have no political clout. The thong haters of the world do not help win or lose presdential elections so our disagreement is for naught.

I'm pretty sure that we are never going to able to convince the "disagree ers" that we dont have an agenda other than equality, but I have to agree with Zulemara.....a change is gonna come. (Thanks Sam Cooke)

Things have changed radically since I was a kid. There are gay folks on daytime TV and they are kissing...and whats even better....they arent dressed as women, mincing queens or dressed in leather from head to toe. They look like the other characters on TV. Thats a huge step forward.

Sooner or later....it's going to happen...whether you disagree or not.

In the near future, you might have a woman or a man of color running this country. And who knows....after that, I might be able to make a legal commitment to the person I choose to share my life with.

I'm really ok with you not agreeing with my choices. I've lived with that my whole life. I just hope that by disagreeing, you dont have the chance to deny that equality.

Kevin