a family of eight who hates forced 18% tip

[seven dwarfs]

Is there any others that hate this? I have six children under the age of 7. I notice (not just at Disney) that service is (most of the time) awful. Plus, If you are going to force me to pay this amount why not force it on a table of two. Seems unfair to me. Can I add that the times we have the best service are the times we are not charged that amount. And we always tip 20% or more for outstanding service. I feel like a tip should be my choice on the amount and no one should tell me how much that should be.

 

[disneykidz4]

Is there any others that hate this? I have six children under the age of 7. I notice (not just at Disney) that service is (most of the time) awful. Plus, If you are going to force me to pay this amount why not force it on a table of two. Seems unfair to me. Can I add that the times we have the best service are the times we are not charged that amount. And we always tip 20% or more for outstanding service. I feel like a tip should be my choice on the amount and no one should tell me how much that should be.

I don't like to be forced either (poor service really irritates me!), but in alot of restaurants we eat at, tip and gratuity are included in the total when we are handed the check and it's usually always 20%. We have six people in our family and alot of places do this. I think it is becoming the norm. Aside from this, if you purchase the DDP, you will probably be happy with your future trips to Disney. For 2008, the tip(and the appetizer) is no longer included with the plan, so you will have to pay it (and figure it out!) yourself. . . .

 

[kaytieeldr]

Yes, it's a relatively standard practice throughout the restaurant industry. Apparently, large parties are less likely to tip, or tip 'correctly', than smaller parties. Ever go out with a group of people and try splitting the check? It seems there's never enough money to cover the check, never mind a tip.
"Oh, I thought you left the tip!"
"No, I thought you did!"
"Hey, wasn't it Mikey's turn?"

Now, I realize that doesn't happen with a lot of families, but I don't think the restaurants can, or want to, differentiate based on party componnents - e.g., not have one rule for a business lunch and a different one for a family with small kids.

PLUS!!! Chances are the cash register is programmed to automatically include the tip when six entrees are rung in on a single bill.

If service legitimately isn't deserving of the indicated tip, see the manager before making payment.

 

[seven dwarfs]

When I go out with my group of friends we have the opposite problem. We have too much money for the tip and if the service is good we will leave the extra money. I have not had the problem of not having enough tip money. Of course that is just my experience. I am sure it must be upsetting for a good server to not get a well deserved tip.

I have talked to the manager before (it was at Trails End) but to be honest, it is a pain in the butt. And takes time. Most of the time I just want to get out of there. I just feel like I should not have to pay 18%-20% just because I have six kids unless I want too. I am sure if this was forced for everyone, including tables of two, more people would have a fit and this 'new standard' would not last. I have watched servers treat others around us different and they are a smaller party. I am made to feel that because the tip is decided then why bother. Again, We have had times when the server has not included the tip and service was outstanding and we compensate him/her well. I can tell by the service weather or not the percentage will be added to my final bill. Just frustrating.

 

[Uncleromulus]

My experience with large party dining is almost exactly as kaytieeldr describes it. Everyone is relying on the other person to supply the correct tip. Most folks add an extra dollar or so and figure it's enough.
A couple of servers I know HATE to wait on these tables. Aside from all the confusion and screams for "more bread" or "more water", the average tip (where they do not automatically add the tip), usually is about 10% of the check. And sometimes less.
Family dining with kids is, of course, a bit different--

 

[Quinn222]

As has been stated more often than not large parties under tip and wait staff wants no part of them unless the tip is guaranteed to be correct. If the service is under par and you don't think the tip is deserved address it when it happens during the meal with the manager. Otherwise look at it as saving you the trouble of figuring the tip.

 

[Claymax]

As a few have quite correctly stated, it is primarily due to people not tipping correctly. Remember, wait staff are taxed on the assumption that their base pay, plus tips will equal minimum wage. When they get stiffed, they are paying taxes out of their other earnings.

The sad truth is that while many people SAY they tip x%, many rarely do. I waited table for 3 years while in college so unfortunately, I know from experience. Forget a draft, I say everyone should have to work retail for 2 years as a civic duty. Waiters can always spot previous waiters, they treat them like normal people instead of servants.

The OP mentions that she wants to tip only what she feels is due. Unfortunately there are too many variables for this logic. The waiter is not in control of the customers'; feelings, how their day went, the cooks, management, how your kids are behaving, weather or any of the myriad of other things that could affect how someone deems their meal went.

No offense to the OP, but a table with 6 kids under the age of 7 is pretty much every waiter's worst nightmare. (No one ordering entrees, special orders for everyone and the unholy mess that many parents feel it is their right to leave behind.) Believe me, they are earning their measly 15%! Ask any waiter which they would rather wait on, a table of two risking a tip of whatever amount, or a table of 8 with 6 kids under the age of 7 with a lock on 15%. Not many, if any, will pick the 8-top full of kiddos.

 

[dqpowell]

This has happened to me before -- getting poor service and a check that includes a "mandatory" tip because of a policy covering groups of 6 or more. The honest truth is that you do not have to accept it. As others have said, speak to a manager. Explain politely that you would have been happy to pay an 18 or 20% tip if the service had merited such a tip, but that you will not pay it for the service you received that day. They cannot remove money from your pocket against your will and they cannot charge an amount to your credit card that you haven't approved. Tell the manager what you're willing to pay for the service received. Be fair in your assessment and then pay that amount. I have had to do this twice before. One time I paid a 10% tip (on a bill that included a "mandatory" 18% tip) and another time I paid no tip at all. The latter case was one of the worst experiences I've ever had in a restaurant. We had to wait almost 30 minutes for the wait staff to bring us water and take our orders; three of the seven meals were incorrectly prepared due to the wait staff not writing down the orders correctly; my aunt was served a meal that had bread crumbs sprinkled on top it after explaining she had Celiac's disease and could not consume any wheat at all -- at this, the waitress brought her plate into the kitchen, and returned 1 minute later with what was obviously the same exact plate with scrape marks on the top of the food where she had attempted to scrape the bread crumbs away; the wait staff failed to clear away used plates during our meal; and we had to repeatedly flag down wait staff for things because nobody voluntarily stopped by the table every once in a while to see how things were going or if we needed drink refills, etc.

The manager tried to give me the "restaurant policy" spiel about the mandatory 18% tip, and that there was nothing he could do about it. I told him that we would not be leaving a tip that night and that he'd somehow have to work out the accounting himself.

We paid in cash, accurate to the penny for the total before tip, and that was all.

BTW, just to be clear, this was not at a Disney restaurant.

David

 

[Dorisk3]

I agree that a person should be allowed to tip what he or she wants to and not be "billed" for a tip. That said however, you can't really compare a table for 2 to a table for 8- figure that is 4 times the amount of plates carried, orders taken, and dishes cleared. I think Disney does it so the servers don't get stiffed on their tips by large parties that don't like the 15-20 percent of that final number on their bill and end up leaving less.

 

[dqpowell]

As a few have quite correctly stated, it is primarily due to people not tipping correctly.

Then it should be applied to everybody, not just 8-tops or whatever. There is a very good chance that I will tip more than 15 or 18% if the decision is left up to me. I have been known to tip more than 30% on some meals for outstanding service. But if the restaurant tacks a "mandatory" gratuity onto the bill, that's all I'm going to pay, no matter how good the service was. And as I explained in my previous post, I will not even pay that much if the service was sub-par.

Remember, wait staff are taxed on the assumption that their base pay, plus tips will equal minimum wage. When they get stiffed, they are paying taxes out of their other earnings.

Wait staff are not taxed on hypothetical earnings. They are taxed on actual earnings, if the restaurant does proper accounting of tips. If they don't, that's not my problem. All the wait staff need do to earn a fair tip from me is provide proper service.

David

 

[disneymom06]

Is there any others that hate this? I have six children under the age of 7. I notice (not just at Disney) that service is (most of the time) awful. Plus, If you are going to force me to pay this amount why not force it on a table of two. Seems unfair to me. Can I add that the times we have the best service are the times we are not charged that amount. And we always tip 20% or more for outstanding service. I feel like a tip should be my choice on the amount and no one should tell me how much that should be.

We are a family of six and I am not happy with the forced 18% that will now be applied to my bill. A tip should not be mandatory especially when the service is poor. We tip at least 20%, usually 25%, because I appreciate the fact that I don't have to cook, or wait the table, I know how much work is required for the wait staff. But when We get ignored ,one example, have to ask three times to refill glasses, then the tip will reflect the fact of poor service. Now, I feel that we have no control of the situation, unless I want to discuss the problem with a manager.

 

[Lewisc]

A large table that stiffs the server has a greater impact on the waiters tips for the night then a small table.

Any customer, particularly a large table, shouldn't hesitate to flag any passing staff member and ask for a manager if there is an issue with service.

 

[Kami]

OP- You state that most of the time service is awful?? That seems very harsh! It seems like you are going into the restaurant with a negative attitude about the server. It isn't easy to wait on a family with many kids. I agree with the person that posted about the mess that many families feel is ok to leave behind. As a mom, I do my best to clean up around my kids when we are eating out. I know some that feel it is ok for their child to throw large amounts of food on the ground or pour salt on the table. If the wait staff is so bad, complain, however you can't fault the waitstaff for everything. Some things are out of their control. I never understand how some people that go out to eat are so miserable during their meal. You are eating out, getting waited on: enjoy it! I know that it isn't the customers job to make up the waitstaffs' pay, but we all know what they make and how hard many of them work. I never get insulted if the tip is added on and almost always leave extra. Sorry, but your stated about service usually being awful is pretty insulting to all of the hard working waitstaff out there! There is always take out!

 

[MickeyNicki]

A friend of mine went to dinner with his mom, wife, 8 and 10 year old kids and 7 month old....the waiter added 18% tip on the bill. My friend questioned it and the waiter said that is common on parties of 6 or more, it is printed on the menu. Ok fine but the baby did not eat anything...the waiter said I had to bring you a high chair and clean up the cheerios on the floor when you leave. Never heard of anything like that before.

 

[disneybride96]

Forget a draft, I say everyone should have to work retail for 2 years as a civic duty.

My thoughts exactly! Retail - toughest job with the least respect!

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

Then it should be applied to everybody, not just 8-tops or whatever. There is a very good chance that I will tip more than 15 or 18% if the decision is left up to me. I have been known to tip more than 30% on some meals for outstanding service. But if the restaurant tacks a "mandatory" gratuity onto the bill, that's all I'm going to pay, no matter how good the service was. And as I explained in my previous post, I will not even pay that much if the service was sub-par. Wait staff are not taxed on hypothetical earnings. They are taxed on actual earnings, if the restaurant does proper accounting of tips. If they don't, that's not my problem. All the wait staff need do to earn a fair tip from me is provide proper service.

David

Why not tip what you would have anyway, why punish a server for a policy they cannot control(management/owners policy)

When I worked in a restaraunt in the 80's servers were taxed on 8% of there sales, in others words, the IRS assumed their income was 8% of their total sales, unless they reported more income Standard tips then were between 10 and 15%, so when a server was stiffed(we had a lot a business men from overseas, who didn't know about tipping) they were stilled assumed to have made that 8%

 

[mom2my3kids]

We went to a restaurant last weekend with a big party of baseball players and family around 25 of us. The Server was wonderful and they only added 15% onto the bill, I gave a extra 5.00 myself and I know other parts of the party gave more money. Just because its added does not mean you will get bad service, now if you get HORRIBLE service complain to the manger but I am sure most times the service will be good.

 

[Claymax]

Then it should be applied to everybody, not just 8-tops or whatever. There is a very good chance that I will tip more than 15 or 18% if the decision is left up to me. I have been known to tip more than 30% on some meals for outstanding service. But if the restaurant tacks a "mandatory" gratuity onto the bill, that's all I'm going to pay, no matter how good the service was. And as I explained in my previous post, I will not even pay that much if the service was sub-par. Wait staff are not taxed on hypothetical earnings. They are taxed on actual earnings, if the restaurant does proper accounting of tips. If they don't, that's not my problem. All the wait staff need do to earn a fair tip from me is provide proper service.

David

Key words here David, "There is a very good CHANCE that I will tip more than 15-18%...." Waiters can't pay the bills on chancing how you feel that day.

Also your comment, "that's not my problem...", well that pretty much sums it up doesn't it? Not my problem solves it all. Fact is they ARE taxed on what they are supposed to earn. Wait staff don't run the restaurant and certainly don't have a say in the accounting, so how is it their problem? Not my problem is not an excuse. The next step in these arguments is usually, 'Well they don't have to work there."

And why does a mandatory gratuity keep you from rewarding great service? It's not the server's policy, but you're going to not tip them as well because of it? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.


David, I didn't mean to make this personal, so please forgive me is it seems that way. It is a matter near and dear to my heart. Thanks for posting your feelings on this matter.

 

[Eeyore2003]

Maybe if tips are going to be mandatory, restaurant owners should pay their staff a decent wage, food prices should reflect accordingly and then waiters cannot complain about being stiffed and people would not have to complain about injustice or try to figure out what to tip. Maybe we've come to that point. Automatically adding a tip percentage kind of defeats the purpose of a "tip", at this point it's just kind of playing a little game.

I always tip 20% no matter what, food, nails, hair, whatever. The new DDE policy, if this is true, will save me money. If I'm being told what to tip, I'm certainly not going to tip more.

 

[eva]

Is there any others that hate this? I have six children under the age of 7. I notice (not just at Disney) that service is (most of the time) awful. Plus, If you are going to force me to pay this amount why not force it on a table of two. Seems unfair to me. Can I add that the times we have the best service are the times we are not charged that amount. And we always tip 20% or more for outstanding service. I feel like a tip should be my choice on the amount and no one should tell me how much that should be.

I tend to agree with Kami here. I have been going to WDW at least every year for the last 10 years. And our service most of the time is wonderful. When we do hit a bad night it is usually because the restaurant is totally packed, like on a holiday or during the summer. My DH and I normally have great service, whether at WDW or not. There's got to be a reason for that.