A Disneyland future themed resort in Texas?

[Douglas Dubh]

It really doesn't matter. Disney is not going to build another domestic park. The infrastructure costs would be prohibitive. WDW has plenty of land for another park and the overhead is already established with park management, hotel management, transit management and more, all of which would need to be recreated as well as the physical infrastructure of a new park. And new parks need to open with enough attractions to make it a stand alone experience. An added park at WDW does not need to be a full day experience. The openings of, at the time MGM, and AK show that Disney knows additive parks can be done with fewer attractions and then built over time. A new stand alone would be prohibitively expensive to replicate a full-day park, and opening a half day park between Houston and San Antonio has no business case in the Disney method.

There are a lot of good arguments for building a fifth gate at WDW, but there’s as many against it and for building a new resort elsewhere. No one can say for sure what will happen down the road.

 

[jknezek]

There are a lot of good arguments for building a fifth gate at WDW, but there’s as many against it and for building a new resort elsewhere. No one can say for sure what will happen down the road.

I'm not sure I know of a good reason to build a new one somewhere else other than people want one closer to them, but I guess that's mainly in the eye of the beholder.

You are looking at spending 10 billion dollars on a single stand alone park that at best opens with 3 spinner/carousels, 4 dark rides, 2 family coasters, 2 water rides, and a simulator plus a half dozen shows and some themed building and characters. Add an incredibly expensive hotel, because Disney would absolutely start with the high roller hotel first, just doesn't seem like a good idea.

And yes, it would cost $8-$10 billion. I described Shanghai, which was the most experience packed park Disney has opened since probably the Japan parks which, like Shanghai, were not fully financed by Disney. Shanghai cost over $5 billion and building anything in the U.S. is at least twice as expensive in terms of labor and materials. See Star Wars Lands which, despite saving money being clones are costing over $1 billion each and include 2 rides and a lot of streetmosphere or Pandora which was over $500 million and was a simulator, a short dark ride, and a lot of streetmosphere. Plus Disney, and partners, received all kinds of support from China for building that park, even more than Texas would bend over to give out.

Look at the Disney financed parks that have opened, MGM (now DHS), AK, DCA and none opened with anywhere near as many experiences. In fact, none of them have as many experiences now, 20-30+ years later, as Shanghai opened with.

 

[Chuck S]

I'm not sure I know of a good reason to build a new one somewhere else other than people want one closer to them, but I guess that's mainly in the eye of the beholder.

You are looking at spending 10 billion dollars on a single stand alone park that at best opens with 3 spinner/carousels, 4 dark rides, 2 family coasters, 2 water rides, and a simulator plus a half dozen shows and some themed building and characters. Add an incredibly expensive hotel, because Disney would absolutely start with the high roller hotel first, just doesn't seem like a good idea.

And yes, it would cost $8-$10 billion. I described Shanghai, which was the most experience packed park Disney has opened since probably the Japan parks which, like Shanghai, were not fully financed by Disney. Shanghai cost over $5 billion and building anything in the U.S. is at least twice as expensive in terms of labor and materials. See Star Wars Lands which, despite saving money being clones are costing over $1 billion each and include 2 rides and a lot of streetmosphere or Pandora which was over $500 million and was a simulator, a short dark ride, and a lot of streetmosphere. Plus Disney, and partners, received all kinds of support from China for building that park, even more than Texas would bend over to give out.

Look at the Disney financed parks that have opened, MGM (now DHS), AK, DCA and none opened with anywhere near as many experiences. In fact, none of them have as many experiences now, 20-30+ years later, as Shanghai opened with.

And it isn't just what the public sees, either. All the backstage support facilities for fireworks/night shows, maintenance bays, security, warehousing, and so forth. The Hotel would likely have a DVC component, so that at least could be nearly immediate income when sales begin.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

I'm not sure I know of a good reason to build a new one somewhere else other than people want one closer to them, but I guess that's mainly in the eye of the beholder.

I outlined some earlier, and I’m not arguing for one closer to me since I now live in Winter Garden.

 

[Simba's Mom]

LOL, I live in Texas and about 5 years ago, I was shopping in the local HEB, wearing a Disney World shirt. Someone excitedly stopped me to tell me that her sister, who lives up in Houston (we live 350 miles south), was positive that Disney was building a theme park there. I'm still waiting. Of course, I could always say that maybe that's why all the families are coming across the border around here-they want to go to Texas Disney!!

 

[LAS2AMS]

Two problems. Disneyland is in Anaheim, and it wasnt a tourist destination until DL, and San Antonio is absolutely a tourist destination, whether you believe it to be or not.

The definition of "tourism" is intentionally vague. Last year, San Antonio reported over $15B in tourist spending, whereas Cleveland - yes, Cleveland - reported nearly $10B. For both cities, the majority of visitors were locals who didn't every stay overnight.

And Disneyland was built primarily as a one-day excursion for Los Angeles locals; the location in Anaheim was chosen for cost and location (then a short drive down the newly opened 5 for locals). Disneyland continues to serve primarily the Southern California market today, unlike its counterpart in Florida, which seeks to attract travelers worldwide.

 

[Bearval]

This hoax re-surfaces regularly. Typically its started by some land speculator looking to boost the value of their property.

Never gonna happen. It would just compete with WDW in Florida.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Never gonna happen. It would just compete with WDW in Florida.

If Disney thought like that, they’d still only have one park.

 

[jknezek]

If Disney thought like that, they’d still only have one park.

That's.... kind of silly. WDW was opened in a different age and for a different purpose. Walt himself saw the perils of being hemmed in to DL and bought the land in FL in what came to be a "blessing of size." Plus the late 60s and early 70s were a different age of travel. It was expensive to fly, and not really something the average vacationer did. So having parks on both coasts made sense. The last serious attempt at building a new domestic Disney park was in VA or reusing the theme when buying Knott's Berry Farm in CA. Both happened in the early to mid 90s. In the last 25 years, it's been a dead issue.

 

[Q-man]

Never gonna happen. It would just compete with WDW in Florida.

No one is saying build another WDW. Build an MK and then for a second gate you could have a MCU centric thrill ride park. That way you're not duplicating WDW and can do something big with the Marvel rights west of the Mississippi.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

That's.... kind of silly.

Not any sillier than to what I was responding.

 

[Bearval]

If Disney thought like that, they’d still only have one park.

In the US disneyworld and Disneyland are two entirely different parks
Disneyland is more of a regional park and disneyworld is more of a destination park where people will travel overseas to visit.

 

[jkh36619]

I would be for a 3rd park over a 5th gate but I don't see either happening anytime soon. Disney also has to keep economic down turns in consideration.

 

[Q-man]

I would be for a 3rd park over a 5th gate but I don't see either happening anytime soon. Disney also has to keep economic down turns in consideration.

Wouldn't a park that ~25 million people are within a 6-7 hour drive to be beneficial in an economic downturn?

 

[Bearval]

Wouldn't a park that ~25 million people are within a 6-7 hour drive to be beneficial in an economic downturn?

No, it wouldn’t. Disneyworld had to offer a lot of incentives to get people to go during the last one down turn and the parks were still pretty empty compared to today.

 

[LAS2AMS]

The problem is that Disney is a public company and has an obligation to its shareholders to maximize its ROI (return on investment). It's extremely unlikely a new domestic Disney resort would yield the a larger ROI than a fifth theme park at WDW or even a third at DL. The biggest challenge in a Texas MK is that would be that it'd serve as a substitute vacation for millions of people. Consider DL; a 2007 OC Register article discussed how CA had the largest difference in splits between visitors to Central and South Florida, and one of the lowest per capita visitor counts to Central Florida. The conclusion was that even though Disney and Universal offered larger, more elaborate resorts in Florida, people from CA were satisfied with the (limited) local options. Unquestionably, Disney is going to get some of that drawback from TX; people who may have previously traveled to WDW annually for a week now may be satisfied with a weekend or two at TX, with plans to attend WDW every 3 years. Other people throughout the Central States may be lured by lower cost at TX -- either direct (park tickets,especially off season) or indirect (cost of transpiration, since the lion's share travel by air status quo).

Ultimately, a fifth theme park keeps people in WDW longer, keeps people spending larger amounts of money longer (remember, comparable food and entertainment is cheaper at DL compared to WDW), gives Disney opportunities to sell Vacation Club, etc.

Wouldn't a park that ~25 million people are within a 6-7 hour drive to be beneficial in an economic downturn?

It'd be a liability during a downturn. They'd have to heavily discount tickets, and given that people seek out lower cost substitutes during downturns, this would mean far fewer trips to WDW.

 

[Aurora0427]

I kind of doubt it. While there are vast areas South and West of San Antonio that could be large enough for Disney, it is doubtful the State Legislature and the counties involved would be easily swayed to give that much control over to any corporation, especially when you consider the horrible death at the Schlitterbahn water park in Kansas a year or so ago. Schlitterbahn is headquartered in New Braunfels and recently sold their original park in New Braunfels and their Corpus Christi park to Cedar Fair because of pending lawsuits from those that were injured and the unfortunate death of the 10 year old boy, due to an unsafe design of a high speed water raft slide. All the signs were there, the park built and opened the ride even though the engineers a told them it would be unsafe.

Native Texan here and I respectfully disagree. Texas is an extremely business friendly state, and our legislature would bend over backwards to get Disney and the money it would bring. I just drove through Texas on the way to California, and there’s tons of land.

Furthermore, I don’t get the argument that you only build a park where people already vacation. If you build it, they will come, and you’ll get people from Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Mexico and that’s just the states within driving distance.

There are lots of reasons this may never happen, but not for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[Chuck S]

Native Texan here and I respectfully disagree. Texas is an extremely business friendly state, and our legislature would bend over backwards to get Disney and the money it would bring. I just drove through Texas on the way to California, and there’s tons of land.

Furthermore, I don’t get the argument that you only build a park where people already vacation. If you build it, they will come, and you’ll get people from Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Mexico and that’s just the states within driving distance.

There are lots of reasons this may never happen, but not for the reasons mentioned above.

Except that all the states you mention, a lot of people already go to DIsneyland or Walt Disney World, that would dilute the customer base for those parks and resorts. hey would not want to take away customers they are already getting just to invest a $Billion + in a new park. I've lived near San Antonio for nearly 45 years, and drove regularly. 2x a year to WDW. I still average two trips a year, only now I usually fly. Usually June and either Dec., Jan., or Feb.

I haven't been to Fiesta Texas in San Antonio in years, in fact, I haven't been since it became a Six Flags, but I do plan to go again later this summer or early fall, as soon as I can coordinate schedules with friends that have a couple of 10 year olds. We're going to the Texas Ranger Museum and the Mammoth National Monument near Waco and then on to the Dallas Zoo, this weekend.

 

[Aurora0427]

Except that all the states you mention, a lot of people already go to DIsneyland or Walt Disney World, that would dilute the customer base for those parks and resorts. hey would not want to take away customers they are already getting just to invest a $Billion + in a new park. I've lived near San Antonio for nearly 45 years, and drove regularly. 2x a year to WDW. I still average two trips a year, only now I usually fly. Usually June and either Dec., Jan., or Feb.
.

Yes. This is a valid reason for not building a park In Texas. But that’s not what I was addressing.

 

[mamapenguin]

Interesting discussion...
San Antonio-Houston could be developed as a major vacation destination with Disney if done right. Major airports and other attractions already in place. Disney cruises out of Galveston already as well. Challenge with that is the distance from SA to Galveston. Houston definitely shorter distance wise to Galveston port (about same as Orlando to Port Canaveral), with about the same horrible traffic as Orlando LOL. And Houston has 2 airports to fly into....Plus you do have the gulf coast as well for beachy vacations...

Isn’t Fiesta Texas’s seasonally operated park? Disney doesn’t do seasonal. That being said, they don’t need a 5th gate in Florida, It’s a cash cow as is.