A buddy of mine is being sued by a

Oh my gosh...Welcome!..so glad to see you here. I take it your website, like mine, shows you where the hits are coming from?

You and I have chatted over the years and you have always been right up front. I sure appreciate the work you have done! You have helped a lot of people, that's for sure.

MAH4546, I find that remark interesting since I have had a number of lawyers compliment me on the web site. I have not yet had an attorney point out errors. Perhaps, since you "do" trademark/copyright law, you could enlighten me as to to what specifically on the web site you object? And you might also tell us what do you "do" concerning trademark/copyright law?

The trademark/copyright section of the web site covers thousands of pages and it is possible that I have gotten something wrong but I cannot take corrective action when someone anonymously posts vague attacks. And since you "do" trademark/copyright in the 9th Circus (the 9th Circuit is overturned twice as often by the Supreme Court as any other Circuit) it might be entertaining to hear your "professional" opinion.

Unlike my detractors, I do not post anonymously. My name, address and contact information is readily available on my web site for all to see.
 
I get attacked on various boards by people with agendas. However, when I ask them to support their statements with facts, quotes and/or court decisions, I never hear back from them again.

One poster on Etsy did show me where I had missed something concerning copyright registrations and I then modified the information I have posted. Other than that, I have not received anything. It is amazing the people who make claims and then run and hide when asked for some simple verification.

I am not a lawyer nor have I ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express but I have watched every episode of Boston legal. When I was sued by M&M/Mars in 2002 over the use of their licensed fabrics, every lawyer I contacted told me to fold and throw myself on their mercy. When I fought back, all M&M/Mars wanted to do was settle. Disney was next and they folded so fast I was caught off guard. I have lost not a single federal case on the issues. And my husband, Mr Tabberone, and I represented ourselves. What does that tell you about these billion dollar companies and their corporate lawyers? They had the money to fight it but were afraid they would lose.
 
The holding of L'Anza, which is likely to soon undergo Supreme Court review and might be overturned, is restricted to grey market imports. It says simply that a copyright holder that makes good for exports cannot then restrict re-import of goods to the United States. It does not apply to good that are not made for export. Simple as that.

The poorly written website simply takes dicta from a case and makes pretend dicta is the law, when its not.

The reason companies often settle - and when I did trademark transaction law (I now work at a movie studio and do more proactive work) we almost always settled - is because we actually don't care that much. We are required by United States law to zealously defend our copyrights and trademarks, or we lose them. We have to send cease and desist letters and threaten to sue, even to a small mom and pop operation that is of no harm to us. We only chase after it when it is a real problem that affects the bottom line - i.e. a large counterfeit ring. It is especially relevant with trademarks (which overlaps a lot with copyright, especially when we are dealing with graphic characters), because failure to protect a trademark means that the trademark is genericized and falls into the public domain. Aspirin, thermos and elevator were all once brandnames, but because the companies failed to protect them, they are no longer.

It has nothing to do with the fact that we would lose in court. We would win, because trademark and copyright law is on the side of big corporations. There's just no real point in chasing after a small mom/pop operation - its bad press and it does little to hurt business. We couldn't care less that grandma is selling stitchings on eBay and pulling in $1k in profits a year, but U.S. law requires that we defend against it. And once we send that C&D letter and settle, we did our part to protect our trademarks and copyrights, and we don't risk losing anything with respect to that now settled situation.
 
I get attacked on various boards by people with agendas. However, when I ask them to support their statements with facts, quotes and/or court decisions, I never hear back from them again.

One poster on Etsy did show me where I had missed something concerning copyright registrations and I then modified the information I have posted. Other than that, I have not received anything. It is amazing the people who make claims and then run and hide when asked for some simple verification.

I am not a lawyer nor have I ever stayed at a Holiday Inn Express but I have watched every episode of Boston legal. When I was sued by M&M/Mars in 2002 over the use of their licensed fabrics, every lawyer I contacted told me to fold and throw myself on their mercy. When I fought back, all M&M/Mars wanted to do was settle. Disney was next and they folded so fast I was caught off guard. I have lost not a single federal case on the issues. And my husband, Mr Tabberone, and I represented ourselves. What does that tell you about these billion dollar companies and their corporate lawyers? They had the money to fight it but were afraid they would lose.

Hi Tabberone, I want to tell you that I have admired you for years. Thanks so much for everything you have done. You and your husband have definitely proven that David can still beat Goliath.
 

We couldn't care less that grandma is selling stitchings on eBay and pulling in $1k in profits a year, but U.S. law requires that we defend against it. And once we send that C&D letter and settle, we did our part to protect our trademarks and copyrights, and we don't risk losing anything with respect to that now settled situation.

I'm not sure who the 'we' is in your letter (are you saying that you worked in Disney legal?) but I have had contact with Disney. and believe me, Disney cares about people selling items on eBay. Are you familiar with eBay Vero? There has been a lot more than C & D letters. Most things they still go after people on, but not items any longer that they sell that we can use such as material, paper and stickers.
Most of us thank Tabberon for that.
 
The holding of L'Anza, which is likely to soon undergo Supreme Court review and might be overturned, is restricted to grey market imports. It says simply that a copyright holder that makes good for exports cannot then restrict re-import of goods to the United States. It does not apply to good that are not made for export. Simple as that.

The poorly written website simply takes dicta from a case and makes pretend dicta is the law, when its not.

The reason companies often settle - and when I did trademark transaction law (I now work at a movie studio and do more proactive work) we almost always settled - is because we actually don't care that much. We are required by United States law to zealously defend our copyrights and trademarks, or we lose them. We have to send cease and desist letters and threaten to sue, even to a small mom and pop operation that is of no harm to us. We only chase after it when it is a real problem that affects the bottom line - i.e. a large counterfeit ring. It is especially relevant with trademarks (which overlaps a lot with copyright, especially when we are dealing with graphic characters), because failure to protect a trademark means that the trademark is genericized and falls into the public domain. Aspirin, thermos and elevator were all once brandnames, but because the companies failed to protect them, they are no longer.

It has nothing to do with the fact that we would lose in court. We would win, because trademark and copyright law is on the side of big corporations. There's just no real point in chasing after a small mom/pop operation - its bad press and it does little to hurt business. We couldn't care less that grandma is selling stitchings on eBay and pulling in $1k in profits a year, but U.S. law requires that we defend against it. And once we send that C&D letter and settle, we did our part to protect our trademarks and copyrights, and we don't risk losing anything with respect to that now settled situation.

MAH, MAH, MAH - may I call you MAH? - you should pay closer attention to L'Anza. It was a Supreme Court decision in which the Supreme Court declared, "The whole point of the first sale doctrine is that once the copyright owner places a copyrighted item in the stream of commerce by selling it, he has exhausted his exclusive statutory right to control its distribution." see Quality King v Lanza, 98 F.3d 1109 (1998), that was over TEN YEARS AGO, something you seem to have missed. How long ago did you "do" trademark/copyrights?

For those unfamiliar with the terminology, let us first explain "dicta". According to Black's Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004), dictum (singular of dictum) is, "a statement of opinion or belief considered authoritative because of the dignity of the person making it". When judges makes decisions that are not challenged to a higher court, those decisions have the effect of law especially when those decision are cited by other jurisdictions when they make their decisions. And, in many cases, the decisions we cite are from the circuit's court of appeals which is binding upon the lower courts in that circuit. Many, like L'Anza, are Supreme Court decisions. Show me a decision I quote that does not have the effect of law. Dicta, as you refer to it, means the footnote dissenting opinions that are not part of the decision. I do not quote those except as reference.

But again, you generalize: state the specific cases that I cite that are contrary to law. Law is written by Congress and administered by the federal courts. When an unchallenged court opinion that appears to be contrary to the law, Congress has the authority to change that law to its liking. I quote court decisions which have more authority that your interpretation of what the law appears to say. Court decisions are the court interpretation of the law.

You misrepresent the fact that companies do not care. Consider this: all Disney has to do is win one case about the use of their fabric and the practice would halt. The last licensed fabric case that went to trial was 1997 and Precious Moments lost that case. The year we sued Disney, 2002, Disney made $34 billion. The cost of swatting us aside was infinitesimal compared to their budget and their profit. Their counsel frankly admitted that they did not want to be the "test case" on that issue. AGAINST TWO PRO SE DEFENDANTS? Really? Because they did not want to take the chance they would lose, to TWO PRO SE PLAINTIFFS?

The rest of your statement is typical "loser" garbage. We frequently hear that from people who try to justify why the "big" companies cannot be bothered with small infringements. Not so. Companies and their corporate lawyers go after many small mom and pop operations all the time because they know they cannot fight back. They are easy victories that pad the legal bills, justify their existence and make the lowlifes feel so good about themselves. Also, there is NO requirement in trademark law or in copyright law that a cease & desist letter be sent before taking legal action. And, there is nothing in copyright law that requires copyright owners fight back, ever - only in trademark law. These statements by you, like many others, lack a factual basis and shows your disconnect with the real world. And, you still have not answered what you "do" trademark/copyrights means? It appears that you are a lawyer wannabe.

I stand by my challenge - show me where my web site statements are wrong.
 
I'm not sure who the 'we' is in your letter (are you saying that you worked in Disney legal?) but I have had contact with Disney. and believe me, Disney cares about people selling items on eBay. Are you familiar with eBay Vero? There has been a lot more than C & D letters. Most things they still go after people on, but not items any longer that they sell that we can use such as material, paper and stickers.
Most of us thank Tabberon for that.

Disney cares to the extent it has to make efforts to care under U.S. law. It otherwise really does not care whatsoever. You have nobody to thank other than the fact that Disney has no business case to legally pursue these situations further than early inquiry, because with that it satisfies all it needs to to police its trademarks and copyright under U.S. law.

It's hysterical watching people who aren't lawyers try to interpret cases in such convoluted ways.


I stand by my challenge - show me where my web site statements are wrong.

I showed it. You don't want to believe it. It's fine.

You're funny though, thanks for the entertainment.

As for what "I do," I answered it, but if you so desperately want more details: I work in-house at a studio in Los Angeles and pro-actively search for trademark/copyright issues that arise in filming productions (i.e. something as trivial as a Pepsi can being consumed by a main character), in addition to policing the studio's current active trademarks and copyrights.

And before that, I was at a firm and I sent those C&D letters that work almost every time. And when they didn't work, we negotiated settlements always quite favorable to the infringer, because the reality is, 99% of the time we don't care about the infringement that much. We just need to pursue the matter in order to protect ourselves in the future against the 1% of infringers we do care about.

The major exception to the rule is in the case of fashion houses, jewelery companies and artists: they always care about the infringer, as, do, obviously studios with relation to bootlegged videos or CDs. But does Disney care that a daycare center in Topeka is using its characters? Not really, but U.S. trademark law forces Disney to pursue it, or risk losing the trademark.

If somebody is using Disney licensed fabric and creating goods, and making, say, a $1M annual profit off of it, Disney damn does care, it will pursue it, and it will win. There is a cost-benefit analysis required in determining how far to effectively pursue the matter.

The moral of the story is simple: don't be too successful in your stealing of copyright and trademarked products.
 
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Disney cares to the extent it has to make efforts to care under U.S. law. It otherwise really does not care whatsoever. You have nobody to thank other than the fact that Disney has no business case to legally pursue these situations further than early inquiry, because with that it satisfies all it needs to to police its trademarks and copyright under U.S. law..

That is only your opinion, not law. Disney is no longer sending out the C & D letters or making follow up phone calls to those using material, paper products and stickers, nor sicing the eBay Vero on the same..at least not to those selling on eBay and active in the eBay community. I'll thank the person I have found that has helped me, as will many others.

I'll ask again, have you been on Disney's legal team? Or are you just lumping them in with whoever you have worked for and assuming they work the same way. Are you aware that Disney does not stop in some instances at a C & D letter? Even to the 'little' guys?
If somebody is using Disney licensed fabric and creating goods, and making, say, a $1M annual profit off of it, Disney damn does care, it will pursue it, and it will win. There is a cost-benefit analysis required in determining how far to effectively pursue the matter.

What is the limit, if you have worked for Disney, that a person needs to make before Disney goes after them. I assume $25,000 - 30,000 isn't enough? How about if the 'little' person is making something Disney liked so much, that Disney ordered them to sell in their own shops in the resorts and uses the item at Corporate parties? Are those people also ignored?
 
That is only your opinion, not law. Disney is no longer sending out the C & D letters or making follow up phone calls to those using material, paper products and stickers, nor sicing the eBay Vero on the same..at least not to those selling on eBay and active in the eBay community. I'll thank the person I have found that has helped me, as will many others.

I'll ask again, have you been on Disney's legal team? Or are you just lumping them in with whoever you have worked for and assuming they work the same way. Are you aware that Disney does not stop in some instances at a C & D letter? Even to the 'little' guys?

Have I personally worked for Disney? No. But for a major studio? Yes. And do we all work the same way? Absolutely.

I am obviously aware that Disney does not stop at a C&D letter. Nobody stops at a C&D letter if the C&D letter is ignored.

What is the limit, if you have worked for Disney, that a person needs to make before Disney goes after them. I assume $25,000 - 30,000 isn't enough? How about if the 'little' person is making something Disney liked so much, that Disney ordered them to sell in their own shops in the resorts and uses the item at Corporate parties? Are those people also ignored?

Just like we would do, Disney, its business affairs department (in-house), its finance gurus and its outside counsel will run a cost benefit analysis in every individual situation to determine how and to what extent to pursue a matter. There is no universal answer.

If Disney discovers something it likes, then it can obviously work with that producer to make the product officially licensed. Or, more likely, it can copy the idea on its own through its suppliers since the plagiarized product, which infringes on the copyright/trademark holder's derivative rights, has the barest form of copyright protection.
 
Thanks..that's what I thought, that you have never worked for Disney. So IMO, you can't answer for them. Very few absolutes in this life. Any more than you can say, that Nobody stops at a C & D letter if it's ignored.

Have I personally worked for Disney? No. But for a major studio? Yes. And do we all work the same way? Absolutely.

I am obviously aware that Disney does not stop at a C&D letter. Nobody stops at a C&D letter if the C&D letter is ignored.



Just like we would do, Disney, its business affairs department (in-house), its finance gurus and its outside counsel will run a cost benefit analysis in every individual situation to determine how and to what extent to pursue a matter. There is no universal answer.

If Disney discovers something it likes, then it can obviously work with that producer to make the product officially licensed. Or, more likely, it can copy the idea on its own through its suppliers since the plagiarized product, which infringes on the copyright/trademark holder's derivative rights, has the barest form of copyright protection.
 
No warning just a topic of conversation. He knows it was wrong, so do we all. He got caught and is going to be made an example of. He'll pay whatever fine he is given and will move on.

This is one of those times where a really good business attorney would be beneficial. Lets say he pays a lawyer $10,000 to defend him and he wins based on the fact that he didn't actually profit from his act. That would be way better than paying $80,000 to the company.
 
This is one of those times where a really good business attorney would be beneficial.
Or just simply consideration: If someone else came up with something people like, don't try to make money on it without that someone's permission.
 
It's hysterical watching people who aren't lawyers try to interpret cases in such convoluted ways.

We agree because that is exactly what you are trying to do. You ignore replies and plod on with your inane babbling.

I showed it. You don't want to believe it. It's fine.

You were refuted and you have no response.

As for what "I do," I answered it, but if you so desperately want more details: I work in-house at a studio in Los Angeles and pro-actively search for trademark/copyright issues that arise in filming productions (i.e. something as trivial as a Pepsi can being consumed by a main character), in addition to policing the studio's current active trademarks and copyrights.

And before that, I was at a firm and I sent those C&D letters that work almost every time. And when they didn't work, we negotiated settlements always quite favorable to the infringer, because the reality is, 99% of the time we don't care about the infringement that much. We just need to pursue the matter in order to protect ourselves in the future against the 1% of infringers we do care about.

The major exception to the rule is in the case of fashion houses, jewelery companies and artists: they always care about the infringer, as, do, obviously studios with relation to bootlegged videos or CDs. But does Disney care that a daycare center in Topeka is using its characters? Not really, but U.S. trademark law forces Disney to pursue it, or risk losing the trademark.

If somebody is using Disney licensed fabric and creating goods, and making, say, a $1M annual profit off of it, Disney damn does care, it will pursue it, and it will win. There is a cost-benefit analysis required in determining how far to effectively pursue the matter.

The moral of the story is simple: don't be too successful in your stealing of copyright and trademarked products.

Not everyone using a trademark or copyright is "stealing" as you claim.

Ah, but now we know where you sit before you tell us where you stand. You are employed as what we call a Cyber Cop. That is why you doggedly continue to chant the mantra that it is no big deal. You do not want other people or relatives to really know what you do for a living. We list Cyber Cops on our web site in the Hall Of Shame under Cyber Cops (I cannot post the URL because of site restrictions). We consider Cyber Cops generally to be scum.

Cyber Cops cannot get real jobs so they troll the internet looking for often falsely perceived and imagined infringements by little fish victims who cannot fight back. Cyber Cops get rewarded by the number of victims, not by actual infringements located. It is a numbers game. Yes, there are actual infringements out there but it has been our experience that Cyber Cops pad their accomplishments by attacking work at home moms and small businesses. Large businesses have attorneys who can, and will, fight back and those do not look good on the work record of the Cyber Cop.

You negotiated settlements "quite favorable" to the infringer that said "stop now and we will not bankrupt you in federal court." We post a lot of those C&D letters on the web site. they are always over-blown and with exaggerated claims of liability and consequences. There scare the little businesses and work at home moms into compliance even if there is no infringement. That is because the little businesses and work at home moms do not understand the application of the law versus the wording of the law and that is where Cyber Cops take advantage of them.

Before Disney attacked us, we were making maybe $100 a year from their licensed products. After we sued them in 2002 they now "allow" the use of their licensed fabrics and such. That does appear to destroy your false argument that the companies do not care about the "little" infringers.
 
Oh my gosh...Welcome!..so glad to see you here. I take it your website, like mine, shows you where the hits are coming from?

You and I have chatted over the years and you have always been right up front. I sure appreciate the work you have done! You have helped a lot of people, that's for sure.


Hi there. I cannot contact you directly as there is a limit on what I can do until I have 10 posts, like posting URLs. Those are reasonable limitations.

I have counters on most of my pages and when I get unusual activity on one page I try to see why. Sometimes I get involved especially when I get personally attacked. The refuge of the weak mind is to make personal attacks upon the messenger when they cannot debate the issues.
 
He sold items featuring the copyright of someone else's logo? :rolleyes:
 
major Swiss watch company for copyright infringement. His hearing is in a few weeks. They are suing for $80,000. What he did was make some items with their logo mainly to give away to friends but he did sell some over the internet. He lost $4000 or so making these items but did it as a hobby and to give some things to his watch collecting buddies. He overnighted a hand written letter to the President of the US branch of this company asking for the suit to be dismissed as he has been a customer for over 30 years and has spent many tens of thousand of dollars on their product and was only an enthusiast. They will not budge.

A few years ago Disney sued a local day care for using images of it's characters on the walls in the day care. I guess you can't blame these large companies for protecting themselves. This watch company is know to go to all sorts of extremes and expense to protect their name.

I am confused there are a lot of class rooms that have disney characters on their walls so why would this person be sued
 
That's a bad analogy. Day care centers are private enterprises. Schools are municipal institutions. (That doesn't mean schools are allowed; it just means that even if schools were allowed, that doesn't mean day cares are also allowed. Like I said, you made a bad analogy.)
 
That's a bad analogy. Day care centers are private enterprises. Schools are municipal institutions. (That doesn't mean schools are allowed; it just means that even if schools were allowed, that doesn't mean day cares are also allowed. Like I said, you made a bad analogy.)

sry abut that I did not reize that there was a big difference and yes I have heard of teachers doing that
 
I am confused there are a lot of class rooms that have Disney characters on their walls so why would this person be sued
It's also an issue of Disney being aware of the use of the images. IIRC, the day care in question was located in central Florida and I'm guessing the legal fireworks started when a Disney employee noticed the artwork while there. However, Disney doesn't have teams searching school classrooms and hallways for would be infringers nationwide.
 
(I'll get to my 10 posts one way or another)

Major League Baseball used to send out letters to people using their licensed fabric demanding 1/2 of what they made otherwise they would take them to court.

They shut me down. I sued. They fought for 6 months, two different law firms were involved. The second law firm wasn't so much for the issues but was brought in to make it all go away.

After 6 months they settled in our favor, paid our expenses and stopped going after other people using the licensed fabric.

I guess they didn't find our arguments laughable.
 

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