$95 fee and MS comments

[dismiss]

jagson
Did you ever get a response to your letter to DVC Guest Satisfaction
I would be interested in know ing what they said
Thanks

 

[Mirthrindr2]

You also realize tha ANY DVC computer upgrades won't be paid for by Disney, they are paid either through booking fees (like the $95) or an overall increase in dues.

Why should that be (though I completely agree there were never any guarantees)?!? DVC is an independent, but fully owned subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company. As an independent corporation within the Walt Disney Company's Parks & Resorts business segment, its independent purpose is to make 'profits'. The goal of its creation was never to just be nice to us all and just break even.

DVC was developed to be a 'for profit' subsidiary of the WDC. So my question is, why aren't the PROFITS made through this independent subsidiary being used to reinvest in the business and pay for these types of infrastructure upgrades instead of passing the cost on to the loyal customer base? As I understand it, they already increase member's Annual Maintenance fees almost every year. Admittedly, I do not actually know how profitable DVC is at this time, as I did not check my WDC Prospectus to see if this information is broken out.

So I agree with others that I still don't understand the reason they are giving for this particular change. Unfortunately, the powers that be managing DVC (Disney Vacation Development) know one thing..., people will initially be mad whenever making changes such as this, but they also know we will continue to come.

 

[DebbieB]

It seems obvious to me that Disney does not want DVC Members staying at resorts other than DVC resorts. For me, the points needed to stay at a moderate or deluxe resort are way too inflated to make financial sense. I refuse to spend 40 something points (or more) to stay at the CR or POLY. I would rather change my vacation dates or rent my points and pocket the $400 or $500 I could make off the transaction.

I agree that $95 is a lot of money. Florida residents can get MOD rooms for $99 or $104 per night at various times throughout the year.

The last thing that Disney would want is copmpetition for rooms between DVC Members and cash paying customers.

If a DVC member is spending many of their points to stay at non DVC resorts they are not getting the kind of value they could get at a DVC resort.

Just a thought.

If you look at the DVC advertising for new members, they put a big emphasis on trading out.

Last month I had a business trip to Orlando. It was Monday to Wednesday, the office is Downtown off Colonial Drive. I decided to fly down Sunday morning, go to the Food & Wine Festival and spend the night at at WDW hotel rather than driving Downtown late. It was about 3 weeks before and there was no DVC room available, any resort,any room size. I have extra points available, so I took a room at POFQ for 18 points. I could have got an AP rate of $124 plus tax. Next year they will charge a $95 fee plus the points for this stay. That is totally crazy. 18 points is high for a moderate room, plus $95?

 

[Chuck S]

Why should that be (though I completely agree there were never any guarantees)?!? DVC is an independent, but fully owned subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company. As an independent corporation within the Walt Disney Company's Parks & Resorts business segment, its independent purpose is to make 'profits'. The goal of its creation was never to just be nice to us all and just break even.

DVC was developed to be a 'for profit' subsidiary of the WDC. So my question is, why aren't the PROFITS made through this independent subsidiary being used to reinvest in the business and pay for these types of infrastructure upgrades instead of passing the cost on to the loyal customer base? As I understand it, they already increase member's Annual Maintenance fees almost every year. Admittedly, I do not actually know how profitable DVC is at this time, as I did not check my WDC Prospectus to see if this information is broken out.

So I agree with others that I still don't understand the reason they are giving for this particular change. Unfortunately, the powers that be managing DVC (Disney Vacation Development) know one thing..., people will initially be mad whenever making changes such as this, but they also know we will continue to come.

DVC Members Services is not a profit center for Disney, its sole reason to exist is to make reservations for DVC members. Disney makes profit on the initial sale of DVC and annual management fees for the resorts, but the actual operational costs of the resort and the reservation system are the responsibilty of the DVC owners. Non-owners can not call DVC Member services. Doesn't work that way with most, if not all, timeshares?

 

[wendyinoc]

I don't mind the fee if it was for a week stay, but it does not make sense lets say you just need one night. I think they are doing this probably since now they have more locations. Once Ca and Hi open they will probably charge even more. I doubt it has to do with computer programs.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I don't mind the fee if it was for a week stay, but it does not make sense lets say you just need one night. I think they are doing this probably since now they have more locations. Once Ca and Hi open they will probably charge even more. I doubt it has to do with computer programs.

It's just another way to get more money out of DVC members, especially those that bought in early for $50 a point.

 

[Mirthrindr2]

DVC Members Services is not a profit center for Disney, its sole reason to exist is to make reservations for DVC members. Disney makes profit on the initial sale of DVC and annual management fees for the resorts, but the actual operational costs of the resort and the reservation system are the responsibility of the DVC owners. Non-owners can not call DVC Member services. Doesn't work that way with most, if not all, timeshares?

My point exactly. Shouldn't matter if it's a profit point for Disney or not... if it's solely and strictly used for DVC purposes, then it is part of the bigger picture that comprises the total operating expense for the DVC business segment. As in ANY business, I would hope they are reinvesting some part of businesses annual net income back into the infrastructure of the business. After all, I'm sure there are other aspects of DVC that are not profit centers but are still impact operating costs.

By the above argument, one could argue if the building MS is housed in needs renovations, new bathrooms, new computers, new pavement for the parking lot, etc., it would be the responsibility of DVC members to cover those costs. I know this is subjective, but I think infrastructure such as a new PBX phone system and similar networking technologies should be covered by reinvesting in ones self.

At any rate, I'm no business major so what do I know. Just stating an opinion that apparently a lot of people generally agree with. Like others, it more about the principle for me.

 

[Chuck S]

My point exactly. Shouldn't matter if it's a profit point for Disney or not... if it's solely and strictly used for DVC purposes, then it is part of the bigger picture that comprises the total operating expense for the DVC business segment. As in ANY business, I would hope they are reinvesting some part of businesses annual net income back into the infrastructure of the business. After all, I'm sure there are other aspects of DVC that are not profit centers but are still impact operating costs.

By the above argument, one could argue if the building MS is housed in needs renovations, new bathrooms, new computers, new pavement for the parking lot, etc., it would be the responsibility of DVC members to cover those costs. I know this is subjective, but I think infrastructure such as a new PBX phone system and similar networking technologies should be covered by reinvesting in ones self.

At any rate, I'm no business major so what do I know. Just stating an opinion that apparently a lot of people generally agree with. Like others, it more about the principle for me.

So, you are saying since Disney made profit from the sale of DVC Memberships, they should be responsible for footing the bill for Member Services? But the same could be suggested for the resort operating expenses...Disney made profit from the sale of the resort, so they should pay all the operating expenses of the resort.

Timeshares just don't work that way.

And I'm sure we do pay for the MS phone system, the 800 number, new computers, etc. I'm sure members also pay the leasehold on the building that MS occupies, for most commercial leases, however, the building owner pays for building improvements/maintenance like bathrooms, parking lot paving, etc. But that is certainly negotiable.

 

[Blahnde]

I don't like this new $95 fee for all the same reasons everyone else dislikes it; it is for a completely bogus reason, they are "nickel and diming" us, it devalues our membership, system upgrades should be budgeted from profits and regular dues, etc. I agree with you all!

But what none of you have said is that this fee will become completely irrelevant in 5-10 years, maybe less.

I just looked up the number of points needed in 2000 to make a reservation at the Grand Floridian ... it has gone up (depending upon season and room type) 20-45% in just 7 years! For 2007 it takes 344 points to stay for just one week during Value Season in a Garden View at the Grand Floridian; that is about 3 times the points that same week in the highest point studio (BCV, BWV-BV, or VWL) at 104 points! Based upon how much the points for non-DVC rooms have risen in the past (I used an average of 35% every 7 years, or 5% per year), it will take 430 points in 5 years (2012) and 516 points in 10 years (2017.) Can you imagine anyone using 5 times as many points to stay at a non-DVC resort?

The $95 fee will be the least of our problems ... who in their right mind would ever use points to stay anywhere besides a DVC resort, including Concierge and Adventurer Collections, and Interval International! I understand that this is the entire basis of the DVC value, but while I hate the $95 fee, the time is soon approaching when it will be 4, 5, 10 times the points and the fee will be irrelevant! And there will be no value to our memberships EXCEPT at DVC Resorts!

Blahnde

 

[Chuck S]

I don't like this new $95 fee for all the same reasons everyone else dislikes it; it is for a completely bogus reason, they are "nickel and diming" us, it devalues our membership, system upgrades should be budgeted from profits and regular dues, etc. I agree with you all!

But what none of you have said is that this fee will become completely irrelevant in 5-10 years, maybe less.

I just looked up the number of points needed in 2000 to make a reservation at the Grand Floridian ... it has gone up (depending upon season and room type) 20-45% in just 7 years! For 2007 it takes 344 points to stay for just one week during Value Season in a Garden View at the Grand Floridian; that is about 3 times the points that same week in the highest point studio (BCV, BWV-BV, or VWL) at 104 points! Based upon how much the points for non-DVC rooms have risen in the past (I used an average of 35% every 7 years, or 5% per year), it will take 430 points in 5 years (2012) and 516 points in 10 years (2017.) Can you imagine anyone using 5 times as many points to stay at a non-DVC resort?

The $95 fee will be the least of our problems ... who in their right mind would ever use points to stay anywhere besides a DVC resort, including Concierge and Adventurer Collections, and Interval International! I understand that this is the entire basis of the DVC value, but while I hate the $95 fee, the time is soon approaching when it will be 4, 5, 10 times the points and the fee will be irrelevant! And there will be no value to our memberships EXCEPT at DVC Resorts!

Blahnde

But cash room rates have risen greatly, too. In 1991, I paid about $200 a night for a tower room, park view, at CR. That same room is $445 per night in the same season today. Since DVC point rates at non-DVC resorts are negotiated annually, I would expect the point increases to reflect similar rate increases, wouldn't you?

The value in DVC has always been staying at a DVC resort (or trading to another timeshare) rather than other Disney destinations. Nothing has changed in that regard. Interval International isn't really an awful deal for an occasional trade. I doubt there will be a huge increase in points there.

 

[Blahnde]

Since DVC point rates at non-DVC resorts are negotiated annually, I would expect the point increases to reflect similar rate increases, wouldn't you?

The value in DVC has always been staying at a DVC resort (or trading to another timeshare) rather than other Disney destinations.

Obviously I understand this; I wrote "I understand that this is the entire basis of the DVC value ..."

But what I am trying to point out is that others on this board were saying that the fee was DVC's way of discouraging us from using non-DVC resorts. They don't need a fee to discourage us ... the price differential is and will be more than enough to discourge it! In the beginning (15 years ago) the prices between DVC and Deluxe Resorts were in line; as the years have progressed the difference has grown wider and wider.

I understand the concept of inflation and I suspect so does most everyone on this board. My first car cost ... blah, blah, blah. And if you need a lesson in inflation, just look at our dues! All I was trying to say is the $95 fee will be increasingly insignificant as fewer and fewer of us will be crazy enough to waste 3, 4, 10 times the points on a non-DVC reservation!

And in case you have not figured it out by now, if you do not want to stay at a DVC Resort, the smart move is to rent out your points and use the money to make a cash reservation!

Blahnde

 

[wendyinoc]

One time I got mad at SBC and of course got no where with customer service. I went to the stock boards and wrote about the situation. I also went to the financial section and found an email to someone high up. Next thing you know it I had the executive customer service calling me and my problem was solved. Surely someone can think of something to fix this.

 

[Chuck S]

...But what I am trying to point out is that others on this board were saying that the fee was DVC's way of discouraging us from using non-DVC resorts. They don't need a fee to discourage us ... the price differential is and will be more than enough to discourge it! ....

All I was trying to say is the $95 fee will be increasingly insignificant as fewer and fewer of us will be crazy enough to waste 3, 4, 10 times the points on a non-DVC reservation!

And in case you have not figured it out by now, if you do not want to stay at a DVC Resort, the smart move is to rent out your points and use the money to make a cash reservation!

Ahhh...I understand your post now. I agree.

 

[Donna]

But cash room rates have risen greatly, too. In 1991, I paid about $200 a night for a tower room, park view, at CR. That same room is $445 per night in the same season today. Since DVC point rates at non-DVC resorts are negotiated annually, I would expect the point increases to reflect similar rate increases, wouldn't you?

The value in DVC has always been staying at a DVC resort (or trading to another timeshare) rather than other Disney destinations. Nothing has changed in that regard. Interval International isn't really an awful deal for an occasional trade. I doubt there will be a huge increase in points there.

The points for Fort Wilderness actually went DOWN for 2008 but still not enough to offset that crappy $95 fee.

 

[J and R's mom]

....the $95 fee will be increasingly insignificant as fewer and fewer of us will be crazy enough to waste 3, 4, 10 times the points on a non-DVC reservation!

This is actually a good point. I also think it's DVC's intention, in the long run, to discourage us from using points at non-DVC resorts.

I have a hard time using more points per night at a moderate hotel (CBR, CSR, POR) than at a DVC studio that (to me) has nicer amenities and facilities.

 

[dvc-NE]

Honestly it's a load of crap.

You can say that again.

 

[dianeschlicht]

You realize that they don't have to allow us to use our points anywhere except our home resorts, right? There are no guarantees that WDW resorts, cruises or anything other than your home resort will remain a booking option.

You also realize tha ANY DVC computer upgrades won't be paid for by Disney, they are paid either through booking fees (like the $95) or an overall increase in dues.

I totally agree, and I never thought using points for non-DVC on site resorts was ever a good deal, so the additional $95 fee doesn't bother me in the least. I didn't use that option before the fee, and will be less likely to after it. I see nothing wrong with DVC charging anything for "exchanges". Anything that is "out of system" like that probably should have a fee associated with it anyway.

 

[rinkwide]

...The value in DVC has always been staying at a DVC resort (or trading to another timeshare) rather than other Disney destinations...

Your memory gettin' a little foggy there Chuck?

 

[Donna]

I totally agree, and I never thought using points for non-DVC on site resorts was ever a good deal, so the additional $95 fee doesn't bother me in the least. I didn't use that option before the fee, and will be less likely to after it. I see nothing wrong with DVC charging anything for "exchanges". Anything that is "out of system" like that probably should have a fee associated with it anyway.

Of course it's never been a good deal, no one ever said it was. But there are times that some people may need to use their points that way, for various reasons stated in this thread and just from reading this thread, it happens quite a bit. If you see nothing wrong with DVC charging for THIS, don't be upset when things that you use are charged for in the future. It WILL happen.

In other words, I think the main point of this thread is if you're charged for one thing that in the past was free, it will happen in the future

 

[nunzia]

Yes, but we all see so many cases of people coming here to ask simple questions that are available in their "guide books" and on the web site, but folks are too lazy to look at it or read it for themselves. They want someone to explain it to them. I can see how this simplifies it for DVD, and the reality is that so few of trade out and so seldom, that it really isn't going to be a huge impact on most DVC members.

Well, as someone who has probably asked some of those simple questions, it is because I am still in the beginning stages, my purchase is not complete, and I don't have the guidebook or member's site available to me. I am guessing that many are in the same boat.

I can understand why you are upset about the $95, in the way it was implemented, and you are right that it is probably a beginning of nickel and diming. It's probably a good thing to express your displeasure to Disney, as it might show them that folks are 'paying attention'. It won't stop this fee, but it might slow down additional ones. Word of mouth from existing members is the best marketing they have. All the slick DVDs and beautiful Dream books would do nothing to convince me to buy if I came to boards like this and saw nothing but dis-satisfaction.