$73.55 per point

[vetteguy]

Hi,
My name is Daniel, I'm living in Belgium and have been lurking from a long time now. We've decided my wife and myself thatwe're ready to buy into dvc.
I'll share with you my experience because I've been involved with the seller on that okw auction on ebay.
I've made last Thursday a deal on those 190 okw points with the seller. She told me that we should make a contract that we both needed to sign. I agreed with that and waited Friday a fax from her that I didn't received. While a was surfing on ebay Sunday, I saw that those points were for auction. I told her that and I told her that she could end the auction if she wants. She assured me that she would fax me a contract monday asap. Of course, I didn't received one(I have e-mails on all what I'm saying). I began to thing that she was holding me has a back up solution if the auction didn't work good. Tuesday, a couple minutes before the auction ended I received a e-mail from her telling me that I needed to bid if I didn't wanted to lose the sale and that the deal between us was a done deal.
I bidded on ebay. Now, she wants that I pay her the amount I bid and not what we've agreed before.
I told her that I've made a deal with her last week and I will stick on that. I'm waiting a response but I'm not making myself illusions. She'll certainly not respect our agreement.
I'm very sad now but I guess I'll better deal from now with the professionals(atimeshare, timeshare store).
Thanks for the great info on the board and I'll let you know when I've joined.

 

[Richyams]

Welcome to the board and we hope a "welcome Home" will be in order soon.

Do everyone in the world a favor. Leave feedback for her on EBAY. This will inform anyone she tries to deal with in the future, that she is less then honest.

She is going to get creamed on this thread in a little while, wait a couple hours and then send her a link to this thread.

Post her e-mail here tomorrow. Her phone number, I think she may be able to be shamed into honoring her agreement with you.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[LauraS]

Sorry to hear that you've had such a bad experience dealing with this women on Ebay. Unfortunately selling to the highest bidder isn't good enough for some people when they think that they can get even more money. I would certainly let other bidders on Ebay know that this person is dishonest with negative feedback. I mean, really let her have it.

And quite honestly, I think that you could do much better price-wise by going through a professional timeshare operation. There are more reasonable offers out there, especially being that you're on the purchasing end of it. The seller is not only dishonest, but she's out to avoid closing costs.

I hope that you find an even better price for the BWV very soon, and I'm quite sure that you will!! BWV is an awesome resort and I'm hoping that you and your family will enjoy many happy visits there!!

Laura

 

[jennybobenny]

For anyone interested here are the ebay auctions:

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=563327708">Old Key West, 190 points</a>

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=563222772">Boardwalk Villas, 190 points</a>

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=561286653">Both resorts combined, 380 points total</a>

<font face="Class Garmnd BT"><font color="ff69b4"><big>Jennybºoº benny</big></font>
<font color="9400d3">~~DVC Member~~
Onsite: Poly '76, Contemp '98, BWV '99, CBR '00, BWV '00, CBR '01
Offsite: '74 '80 '82 '88
Next trip: BWV~June '01, ASM/BWV~Nov '01</font>
<a href="http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jsmith12/jillian&kylecharacterpage.html">Jillian & Kyle's Disney Character Website</a></font>

 

[drusba]

Let me put it this way, if she calls back, I would not care what she is now offering, you tell her in your nicest, calmest, and friendliest way to "GO TO HELL!" Of, course, you may if you desire choose other words that are not fit to print, and you can choose not to be nice, calm, or friendly. I would not trust this person to complete the deal properly including a closing even if she came back and said she will do the original deal. Note, particularly when you are trying to buy from outside the US, you are likely better off going through Disney or an established resale broker. That way you will be assured the deal will be completed properly

 

[mikesmom]

Daniel, what a crummy thing for her to do. It must be awfully hard to get such a let down once your hopes were so high. We hope you get to buy in real soon, and join the family!

 

[kem330]

Consider yourself lucky, those prices are no bargain! I paid $62/pt for BW resale this month with all year 2000 points banked and all 2001 intact with closing it came to about $64/pt.Get on a list with The Timeshare Store and Jaki at A Timeshare Broker. They will help you with an ethical sale.

 

[cindyroggin]

I started my e-mail messages with Dan on the day my E-bay listing listed. He contacted me through email and wanted to know the specifics. I told him the specs as I had told many others. One of the persons I had email transactions with and who was the first bidder on ebays OKW,He bid 10,200, I had it listed at 10,100. This Man who I will leave nameless, is the one who told me what Mr. Dan was doing to my name on this site. I also see he put quite a few good comments in your bashing session. If anyone got the raw end of the deal it is Me. I TOLD DAN ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS< I WAS NOT, NOR COULD I, TAKE THIS OFF EBAY, ESPECIALLY AFTER THERE WAS A BID> HE SENT THE AGREEMENT< HE WANTED ME TO SIGN, FAX AND STOP THE AUCTION> I never thought this would sell at the price it did, this was the second time I was listing it. Ebay wasn't charging me because I had not sold it the first time, although, I was trying to sell both the Deeds on one auction the first time that is when Dan contacted me to ask if I would split them. I had already split the bids on Ebay and the bidds started comming in. I was amazed to see BoardWalk Sell at 14,975.00, although this bidder backed out as well as Dan! WHO IS UP TO WHAT DAN?Fortunately, the next lowest bidder grabbed it up who knows what this man or DAN was up to with riding the bid up on BoardWalk only to walk away, sound familular DAN. The man who BOUGHT Boardwalk as of today, wants to own at BoardWalk where he already has points and the RESORT IS SOLD OUT> as is OLD KEY WEST. I also had 14 bids on POOR Dans auction bid. Dan, of course claims he doesn't know what he is doing, who was the #11th bidder at 12,350. Dan went on ebay in the last seconds and submitted three bids in a row at 12,450.00 to pop up in the last seconds of the auction. AND NOW HE WALKS! I faxed you earlier tonite Dan my children, my husband and I came home from church, and after talking we decided we would sell to you. Maybe I had confused the situation, not knowing it would sell as it did. Well Delete the e-mail Dan ALL OF YOU ARE AS SURPRISED AS I AM at what they sold for. I can't beleive you. You waited until the last minute and than bid 12475.00 THREE TIMES IN A ROW to knock anyone else out only to BACK OUT! I Have emailed Chrissy, she is thrilled with you walking away. I Told you I was letting the auction Finish you kept insisting I take it off ebay, and signed the agreement YOU wrote up. You wanted me to fax a signed agreement to you befor the auction closed I said NO> I sent you a email and said this was a done deal, meaning it was being bid on ebay to my surprise and all of yours as well, and I didn't want you to not get it, that is why you received a email from me. If I was out to get you I would have let it ride. Of course you expressed to me you were not understand these things. Yea Right, that is why you drove up the price and walked away. Who is the injured party Dan? My 80 year old Father and Mother Vacationed with me every year since my purchase of OKW In 1993 and boardWalk purchase in 1996 we also have four daughters in elementary school. I lost part of my life when my dad passed recently, and my 6 year old daughter had to have open heart surgery. This is why I am selling these deeds. I have great memories of times spent at Disney with All of my family. You on the other hand are making this a BITTER SWEET DEAL> As for the people who pity Dan and say I should be told to go to Hell. How dare you! Here is my phone number you told him to post, Dan, are you a DVC member? Judge, and you shall be judged in the same manner you judge others. I have had my share of hurt and you are and the others who bashed me only add to one thing: It is people like you who give a person like myself a bad name.
Go Up 3 commnts and see jennybobenny: She, so nicely listed my ebay listings, that way you all can compare Dan to Cindy. this is sickening, I am going to bed, although I am sure Dan is Sleeping.
Why do I let people bother me, I guess because I care. Yea that's it, I Care, why, someone tell me why my family is sleeping and I at 2:00 am worried about what you all think.

Let the trading begin--your item is listed!
Title of item: Disney World Vacation Club Ownership
Minimum bid: $10,100.00
Reserve price (if any): $0.00
Quantity: 1
Auction Ends on: Tuesday, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:12:49 PST

Your item number is: 563327708

Fees:
Insertion Fee: $50.00

Boldfacing Fee: $2.00
Gallery Fee: $0.25
Total fees for this item: $52.25

.

*You can change your item listing as long as no one has bid on it yet. Just go to eBay.com, click on your listing, and choose Update Item. If you can't find your listing, enter its title in the search window.

Best of luck! Ebay
***********************************************************

Cynthia M. Roggin
DVC OWNER

[This message was edited by cindyroggin on 03-01-01 at 01:50 AM.] <IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused">

Original Message -----
This is our E- mail between Dan and Myself
From: vetteguy
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:50 AM
To: cindyroggin@msn.com
Subject: old key west


Hello,
I've seen your auction for disney's old key west and know how the system work. I'm very interested but I like to know if you've some points left from 2000 and if all points from 2001 are available.
I hope hear from you soon,
Best regards
Daniel De Pelecyn


Hi Cindy,
The due for 190 points are $1,360? are you sure that's correct ? Isn't the dues for your Old Key West and Boardwalk together? I believe last year(2000) it was $3.0540 per point(for 190 points in 2000 : $580.26). It would be faire that I pay the dues for the points left (147 points) and not those you've used. As for the closing costs, let say we split the cost.
Hope that'll work for you,
Dan

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Cynthia Roggin <cindyroggin@msn.com>
À : vetteguy <vetteguy@planetinternet.be>
Date : 22 February 2001 16:47
Objet : Re: old key west


Hi Dan,

10,900 will work and The buyer pays closing. let me know. I have been advised by brokers not to go lower but I have a family member who is very ill and i can't keep advertising this thank you. The due for this year need to be paid, they are 1,360.00
Sincerely,
cindy

----- Original Message -----
From: vetteguy
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:28 AM
To: Cynthia Roggin
Subject: Re: old key west


Hello again,
So, no points from 2000 and you've borrowed 43 points from 2001.
If all above is right, I want to make you an offer if you're ready to sell before the end of the auction.
I can offer you $10900 for your 190 points at Old Key West and closing costs for the seller. Let me know if you agree and how we must process further.
Daniel

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Cynthia Roggin <cindyroggin@msn.com>
À : vetteguy <vetteguy@planetinternet.be>
Date : 22 February 2001 15:10
Objet : Re: old key west


Hello,
I have no points left from 2000 and I have 147 for 2001 at old key west. I borrowed a couple of points for a trip. I own 190 yearly. I will be posting another sale for Boardwalk Villas, I have 190 owned there and available for 2001 and i am asking 12000.00


----- Original Message -----
From: vetteguy
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:50 AM
To: cindyroggin@msn.com
Subject: old key west


Hello,
I've seen your auction for disney's old key west and know how the system work. I'm very interested but I like to know if you've some points left from 2000 and if all points from 2001 are available.
I hope hear from you soon,
Best regards
Daniel De Pelecyn

[This message was edited by cindyroggin on 03-01-01 at 03:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by cindyroggin on 03-01-01 at 09:18 AM.]

 

[Richyams]

I was the first response, a strongly negative response towards you. I must apologize, he completely misrepresented the situation. Not to bash foreigners, but because their government and societies often make cheating and finding loopholes a way of life, he may have honestly though that he could jst get around something.

I am very familiar with EBAY and auctioning, from you feedback, probably alot more familiar then you are. I understand the terms under which you set up an auction completely. Obviously you can't take it down once it has had a bid. He claims that you had a "meeting of the minds" before it went on EBAY, that its appearence there was a shock. You come off very credible. My first reaction is to jump on your side calling him a liar....actually, its my second and third reaction also....but then he is going to post scanned corrospondence with your signature and a date the is weeks before the EBAY auction.

If this was the people's court, I would vote for you, but until we get sworn depositions and evidence, its hard....I don't want to be apologizing to him next week when he posts those contracts, lol

I jumped the gun and jumped to a conclusion, he sounded credible, but I should have known, 99.999% of EBAYers are honest folk selling something on their own.

Sorry again.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

 

[dianeschlicht]

I repeat, Ebay has big problems conected with it. They will not help either of these individuals.

Disneydiane

 

[vetteguy]

My point is that we had an agreement Cindy and I from last Thursday. She never explicitly said that she wanted to wait the auction end. We had a deal and from my point of view this deal was done. The first person bidding on ebay at that auction was me, I maybe better didn't but I was surprised to still find it on ebay. At the end of the auction, I have not bid 3 times to beat someone else, I put on ebay a high maximum bid price, that way I won the auction and she hadn't to worry for a higgest bidder interferring between our deal. I didn't came up with signing contracts, she did on friday.
From that moment, yes I asked several times why she didn't fax it to me. She joined a couple of e-mail we exchanged, fine why not all e-mails?
Maybe then, everybody could have a better opinion on our problem.
Somewhere, she must find that I'm in my right because I received yesterday an e-mail from her saying that, after reading all our e-mails her husband felt the same as I do that we had a deal.
I'm not poor Daniel from Belgium, my point is, and that's why I'm upset, when you've a deal it's a deal. You don't come up later with an other selling price.

 

[CRobin]

Enough said on this. While selling dolls, boats, or Pokemon cards, E-Bay may be a great deal. When you start getting into real estate transactions, think again.

For those who think they can save a buck (on the buying or on the selling side), just read this thread.

Me, I'll stick with a DVC direct or a legitimate broker.

Grand Floridian 1994
Yacht Club 1996-1999
Beach Club 2000
Old Key West 2001

 

[PamOKW]

CRobin I'm with you. This is an unfortunate incident for both sides but has nothing to do with DIS or DVC. Their problem should be handled elsewhere.

It is a lesson on the problems of doing business directly rather than through DVC or a legitimate broker. It's also addresses my point about arranging vacation transactions on E-Bay. If I were the purchaser, a small savings over what Disney charges wouldn't be worth the risk of problems arising.

 

[cindyroggin]

Go up a few people and look at Jenny's site she listed all three of my ebay auctions. Thank you. Jenny. Click on the old key west and then look immediately to the right at the bidders, click right next to bidder and it will show you the bidding as it happened. Dan Bid THREE times at the end of the bidding. and this JT was the one he as bidding against. JT Walked away from the BoardWalk Sale and Dan is walking away from his BID> Ebay can't do anything to either one of you except slap you on the hand and suppend you if you do business on ebay like this. Isn't it Ironic, the two high bidders took a hike. Thanks alot, who got the raw end here? Hello, whats wrong with this picture. Thanks People <IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused">
Do unto other as you would have the do to you.

What goes around comes around.
Hopefully, I have two new buyers after spending my entire day and half the nite talking on line to LEGIT people.

Cynthia M. Roggin

 

[PamOKW]

Cindy I know you are going through a stressful time with this sale. However, I hate to see you setting yourself up for possibly more trouble down the road. It is not a good practice to post a lot of personal information on public Web site boards. Folks totally unrelated to DIS troll boards looking for such opportunities. If you click on the icon of a note card and pencil you can go back and edit your posts. I know you are trying to show your honesty but it might be risky and unnecessary to be posting your home phone number. Just give it a thought.

 

[dianeschlicht]

THis has turned into a personal debate. I suggest it be taken elsewhere.

Disneydiane

 

[cindyroggin]

Pam and Robin, your right this does not belong here. I responed because someone on this site let me know what Dan was doing here. I love DVC I took my parents my friends, we have memories that will last forever. Hopefully after the illness in our family subsides my 6 year old recently had open heart surgery, and I was holding my father in MY arms when he died. But I will buy again. This certainly was a lesson well learned. I too will stay close to Disney for and Sale if I become a seller again or a buyer.
OKW 1993
OKW 1994
OKW 1995
OKW 1996
Vero 1996
Vero 1997 This was the last vacation with my Father god rest his soul.
I have transfered my points to others every year after that except in 1999 we went to OKW< BOARDWALK> And Vero. There is nothing like a Disney Vacation, Soon I hope to again Enjoy. Right now, life is really testing me. I am holding on with both hands.
Cindy

Cynthia M. Roggin

[This message was edited by cindyroggin on 03-01-01 at 09:32 AM.]

 

[cindyroggin]

Pam and Robin, your right this does not belong here. I responed because someone on this site let me know what Dan was doing here. I love DVC I took my parents my friends we have memories that will last forever. Hopefully after the illness in our family subsides I will buy again. This certainly was a lesson well learned. I too will stay close to Disney for buying and if I become a seller again or a buyer. After the last two weeks, I may just keep my points and continue to Transfer them to other DVC members to use. I gave another member 260 some points for him to enjoy a hugh family vacation this summer. Now that is what DVC members are about, not this garbage.
OKW 1993
OKW 1994
OKW 1995
OKW 1996
Vero 1996
Vero 1997 This was the last vacation with my Father god rest his soul.
I have transfered my points to others every year after that except in 1999 we went to OKW< BOARDWALK> And Vero. There is nothing like a Disney Vacation, Soon I hope to again Enjoy. Right now, life is really testing me. I am holding on with both hands. Perserverance pays, push on. Cindy
PS DAN< MY HUSBAND AND I COULD SEE WHERE THIS BECAME CONFUSING TO YOU SO THAT WAS THE REASON FOR THE EMAIL> IF YOU READ ABOVE I AGREED TO THE FACT THAT IT WAS CONFUSING YOU OPEND THE BID ON EBAY< I HAD TO COME TO YOU TO FIND THAT OUT YOU BID AS SOMEONE ELSE> I WAS TRYING TO STOP YOU FROM LOSING THE SALE< ONCE YOU BID MR> DAHL BID AND YOU CAN'T REMOVE A AUCTION ONCE THERE ARE BIDS> AS I TRIED TO EXPLAIN THROUGHOUT THIS PAST WEEK> <IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused">

Cynthia M. Roggin

 

[cindyroggin]

Pam and Robin, your right this does not belong here. I responed because someone on this site let me know what Dan was doing here. I love DVC I took my parents my friends we have memories that will last forever. Hopefully after the illness in our family subsides I will buy again. This certainly was a lesson well learned. I too will stay close to Disney for buying and if I become a seller again or a buyer. After the last two weeks, I may just keep my points and continue to Transfer them to other DVC members to use. I gave another member 260 some points for him to enjoy a hugh family vacation this summer. Now that is what DVC members are about, not this garbage.
OKW 1993
OKW 1994
OKW 1995
OKW 1996
Vero 1996
Vero 1997 This was the last vacation with my Father god rest his soul.
I have transfered my points to others every year after that except in 1999 we went to OKW< BOARDWALK> And Vero. There is nothing like a Disney Vacation, Soon I hope to again Enjoy. Right now, life is really testing me. I am holding on with both hands. Perserverance pays, push on. Cindy
PS DAN< MY HUSBAND AND I COULD SEE WHERE THIS BECAME CONFUSING TO YOU SO THAT WAS THE REASON FOR THE EMAIL WE Wanted to do what was right> IF YOU READ ABOVE I AGREED TO THE FACT THAT IT WAS CONFUSING YOU OPENED THE BID ON EBAY< I HAD TO COME TO YOU TO FIND THAT OUT YOU BID AS SOMEONE ELSE> I WAS TRYING TO STOP YOU FROM LOSING THE SALE< ONCE YOU BID MR> DAHL BID AND YOU CAN'T REMOVE A AUCTION ONCE THERE ARE BIDS> AS I TRIED TO EXPLAIN THROUGHOUT THIS PAST WEEK> <IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused">

Cynthia M. Roggin

 

[jennybobenny]

Not that anyone asked, but here's my take on this situation:

Dan saw Cindy's auction for 190 pts at OKW on ebay. The starting price was set at $10,100 so Dan bid $10,200. He was outbid so he countered with $10,700. At this point he must have offered Cindy $10,900 thru email. Cindy refused saying the auction was a "done deal". Dan misunderstood and thought "done deal" was referring to his offer. As the auction continues the bidding gets higher and higher. At 5am PST on the final day the bid was at $10,800. Five hours later the bid had climbed to $11,575. At this point Cindy emailed Dan and told him if he was still interested, he should bid or risk losing the auction. Dan, still thinking they had a deal at $10,900, thought Cindy meant for him to outbid everyone so he would be the winner and they could go back to their agreed upon price.

Here's where it gets confusing. Since Dan was trying to outbid everyone he set a bid price that was very high. Ebay will only increase a bid by $100. As the bidding continued each bid was countered by Dan's proxy bid. In the last few minutes there were 2 bidders who kept bidding higher and higher, but were still outbid by Dan. The winning bid was $12,450 and belonged to Dan.

My first thought was, ok who were the last minute bidders and do they have any relation to Cindy. There are unethical sellers who have friends bid on their auctions to drive up the final selling price. Did Cindy have a few friends keep bidding higher and higher knowing that Dan's proxy bid would outbid them? Ebay has recently changed their policy about showing members email addresses - you must now be involved in a transaction with someone in order to see their email address. Therefore it's impossible to compare Cindy's with the other 2 bidders. For what it's worth there are several people who bid on both auctions. As a matter of fact the winning bidder of the Boardwalk auction, the very next day bid on the OKW auction. What does that mean? Nothing. It looks a little fishy but there's nothing I can find (I even checked all available feedback) to tie any of the bidders in with Cindy.

Dan is saying that Cindy made a deal for the 190 OKW pts at $10,900 even though the auction was still in progress. In my opinion, it doesn't make any sense for a seller to put an item up for auction and then accept a price before the bidding is complete. The whole idea of having an auction is to sell the item for as high a price as possible. In the last minutes of the auction I find it hard to believe that Dan believed Cindy was asking him to outbid the other bidders so they could revert back to what he thought was the agreed upon price. Imagine selling an item on ebay but giving it to the middle bidder - it just doesn't make sense.

So if I were Judge Judy I'd side with Cindy. No offense Dan, I just think there were a few misunderstandings along the way.

<font face="Class Garmnd BT"><font color="ff69b4"><big>Jennybºoº benny</big></font>
<font color="9400d3">~~DVC Member~~
Onsite: Poly '76, Contemp '98, BWV '99, CBR '00, BWV '00, CBR '01
Offsite: '74 '80 '82 '88
Next trip: BWV~June '01, ASM/BWV~Nov '01</font>
Jillian & Kyle's Disney Character Website</font