5th theme park?

[dbm20th]

AV, my point was not to say that any of those things were going to happen, may happen, or even are ideas WDI is considering. It was only that one does not need to dream of a 5th gate to get excited about the future at WDW.

Everything they have added recently, (The Seas, Nemo Musical, Everest, Soarin, PoTC re-furb) have all been terrific. More additions of that quality is what WDW fans can get excited about. (...but please keep in mind that I don't expect this to excite you at all. I know better than that! )

 

[Another Voice]

The opposite in fact (you can't work in Hollywood unless you believe every project can be good given enough work).

But today Disney thinks that good P.R. is spreading false rumors. That somehow jazzing up the fan base is that same as actually presenting something that please people. It's a lot easier to tell the critics to shut-up about 'The Living Seas Overcome by Nemo' than it is to make a wonderful pavilion. And it's a lot easier to scream "BEASTLY KINGDOM might be IS COMING!!!!!!!!!" than it is to actually build it.

Everything they have added recently, (The Seas, Nemo Musical, Everest, Soarin, PoTC re-furb) have all been terrific.

Compared to recent offerings...well they're nice.

But where's the new 'Pirates' type masterpiece. Where is the innoviation? Where is the acctraction that will make Joe Tourist say "I never thought that was possible, I'm booking my trip now!".

No, all the tweaks you listed are minor changes and additions designed to please the huge herd of frequent visitors. It's "just enough" so they can say there's something new. But frankly - no one is going to get all that juiced by "Nemo: The Musical". It's nice, but nothing special.

Disney used to complete against entire vacation desitnations. Now they're content to just compete against your last visit.

 

[Disneybag]

Now they're content to just compete against your last visit.

And the people said "Amen."

 

[dbm20th]

Once again, AV's axe grinding is wrong.

To me, E:E provides a sensory experience and grandeur not offered anywhere else. The critics completely disagree with your feelings towards the Nemo musical, and the Seas completed a refurb of the Living Seas (along with Turtle Talk) that has turned this pavilion from a empty hall into a popular must see pavilion at FW and a good one at that.

If Everest is their version of "competing against my last visit", then that is exactly what I want them to do.

 

[MJMcBride]

Compared to recent offerings...well they're nice.

But where's the new 'Pirates' type masterpiece. Where is the innoviation? Where is the acctraction that will make Joe Tourist say "I never thought that was possible, I'm booking my trip now!".

No, all the tweaks you listed are minor changes and additions designed to please the huge herd of frequent visitors. It's "just enough" so they can say there's something new. But frankly - no one is going to get all that juiced by "Nemo: The Musical". It's nice, but nothing special.

Disney used to complete against entire vacation desitnations. Now they're content to just compete against your last visit.

The latest is better than "nice".

The best theme park experience you will have is the last visit you had to Disney. So if their objective is to beat the best, I say good.

 

[dbm20th]

The best theme park experience you will have is the last visit you had to Disney. So if their objective is to beat the best, I say good.

And that gets an amen from me

 

[Another Voice]

E:E provides a sensory experience and grandeur not offered anywhere else.

Except to those of us who have ridden 'The Materhorn' in the last three decades. Or those people who have ridden 'Big Thunder Mountain' in the last two. "Sensory experience and grandeur" - hardly. Even you know that's way, way beyond what this retail coaster on a hunk of concrete offers.

But if 'Expedition: Everest' is the grandest thing you've ever experienced than, dude, get out of your parent's basement and see the real world.

As for 'Nemo' - perhaps there are some that find it an improvement. It's hard to say that dumbing down looses more tourists than it gains. It's just too bad that Disney's level of effort - and their respect for their guests - is now so low that cartoons have to replace real science, real knowledge and real learning.

Yes, making education interesting is hard. That's why Real Disney created EPCOT Center - to challenge themselves and to reward the guests with something more meaningful than shiny bright lights.

Today neither Disney nor we, the audience, are challenged or generally thrilled anymore. All we get is the “above average” and the “slightly new” filled with a bunch of overblown corporate hype: “E:E provides a sensory experience and grandeur not offered anywhere else.”

That’s a really sad statement to make when you look at the history of the parks.

 

[dbm20th]

Except to those of us who have ridden 'The Materhorn' in the last three decades. Or those people who have ridden 'Big Thunder Mountain' in the last two. "Sensory experience and grandeur" - hardly. Even you know that's way, way beyond what this retail coaster on a hunk of concrete offers.

This is spoken from someone who's obviously never been on Expedition Everest. AV, are you kidding me? Big Thunder? The Matterhorn? This is a joke right? You don't actually compare the scope or experience of E:E with these quaint little coaster do you? You need to stop pretending to be the expert, find your way to Florida, and judge without your normal pre-determined point of view.

As far as the Seas is concerned, I don't see why it doesn't do both. TT and the new ride entertain, but the amazing aquarium and manatee exhibits offer some discovery. More needs to be done with the other exhibits not mentioned, but the improvement is there. A step in the right direction. (The last little circle around the tank was down-right boring, though the hydrolators were great.)

That’s a really sad statement to make when you look at the history of the parks.

No sir, comparing the experience of the Matterhorn or BTMRR with E:E is the sad statement.

It took you a bit longer to get to the personal insults AV! I'm very proud of you

 

[Another Voice]

AV, are you kidding me?

It's a rollercoaster stapled to a mound of concrete. It offers NOTHING new, unique, different, unseen, unimagined.

It's a sequel rollercoaster - taller, louder and faster than 'The Materhorn', but it's the same ride.

Name one element that's unique and offers a "grandeur not offered anywhere else.”

 

[dbm20th]

It's a rollercoaster stapled to a mound of concrete. It offers NOTHING new, unique, different, unseen, unimagined.

It's a sequel rollercoaster - taller, louder and faster than 'The Materhorn', but it's the same ride.

Name one element that's unique and offers a "grandeur not offered anywhere else.”

Instead of me naming it for you, why don't you "get out of your parent's basement" as you like to say, and go try it yourself. If you think it is the "same ride as the Matterhorn" or BTMRR then you clearly have not been on it.

 

[Another Voice]

Why should I fly all the way across the country to see a ride that's nothing but a copy of what I've been on a hundred times? There's nothing I see about 'E:E' that's anymore thrilling than anything at Disneyland, nor the Pasadena Freeway at rush hour for the most part (gee, we even have our own yeti's that are scarier than that unmoving figure WDW has).

So educate me - pretend I'm Joe Tourist planning my family's summer vacation. What is so special, what is so unique, what is so grand about 'Expeduition: Everest' that I should choose to another trip to WDW over all the other special, unique, and grand places on Earth.

Why should I spend my money to see 'E:E'?

 

[dbm20th]

Why should I fly all the way across the country to see a ride that's nothing but a copy of what I've been on a hundred times? There's nothing I see about 'E:E' that's anymore thrilling than anything at Disneyland, nor the Pasadena Freeway at rush hour for the most part (gee, we even have our own yeti's that are scarier than that unmoving figure WDW has).

So educate me - pretend I'm Joe Tourist planning my family's summer vacation. What is so special, what is so unique, what is so grand about 'Expeduition: Everest' that I should choose to another trip to WDW over all the other special, unique, and grand places on Earth.

Why should I spend my money to see 'E:E'?

So you pontificate, disagree and insult, and you've never been on the ride? And you want me to continue such a conversation? Strange, don't you think?

Like every great attraction, words don't do it justice. Like every amazing landscape, song, or book, it just isn't the same until you see it, hear it, or read it. And since you can't be bothered knowing what it is you argue about, trying to explain it to someone who is already convinced that it's nothing exciting is something of a waste of time. Go to WDW and enjoy.

 

[Another Voice]

And you want me to continue such a conversation? Strange, don't you think?

Hardly - I'm in the postion of 300 million other Americans, i.e. the average person who doesn't spend their day on Disney chat boards and really don't care about the company until they decide to go to visit.

And you've perfectly proved my point.

Why should anyone other than the already plugged in Disney fan (through DVC, annual passes or whatever) care about 'E:E'. You can't provide an answer.

Yes, the ride is a great roller coaster for people already going to WDW, but it lacks any scope - and grandeur - to attract new guests to WDW. Disney's efforts are focused on the small scale additions to keep the frequent visitors from becoming too bored, but they've given up the large, impressive rides that actually get people to book new trips.

You yourself can't come up with any reason why a normal person should see 'Everest' - just that's it bigger than similar rides that already exist. Wonderful for the repeat guest to kill a couple of minutes, but hardly "the grander that doesn't exist anywhere else".

That's the "but this one goes to 11" agruement that doesn't work in the real world.

 

[RobInBigKC]

It's a rollercoaster stapled to a mound of concrete. It offers NOTHING new, unique, different, unseen, unimagined.

Name one element that's unique and offers a "grandeur not offered anywhere else.”

For the first time in my life (after about 7 WDW visits), I am returning to WDW for the second time in the same calendar year (usually we go every 3 to 4 years) and EE is one of the reasons.

I have never been on another roller coaster where the train go backwards inside an admittedly fake mountain for almost a full 30 seconds.

I have never been on, nor do I know of, any other roller coaster where the track switches over from Route A to Route B during the ride so that you pass over different rails with their own distinct curves while you're in the same general area that you were before. (hard to describe the sensation) Yeah, it's just throwing a track switch like the railroads have done for over a 100 years but it makes for a pretty neat and unique effect on a coaster.

-- Rob

 

[raidermatt]

I've been on it. Its nice.

E:E provides a sensory experience and grandeur not offered anywhere else.

It uses shadow puppets and one cool animatronic, and it goes backwards.

Like I said, its nice, but your comments aren't even shared by most of its fans.

Don't get me wrong, its not a debacle like M:S, but its a heckuva lot closer to the Matterhorn than it is to what you are describing.

We've been through the issues with Soarin' and the Pirates refurb.

Haven't yet seen the terrific new Living Seas with the boarded up aquarium exhbits (shouldn't you be able to see those before you call it terrific?), so I won't comment. I did see Turtle Talk, and its cute.

Haven't seen the Nemo Musical, so won't comment on that either.

Bottom line is it all depends on what you are looking for with regard to WDW. The new stuff is fun. No argument. However a Disney company that retained the soul and spirit it once had would be capable of much more.

 

[raidermatt]

Yeah, it's just throwing a track switch like the railroads have done for over a 100 years but it makes for a pretty neat and unique effect on a coaster.

-- Rob

Point taken, but is that really "grandeur"?

 

[tiggerwannabe]

Wow...this conversation's totally gone off it's own track

Hardly - I'm in the postion of 300 million other Americans, i.e. the average person who doesn't spend their day on Disney chat boards and really don't care about the company until they decide to go to visit.

So you pontificate, disagree and insult, and you've never been on the ride? And you want me to continue such a conversation? Strange, don't you think?

 

[dbm20th]

Hardly - I'm in the postion of 300 million other Americans, i.e. the average person who doesn't spend their day on Disney chat boards and really don't care about the company until they decide to go to visit.

If that were the case, I would be more than happy to provide you the answers. But that's not the case. You are a person who has formulated an opinion and you have no reasons for them that are valid.

And you've perfectly proved my point.

Why should anyone other than the already plugged in Disney fan (through DVC, annual passes or whatever) care about 'E:E'. You can't provide an answer.

Of course I can come up with many answers, and you can draw whatever conclusions you want, but I am just not interested in debating with someone unfamiliar with the topic. Sorry.

That's the "but this one goes to 11" agruement that doesn't work in the real world.

And one that I have not made, yet you still seem to be debating it. I guess since you have absolutely no frame of reference with which to debate, I should expect nothing less. Come to think of it, you also haven't seen the Nemo musical, the new ride, or anything else that I named. (Perhaps you've seen the Pirates stuff, but I can't be sure of that now) Why again are you discussing this?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with E:E, Soarin, Nemo (either of them), Crush, the Pirates update. They are nice, fun, GREAT EVEN and I wholeheartedly AGREE with their implementation, as I did to Dinorama initially. There is nothing wrong with these appeasements but they DO need to be teamed with something that will make you say "WOW" and mean it! I mean E:E is a 'wow' ride but it's mostly the heretofore unfelt backwards movement that does it (a coaster effect). Otherwise it's a nice, tame coaster that has a computerized track change (not a big deal in this day and age).

Where oh where is the innovation that was felt when Indy was unleasehed or Spiderman at Universal? I know Toyko has a couple so it can still be done but we get a Materhorn update and some of you applaud uproarishly??? Don't you want to feel the Wow? Don't you long for the ride that leaves your expectations in the dust? That leaves your mouth grinning so widely you look like you've just accidently stumbled into the women's locker room at the spa on model's get in free day?

Soarin' was very, very close but they just didn't finish it off. Great things can be accomplished and good things can be appreciated but lets try to not confuse good and great.

 

[dbm20th]

Soarin' was very, very close but they just didn't finish it off. Great things can be accomplished and good things can be appreciated but lets try to not confuse good and great.

But the problem is that everyone's definition of good and great are slightly different, don't you think? E:E is a wow. It's the first coaster that has wowed me with everything from construction, to theme, to story, to ride, and on and on. That's great. I believe Soarin is too. But none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand.

The point I was making is that things are looking up. Change has come to WDW, and there is no need to look for a 5th gate to be excited about the possibilties