"500 Kingdoms" -- CAVEAT EMPTOR!

[htmlkid]

Although I didn't sign up I got mailer that said Congratulations! You've take the first steps towards decades of affordable vacations at DVC Resorts plus over 500 Member Getaways around the world and that DVC gives you the flexability to stay where you want for how long you want. Although this is not a fable, I wish they would just disclose how hard is would be to book one of those other 500 getaways!!!!!

 

[crisi]

We certainly didn't pay $140 per point. Your math assumptions are slightly off.

Our present value cost analysis of our Aulani pts shows that we are paying $245 per night for ocean view/front studio at a top tier quality hotel. Some of the timeshares we have stayed do not compare in quality and cost the same or more.

For me, I like my DVC for Disney, but we've gotten some nice cash deals where points would be more. We stayed on Maui this year at Kaanapali in a one bedroom ocean view for $205 a night over Spring Break. Nice timeshares. Unit was a little dated in its decorations - but so is OKW. Public areas had been recently redone though, and the landscaping was top notch. Hawaii is one of those places that is so overbuilt that there is usually a good deal if you aren't going at a peak time.

For that matter, so is Orlando if you don't mind being offsite. If you have to be onsite, DVC might not be a bad deal.

The other thing is that DVC is fairly restrictive. We didn't want to go to Oahu. We wanted to go to Maui. If you want to be where DVC puts its resorts, its a good deal. If you are depending on RCI trades to get you to where you want to be, you are better off with cash or a timeshare in a better system.

 

[bumbershoot]

The one bed room was desperate for a refit. I cried when I first saw it. I was just so disappointed.

That was just about my mom's reaction when they went to an RCI resort in the Bahamas for her and my stepdad's honeymoon. It was just a dump.

And they OWNED RCI.

They had that experience, and I'm not sure what they did for the next few years, but then they tried to get me a spot at one of the very few places they have in Ireland, for my grad school graduation trip, and were unsuccessful. Again, they owned RCI, and couldn't make it work.

They sold RCI immediately after that experience.

Now I'll concede that this all happened in the late 80s and mid 90s and things might have gotten better for owners...but it really doesn't sound like it, and it sounds almost exactly the same for DVC people trying to trade in to the RCI system now...

 

[backyardponder]

Although I didn't sign up I got mailer that said Congratulations! You've take the first steps towards decades of affordable vacations at DVC Resorts plus over 500 Member Getaways around the world and that DVC gives you the flexability to stay where you want for how long you want. Although this is not a fable, I wish they would just disclose how hard is would be to book one of those other 500 getaways!!!!!

"Where you want for how long you want" is great news! I've been on a waitlist for about a year for a 1BR on the Gulf Side of Florida in January or February.

FYI, there's only one resort on the gulf side with 1BR, Eagle's Nest. I've about given up and will probably cancel my waitlist and make other plans. Whenever I talk to MS they offer me something on the Atlantic Side. My response is if I wanted Atlantic Side, I'd stay at Vero Beach. Earlier today I wrote a note to MS expressing my dissatisfaction.

 

[JimMIA]

Now I'll concede that this all happened in the late 80s and mid 90s and things might have gotten better for owners...but it really doesn't sound like it,

I'm sure RCI has improved over where they were 20-30 years ago. They currently have more than 6,500 resorts worldwide, but of course, most of those will not be DVC quality.

and it sounds almost exactly the same for DVC people trying to trade in to the RCI system now...

DVC owners face two obstacles with RCI trades. One is that they have to learn a completely different system of timeshare usage -- a system which is much more complex than DVC. If all a DVC owner does is call MS, they're really not using the system the right way. Unless they get incredibly lucky, they're not going to be successful with that approach.

The second factor is the limited number of resorts you have access to through DVC/RCI -- less than 600 of those 6,500+.

Backyardponder's experience is a great example of that problem. They're looking for a timeshare exchange in an area of Florida that has literally hundreds of timeshares...but DVC has access to only ONE of those. They are using the RCI system the right way (using an ongoing search), but they're trying to go during peak tourist season and they've been unsuccessful for almost a full year.

Yet, when I search RCI using my Wyndham account I find four 1 BR choices -- one on Marco Island, one on Longboat Key (Sarasota), and two in the Tampa Bay area. And those are available for booking right now, for Jan-Feb 2012 -- just 7 months from now. I didn't check further out, but I'm sure there is more availability the further out you go.

The problem with "500 Kingdoms" is that the kingdoms are mythical.

 

[disneypoor]

Even setting aside potential difficulties with booking RCI exchanges, DVC purchasers will eventually become very disillusioned with this product if they are buying in at these very high prices thinking that they will often want to exchange through RCI. Wait until people discover the various websites where you can rent a week almost any RCI resort for less than many are paying in yearly dues for DVC. Makes absolutely no financial sense.

I personally question why people will want to buy in to DVC at all at $140 per point. The cost of buying in has increased dramatically while the cost of rental has remained stagnant. In Hawaii you can rent a week in a 2-bedroom ocean view at the nicest timeshares out there (Westin Kanaapali on Maui, any of the new Marriott Vacation Clubs, etc.) for anywhere from $1500-$3000 depending on when you go and who you rent from. I have done it several times. Buying a week's worth of points at an ocean view in Aulani 2-bedroom will be a financial output of $50,000 or more plus probably $1800 a year in dues. I think the price point has gotten out of hand for the value, compared to what you can easily rent out there.

We are staying at Westin Kaanapali next spring break and paid $3500 for our 1 BR. However, it's ocean front and not ocean view, and that was important to me. We just recently bought in to DVC, and although I saw that the Westin Kaanapali was listed in the RCI exchanges, I knew it would be way too late to try to book it, and I had already paid for our 1 BR long before we bought in.

I will likely be one of the sad DVCers when I do go to try to book an RCI exchange some day because that was also part of the reason why I wanted to go with DVC. I'm just hoping if I'm a long range planner that we'll get something some day. We didn't purchase for RCI, but like someone else posted, it was posed to us on our cruise that being able to use RCI was a wonderful benefit of owning DVC, and it got my hopes up. Our salesman made it all sound so easy and appealing. He also stressed that all of the exchanges have to meet "Disney Quality" so you know you will be staying somewhere that meets Disney standards. He said if you're a long range planner, you should be able to get something (like two years out). Time will tell.....Are there very many DVCers that have had great experiences with RCI exchanges?

Susan

 

[Brian Noble]

That's not entirely wrong, Susan. If you are planning one to two years out, you stand a pretty good chance, providing you are at least a little bit flexible about destination and/or date. And, the "quality" issue is one of the reasons DVC filters its resort set---not everything in the set is quite as nice as some of the newer DVC resorts, but the ones I've stayed in that are "in" are generally pretty comfortable and well-kept.

But, keep in mind: it will usually be the case that "market rents" for most of the RCI options (i.e. what you'd have to pay an owner for a reservation) are significantly below market rents for DVC. So, you are almost always better off renting out DVC for cash, using the cash to rent the lodging you want, and putting the excess to some other use. There are a few exceptions, but they are truly exceptions.

 

[disneypoor]

That's not entirely wrong, Susan. If you are planning one to two years out, you stand a pretty good chance, providing you are at least a little bit flexible about destination and/or date. And, the "quality" issue is one of the reasons DVC filters its resort set---not everything in the set is quite as nice as some of the newer DVC resorts, but the ones I've stayed in that are "in" are generally pretty comfortable and well-kept.

But, keep in mind: it will usually be the case that "market rents" for most of the RCI options (i.e. what you'd have to pay an owner for a reservation) are significantly below market rents for DVC. So, you are almost always better off renting out DVC for cash, using the cash to rent the lodging you want, and putting the excess to some other use. There are a few exceptions, but they are truly exceptions.

Thank you for your response, Brian. So, how do people normally go about renting out their DVC for cash? Is there a site people use? I can definitely see the benefit to doing it that way. Like I had posted, I paid a ridiculous amount for our 1BR at Westin Kaanapali, so I'm sure I paid my renter's annual dues and several payments, but that's okay. I knew that going in to it, and once I called the resort directly, I found out that the only way to get ocean front was to rent someone's time share who owned there. I'll be grateful I did it next March when my family is watching the waves roll in from our lanai.

I guess when we purchased, I went in to it with the attitude that some years I will most definitely get my moneys worth and some years I won't with DVC depending on what we do for vacation. However, with time, I'm sure we'll get our moneys worth. I'm looking at the big picture and not year to year. Maybe that wasn't the best way to look at it, but I mostly wanted it for our children to make sure that they can travel with their own families some day on mom and dad. We think traveling together as a family is important, so we thought this would be a good gift to give to them to help them out as they become adults with their own children. We've been fortunate enough to have taken them on some awesome vacations, and somehow, Disney always seems to be the ongoing theme, so I think eventually our DVC will be money well spent. Plus, I want to be able to take my extended family and my grandchildren some day, and DVC allows me to stay in larger, more accomodating resorts that I wouldn't normally book. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

And, if my children grow up and end up not liking Disney, it looks like mom and dad will be taking WDW trips without the kids!

Susan

 

[Brian Noble]

As for renting: it's a modest amount of work. You can market it yourself (e.g. on the DISboards Rent/Trade section), or there are a few services that act as matchmaker for you.

More broadly, there are definitely two components to any timeshare purchase: it's a financial decision, and a lifestyle decision.

All things considered, my guess is that most people ultimately spend *more* on vacation lodging once they are timeshare owners rather than less, compared to "life without timeshare". I think we probably do. Sure, if you only buy as many points as you'd need to stay in studio units for exactly as many nights as you spend in Disney's hotels right now, on a long-term average basis, it actually *is* cheaper. But, most people don't do that. They go a little more often, or they decide that really, studios aren't much fun, and villas are much nicer, and so on.

At the same time, if you add up all the costs in a timeshare, and compare it to what you could have rented the same number of nights in the same style of lodging conventionally, you are "saving money." It's very similar to the dining plan. Most families, left to their own devices, probably would not spend quite as much money eating in Disney parks and restaurants as the appropriate dining plan costs. But, as long as you use all of your entitlements, you are "saving money" vs. what the same food would have cost on menu prices.

So, the decision comes down to one of lifestyle---do you want to vacation more, in more spacious lodging? If so, timeshare can be a way to do that with reasonable costs. You put it right when you say "get your money's worth". You aren't necessarily saving money, but you are probably getting decent value.

The only part where I disagree---at least a little---is the idea of doing this for my kids post-adulthood. Lodging is only a small component of the cost of a typical vacation. You have to get there. You have to take the time off of work. You have to pay for food, and probably entertainment too. I don't know about you, but when I was getting started, you could have given me lodging at WDW for free, and I still would have had a hard time taking a vacation there---at first because I didn't have much money, and later because I didn't have much time.

 

[shalom]

I don't know about you, but when I was getting started, you could have given me lodging at WDW for free, and I still would have had a hard time taking a vacation there---at first because I didn't have much money, and later because I didn't have much time.

Vacations were totally not on our radar before we bought into timesharing for pretty much this reason. But I think if my parents had offered us the opportunity to stay in a DVC unit for free, and been able to work with our schedule, we would have done it, however we would have mostly eaten food we cooked in the unit and not paid for park tickets. Which would have been a great vacation for us (anything that got us out of the house and our daily routine was a great vacation back then -- let alone access to Downtown Disney and touring the WDW resorts and stuff), and we would have loved hanging out with everybody by the pool and visiting and all, but that's perhaps not the family vacation Susan has in mind.

Mind you, we always tried to visit family about once a year, so while we didn't vacation, we were traveling back then. If my parents had lived in the same town and offered us a Disney vacation, we wouldn't have done it.

 

[disneypoor]

I have no idea what type of vacation I have in mind for my kids. I don't even like to think about the fact that both of my children are teenagers and won't be living at home with us for that many more years. My husband always tells me that they will come home for vacations though.

We just bought, and I figure we will be using our membership on our own for many years to come. Whether that is with our kids, with our kids and their families some day, or just the two of us, we'll vacation. My thought on the whole giving it to the kids thing was for a long ways down the road--once they're more established with their own families and such. I don't foresee my husband and I not wanting to use the membership ourselves for many, many years to come. We're getting old, but not that old! Plus, I like the thought of being able to take my children and their families on a vacation if they want to go with us in the future. That's more of a reason why the DVC was appealing to me--to allow us to stay in larger accomodations for years to come and then to be able to allow others to use our membership as we get older and no longer want to travel like we do now (if that ever happens). Does that make sense or am I just rambling now?

Susan

 

[JLS]

Susan (and others looking to rent), I absolutely agree with the advice given in this thread that in almost all situations, unless you hit the jackpot with an exchange, it is far better to rent out your DVC points and then rent a timeshare from an owner where you want to stay (non-DVC) than it is to try to work the exchange system. I have done this several times and it has been very successful. And there are a few very reliable websites out there where you can find a huge variety of nice timeshares for rent by owner on a weekly basis. We leave for Oahu on Sunday and we are renting a 1 bedroom at the Marriott Ko Olina for about the same amount (for the week) as my yearly DVC dues (this is the resort that is right next door to Aulani). The equivalent stay at Aulani when it opens would have cost vastly more. We rented some of our Beach Club Villas points to pay for this trip and had points left over for another trip.