3rd Ship?

[myfairygodmother]

I was on the Magic last week and had the pleasure of speaking at length with a CM who is in a supervisory role on the ship. This CM stated that Disney is in the planning stages for a 3rd ship. They have polled CM's on possible itineraries one of which is a mediteranian cruise. Nothing has been finalized as of this time-everything is just in the planning stages.

 

[floridaminnie]

Does anybody know what the United States LInes is. I've never heard of them and they have two big ships being built.

 

[TnRobin]

United States Lines went bankrupt last year. They were the only major cruise line to have US Registered Ships, thus they could sail exclusively in US waters if they so wished. (All other ships must go to a foreign port during the cruises.) They offered 7 day Hawaiian Cruise which visited the island exclusively. Before declaring Bankruptcy they had commentioned two new ships to be built in the US. (If you wish to have a US registered vessel, it must be built in US waters)

 

[IrishCowboy]

I tend to agree with Werner Weiss. Given Disney's current financial status, I don't seem them building another ship for a few years.

I hope I'm wrong!

 

[mcoverv]

I was on the Magic for the 9-7 to 9-14 cruise. We went to the Making of the Magic talk and this question came up. The official statement is that they have picked a committee to decide if a new ship is needed. This committee will also decide the iternary for the first year of that ship (if there is one). When deciding to build the Magic the committee took 2 years to finish their plans. Then it took 2 years to build that her. They also stated that since both ships have been in commission that they have had all cabins booked 97% ( the decline being because of Sept 11, 2001)of the time and that in all likely hood a new ship would happen. But I would not look for a new ship to launch for at least 3 years.

 

[tstobb]

From page 56 of the 2001 annual report;

"2001 vs. 2000 Revenues increased 3%, or $195 million, to $7.0
billion, driven primarily by growth of $278 million at the Disneyland
Resort, $44 million from Disney Cruise Line and $20 million in
higher royalties from Tokyo Disneyland, partially offset by a decrease of $187 million at the Walt Disney World Resort."

OK, me, as an investor, I want more investment in the cruise line. That 44million is an increase from last year, not a total. From 2000 vs. 1999, the growth was $129 million from Disney Cruise Line, "reflecting full-year operations from both cruise ships, the Disney Magic and the Disney Wonder, compared to just the Disney Magic for the first three and a half quarters of the prior year"

Even at 400 million+ for construction, the untapped market for a Disney cruise (our 9/7 dinner companions were from CA - can you say West Coast Land & Sea?) would produce a quick ROI.

Send the Magic to California (I'll be 1st in line to sign up for a DCL ride thru the Panama Canal!) & bring on the Disney Dream!

 

[disneyholic family]

tstobb..
that's a meaningless number...
we need to know what the contribution to profits (or losses) was...

to say that they contributed x amount to revenues tells me nothing...
i need to know how much their expenses were.....or what the bottom line was.....(that is, did their expenses exceed their revenues)....

 

[tstobb]

Well, take a look at statements from Carnival Corp, the "the world's largest and most profitable cruise company":


"MIAMI, Jun 20, 2002 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- Carnival Corporation (NYSE: CCL) reported net income of $194.2 million ($0.33 Diluted EPS) on revenues of $989.2 million for its second quarter ended May 31, 2002, compared to net income of $187.0 million ($0.32 Diluted EPS) on revenues of $1.08 billion for the same quarter in 2001.
Net income for the six months ended May 31, 2002 was $323.8 million ($0.55 Diluted EPS) on revenues of $1.89 billion, compared to net income of $314.9 million ($0.54 Diluted EPS) on revenues of $2.09 billion for the same period in 2001."

Cruising is a profitable business if the ships are filled & judging from recent reports (and a very recent cruise!), DCL is filling the ships. I, too, would like to see DCL split from the Parks & Resorts on the balance sheet.

 

[Willowwind]

I agree with disneyholic family, we need a bigger picture than that. With those numbers it also looks like DL/DCA is doing a bang up job, but with all the fiscal output for DCA and the less than stellar numbers that it's bringing in, it just ain't so.

*However* Taking a ship to LA offers the potential for the Land/Sea packages and could very well boost those DL/DCA numbers that have been hurting.

 

[randytenn]

On our 9/7/02 Magic cruise, Capt. Tom said that no plans had been made to build a new ship. He indicated he believed another one would be built, but that there was nothing in the works.

Also, cruise staff member John brought up a good point. It would take several years to build a new ship, if it were exactly like the Magic and Wonder. But why would Disney not build a bigger and better boat? I'm sure there are changes they would like to make, so you now have to add in the design time (which was 2 years on the Magic). I have personal doubts that Disney would just build a third copycat boat.

Alas, I tend to believe that there are no new boats in the near future.

 

[Señor Ferrari]

Originally posted by TnRobin
United States Lines went bankrupt last year. They were the only major cruise line to have US Registered Ships, thus they could sail exclusively in US waters if they so wished. (All other ships must go to a foreign port during the cruises.) They offered 7 day Hawaiian Cruise which visited the island exclusively. Before declaring Bankruptcy they had commentioned two new ships to be built in the US. (If you wish to have a US registered vessel, it must be built in US waters)

Not really related to DCL, but perhaps interesting if you're into the shipbuilding process, as I am. There's more to the saga of the failed "Project America", which is what this ill-fated adventure was called.

The parent company of United States Lines was American Classic Voyages (AMCV). They also owned American Hawaii Lines, as well as a river steamboat line. US Lines and American Hawaii each had one ship. American Hawaii's was the SS Independence, which was an old transatlantic ship, built probably in the 60's. The US Lines ship was the SS Patriot, which was originally HAL's Nieuw Amsterdam. AMCV cut a deal with congress to allow the Patriot to be American-flagged, while they agreed to order two new ships from Ingalls yard in Mississippi. The Patriot was recently sold at auction, I believe to Carnival Corp, which owns Holland America. I think the SS Independence may have been scrapped.

The company went out of business while the first ship was under construction. Recently, Norwegian Cruise Lines bought the hull from Ingalls and is (I believe) currently in the process of towing it across the Atlantic to another shipyard (I think it is Meyer-Werft in Germany) to be completed. The second ship was not yet started, so the shipyard sold the materials which had already been purchased.

Sorry for straying off-topic, but I guess this is somewhat related to this discussion....

 

[Mjasp]

Didn't Renaissance go bankrupt also. Maybe they will be buying one of their ships, also United States Line, were both their ships bought already. Thus the talk of the 3rd ship without building one. Oh, and how so much cheaper I'm sure they will be.

 

[Willowwind]

Mjasp - I don't think that they'd go that route. I mean the Disney Rooms are larger than most cruise ship rooms. Disney needs to control every aspect of a ship to make the experience ooze that Soma. Isn't that why they broke with Premier?

And really, I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Señor Ferrari]

Originally posted by Mjasp
Didn't Renaissance go bankrupt also. Maybe they will be buying one of their ships, also United States Line, were both their ships bought already. Thus the talk of the 3rd ship without building one. Oh, and how so much cheaper I'm sure they will be.

Renaissance did go bankrupt last fall. Their ships were reposessed by the banks that held the notes on them, with the exception of the two in Tahiti, which were held in Papeete harbor because the line owed the port authority a large chunk of cash. I believe that they've now all been purchased.

P&O Cruises bought the two which were in Tahiti, the R3 and R4. They have become the (new) Pacific Princess, which will sail Alaska, Hawaii, Tahiti and Australia, and the Tahitian Princess, which will sail Tahiti year round. The others are in Europe, I believe. As I said, I'm pretty sure that they've all been leased or purchased, but none by Disney. I'm sure I would have remembered that. In any case, the Renaissance ships are quite a bit smaller than the Magic or Wonder. They hold about 700 passengers.

The AMCV ships have been accounted for. Patriot (the former HAL Nieuw Amsterdam) was bought back by Carnival. I believe the SS Indepedence was sold for scrap. It was something like 40 years old. The two new "Project America" ships were never built. As I said above, the hull of the one was bought by NCL. Construction was never begun on the second ship.

 

[disneyholic family]

pretty much unrelated to anything...
i sailed on a United States Lines ship before it was a cruise line...
when it was a transatlantic carrier....
we sailed on the Cunard Lines Queen Mary from New York to Southampton, England....
and then 3 months later we sailed back from Le Havre, France to New York on the United States Lines SS United States......that was a very difficult voyage.....really bad weather conditions....it makes me wonder how these cruise ships make it across in bad weather....
anyway....that was in 1963 and i was 7 years old (and had the run of both ships....there weren't many children on those ships in those days...all adults.......and me.....memories)