2021 Point Reallocation

[skier_pete]

This probably has been asked or answered, I did look at the thread but may have missed it. When I bought in 1997 we were told that the total number of points will not change each year, but according to the charts shared it has. How can DVC add more points to the year?

They didn't change the number of points, just reallocated seasons. Totally legit.

I have to say after reviewing the changes i don't know that had disne y asked me to reallocate i would've done much different. I probably would have made early December higher, but they can only shift points by a certain percent each year, so it's possible they may still increase that season more. But overall they raised the highest demand times and lowered the lowest.demand times, what more could you ask for in terms of fairness. (It certainly won't make all owners happy, but there you go.

 

[DisneyBB]

To which charts are you referring to?
This year the changes are legit, the total number of points to book each room type over the whole year hasn't changed (actually it has changed by a 0.x% but that's within acceptable variance).

I was looking at the charts someone shared on this thread. Think I may be reading it wrong then.

 

[Chuck S]

Remember, for the total points on the chart, it isn;t just adding up the points as they show on the chart. You have to take the points, multiply them by the number of days in each season, then add up those products.

 

[drusba]

There is an exception to the above. DVC has decreased the points needed for every room most of the year in the 2021 VGC point charts, with no offsetting increases on the chart. I wait with bated breath for DVC's explanation of that one.

And adding: be aware that DVC has apparently done a move of points from one-sized room to another at Aulani: it lowered hotel rooms for premier season while raising Ocean View GV's for Magic season; the rest of the point chart remains unchanged. It is a change that makes little sense because hotel rooms typically book at 11 months out year round while Ocean View GVs are open at 7 months out much of the year.

 

[skier_pete]

Remember, for the total points on the chart, it isn;t just adding up the points as they show on the chart. You have to take the points, multiply them by the number of days in each season, then add up those products.

So I think I posted this earlier - but I did this for BWV. Total points 2020: 4905875. Total points 2021: 4893840. I also checked that they didn't increase "phantom" points from the lock-off premium. All fell within reasonable numbers.

 

[BillPA]

2020 has 1 extra day, leap year. So the small reduction cold be that 1 day.

 

[drusba]

2020 has 1 extra day, leap year. So the small reduction cold be that 1 day.

Point charts and actual total points are based on a designated base year that does not include Feb 29. Any changes do not consider the existence of Feb 29. In the past, point charts have never changed because of leap year. If you do a total point count analysis by counting points per day per room in a leap year, you will usually get a total count somewhat higher than other years, but that is not an official count. And you also get variances because, in one year, a particular season may have an extra weekend night in it different from the prior year. And those doing that counting now comparing 2020 to 2021 point charts for WDW resorts will necessarily find variances between 2020 and 2021, but as you mention that is acceptable

But as to VGC, the total change is not a small reduction but a reduction for much of the year for all rooms, and there are increases nowhere. Though 2020 is a leap year, its point chart is the same one that has existed at VGC for many years. The new one is a major change that decreases points much of the year for all rooms with no increases.

I can think of no explanation except that the draft 2021 VGC point chart is wrong and will be changed back before it becomes the official chart, but maybe DVC can explain it.

 

[JWhiz]

I’m a little late to the discussion as I have been traveling. I have one of those really specific situations that may not affect most. But for me, I lost two months of possible vacation times. I have two smaller contracts that were enough for a three night trip staying in a one bedroom villa and BWV or BLT. Now with these changes, similar to last year’s proposed, I went from being able to schedule a trip anytime from September through January (holidays excepted) to not being able to book in October or November. It sucks.

 

[Judique]

I’m a little late to the discussion as I have been traveling. I have one of those really specific situations that may not affect most. But for me, I lost two months of possible vacation times. I have two smaller contracts that were enough for a three night trip staying in a one bedroom villa and BWV or BLT. Now with these changes, similar to last year’s proposed, I went from being able to schedule a trip anytime from September through January (holidays excepted) to not being able to book in October or November. It sucks.

I have a similar situation in that I have 4 contracts earmarked for particular usages, but I can still book what I want, but it's just going to cost me more than this year. A standard view studio in early November has been my go to for a number of years. It was 78 points for a week. Next year (2021) = 90 points - or one day of vacation less. 12 point difference.

So I went back to my book of information from when I first purchased. I was at first quite disturbed by the 12 point difference. I purchased in 2000. Back then a standard view studio was 87 points. Somewhere along the line, a prior reallocation had helped me, but since a few years back with younger kids, I was doing holiday periods, Xmas and Easter. And less nights. So I really wasn't paying a lot of attention. I also reminded myself that I had bought because of the flexibility of the system - in other words - expect changes, but not illegal ones.

I also like to go in January or early February. Back then, January was 85 points. Recently it was 76 points for the same week. Now it's 78 in 2021. In February it is 104 for the week. Not much difference but down from 107 in 2000. So there are my 3 points from increased Nov.

Anyway, they had food and wine back then and it was busy until the festival ended. I don't see a whole lot of difference other than now everyone wants my resort for this festival and for the marathons. I almost wished they had left the weekends at double points - maybe they will go back there. Hint Hint to those reading from DVC - cheap weekdays - expensive weekends - those that book a week will get the same deal they have. Those that speculate will pay more to profit from renting out weekend nights.

The days left seem to always be Tuesdays and maybe Wednesdays. Look at Moonlight Magic, almost always on Tuesdays.

One thing is for certain, it's highly unlikely I'll switch to June, July, August or September - too hot to be in a park - I've done it when I had to for school schedules, but those days are done.

And bottom line, I don't think reallocation will change much. Just busy work for the new DVC management to look like they are paying attention.

Last but not least, thanks to the watch dogs that kept an eye out for wrongful changes and successfully intervened. That's another story altogether trying to create more points. Again, I attribute that to newer people in power (after all DVC has been around since the early 90ties) - the original creators and idea makers should be long retired - who may not truly understand the system or their membership.

 

[skier_pete]

2021 point charts show is up. Those that were involved in the 2020 points chart craziness may get a kick out of the discussion as well:

https://dvcfan.com/2019/12/16/dvc-show-2021-point-charts/

 

[sethschroeder]

I find it hard to believe the summer school break period is only Tier 4/5.......but school winter break is higher? Other than Xmas, I cant see summer being anything less than the second most popular time to go.

Except when does a DVC member who travels every year want to go?

During a time that is the hottest with zero special events? Or during holidays with special parties and better weather?

Oh and don't forget many people say Disney does Christmas better than anyone out there.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I find it hard to believe the summer school break period is only Tier 4/5.......but school winter break is higher? Other than Xmas, I cant see summer being anything less than the second most popular time to go.

Except when does a DVC member who travels every year want to go?

During a time that is the hottest with zero special events? Or during holidays with special parties and better weather?

Oh and don't forget many people say Disney does Christmas better than anyone out there.

I don't have any information to back this up other than gauging from social media, but it seems that the demographics of DVC tend to lean older. This is probably because of the barrier to entry (reasonably substantial capital). Older generally means no school-aged children. No school-aged children probably means less likely to book during high cost, high heat, crowded, and no special event seasons.

 

[zavandor]

2021 point charts show is up. Those that were involved in the 2020 points chart craziness may get a kick out of the discussion as well:

https://dvcfan.com/2019/12/16/dvc-show-2021-point-charts/

Well done.

Any plan to talk about the reallocation across units? I agree the lockoff premium was the prime problem last year and there isn't enough time to talk about everything in a show, so focusing on that was a good idea. But we still don't know an exact answer to the question: can DVC reallocate the points for bungalows or the THV again? For someone contempating buying points at CCV or Poly it is vital to know.

 

[crvetter]

Well done.

Any plan to talk about the reallocation across units? I agree the lockoff premium was the prime problem last year and there isn't enough time to talk about everything in a show, so focusing on that was a good idea. But we still don't know an exact answer to the question: can DVC reallocate the points for bungalows or the THV again? For someone contempating buying points at CCV or Poly it is vital to know.

Hopefully there is some discussion on that. As the lockoff premium is a symptom of reallocating across unit types or a byproduct of no dedicated studios or 1 bedrooms. So I agree the question is can they reallocate across unit types or without dedicated studios is DVC correct in their assertion that they can increase the points YOY without limit (except the 20% change yearly) to the total points in that unit type for the year (and doesn't effect the total points for the resort since that is considered with lockoffs booked as 2 bedrooms)? Though I consider these a bit more advanced topics and a show meant to introduce people to DVC topics, I think a good job was done in explaining some of the issues in 2020's original point charts.

 

[Bing Showei]

Hopefully there is some discussion on that. As the lockoff premium is a symptom of reallocating across unit types or a byproduct of no dedicated studios or 1 bedrooms. So I agree the question is can they reallocate across unit types or without dedicated studios is DVC correct in their assertion that they can increase the points YOY without limit (except the 20% change yearly) to the total points in that unit type for the year (and doesn't effect the total points for the resort since that is considered with lockoffs booked as 2 bedrooms)? Though I consider these a bit more advanced topics and a show meant to introduce people to DVC topics, I think a good job was done in explaining some of the issues in 2020's original point charts.

Before the show we had exactly this conversation with Pete, discussing the legal definition of a unit/vacation home; I even brought up Zavandor’s findings around the removal of a unit from the system due to irreparable destruction to said unit. It was decided it was too in the weeds for this platform, unfortunately.

ETA- we probably would not have been well versed enough to speak to it to the degree the topic would deserve. Additionally, this would involve a conversation around the THV reallocation and potentially the SSR view and BWV view issue as well (which I can’t help but feel plays into the whole reversal in the 2021 charts).

 

[skier_pete]

Well done.

Any plan to talk about the reallocation across units? I agree the lockoff premium was the prime problem last year and there isn't enough time to talk about everything in a show, so focusing on that was a good idea. But we still don't know an exact answer to the question: can DVC reallocate the points for bungalows or the THV again? For someone contempating buying points at CCV or Poly it is vital to know.

Well, what I will say is that they DIDN'T do this for 2021. I thought they would, and it didn't seem like they did at the Poly at all.

 

[Sandisw]

Before the show we had exactly this conversation with Pete, discussing the legal definition of a unit/vacation home; I even brought up Zavandor’s findings around the removal of a unit from the system due to irreparable destruction to said unit. It was decided it was too in the weeds for this platform, unfortunately.

ETA- we probably would not have been well versed enough to speak to it to the degree the topic would deserve. Additionally, this would involve a conversation around the THV reallocation and potentially the SSR view and BWV view issue as well (which I can’t help but feel plays into the whole reversal in the 2021 charts).

I did post somewhere not that long ago that vacation home and unit are defined differently in the multi site POS where they discuss reallocation rules..not in the RIV POS at all.

Not sure if it is these two different definitions that DVC uses to explain crossing unit types, but at very least, it seems to it allows for some ambiguity.

 

[crvetter]

I did post somewhere not that long ago that vacation home and unit are defined differently in the multi site POS where they discuss reallocation rules..not in the RIV POS at all.

Not sure if it is these two different definitions that DVC uses to explain crossing unit types, but at very least, it seems to it allows for some ambiguity.

I think I'm a bit confused. The RIV POS does define Unit and Vacation Home differently, similar to CCV definition and similar to BCV. In fact the Muli Site POS is similar except it drops the Unit definition that says it is defined by Florida Statute. However, they simply can't decide to not include those rules as they will be required to be maintained. Also the MultiSite is more of an aggregate document meant to summerize all the other resort POSs it really isn't the legally binding document. If you look at the document closely it reads as a summary.

 

[drusba]

2021 point charts show is up. Those that were involved in the 2020 points chart craziness may get a kick out of the discussion as well:

https://dvcfan.com/2019/12/16/dvc-show-2021-point-charts/

Good show. An extra point probably worth mentioning:

Six nights of the year, Easter Monday through Sat, had a huge drop, 25% per night. Under the DVC Membership Agreement, the 20% daily change limit per year does not apply to the holiday times (Easter and Thanksgiving) that move dates every year. For example, a standard studio at BWV fell for that Easter Mon through Sat from a total of 130 points to 98; a standard 1BR went from 260 to 190; and a preferred view 2BR fell 100 points from 412 to 312. Members who usually go, and have enough points for, Easter week, now have the "problem" of figuring out what to do with all those extra points (perhaps they will try for first week of Dec).

 

[Sandisw]

I think I'm a bit confused. The RIV POS does define Unit and Vacation Home differently, similar to CCV definition and similar to BCV. In fact the Muli Site POS is similar except it drops the Unit definition that says it is defined by Florida Statute. However, they simply can't decide to not include those rules as they will be required to be maintained. Also the MultiSite is more of an aggregate document meant to summerize all the other resort POSs it really isn't the legally binding document. If you look at the document closely it reads as a summary.

Unless I missed it, there was no discussion in the RIV POS I got that discussed the point re allocations and such. It simply stated to refer to the multi site POS for details.

I’m currently in Disney, so when I get home Thursday, I’ll have to go back and check. I just remember finding it odd that the resort one did nit have the details but the multisite one did. Of course, I could have missed for sure!