2020 Point Charts

[drusba]

I just got off the phone with DVC, and they refuse to tell me any information. They say I can determine it on my own. Not very ethical on their part.

Looking at POS info posted above, it seems they are capable of raising the studio and 1BR rates ad infinitum, subject to the yearly cap, as long as 1 use day remains at 22 points for the studio and 1 use day remains at 45 points for a 1BR. This allows them to require many more points for reservations after a resort sells out giving them the ability to have more rentals. Not good.

As to getting information, I believe you are entitled to learn how the point charts were reallocated for a resort you own and review any hard documents or electronic files relating to that reallocation, but you may need to go a different route than calling MS whose personnel likely do not know what was actually done. The likely route to try is to send a formal letter to the new head of the Disney Vacation Club,Terri Schultz, 1390 Celebration Blvd, Celebration, FL 34747.

The particular DVC entity that is responsible for doing reallocations is the Disney Vacation Club Management Corp. (DVCMC), which manages all the resorts and is in charge of the reservation systems to the extent they relate to home resort reservations. The association appointed DVCMC to be the management company and have all the powers the association has and all the same fiduciary obligations to the members.

Under Fla Stat. 721.13(d)1, any such management company is charged with:

"Maintenance of all books and records concerning the timeshare plan so that all such books and records are reasonably available for inspection by any purchaser or the authorized agent of such purchaser. For purposes of this subparagraph, the books and records of the timeshare plan shall be considered “reasonably available” if copies of the requested portions are delivered to the purchaser or the purchaser’s agent within 7 days after the date the managing entity receives a written request for the records signed by the purchaser. The managing entity may charge the purchaser a reasonable fee for copying the requested information not to exceed 25 cents per page. However, any purchaser or agent of such purchaser shall be permitted to personally inspect and examine the books and records wherever located at any reasonable time, under reasonable conditions, and under the supervision of the custodian of those records."

Other provisions are also applicable. Under Fla Stat. 718.110(12), the applicable association is required to maintain records of the association, a long list is provided, and then there is a catch-all, 718.110(12)(a)15, requiring maintenance of "All other written records of the association not specifically included in the foregoing which are related to the operation of the association." That same statute provides in Fla Stat. 718.110(12)(c)1:

“The official records of the association are open to inspection by any association member or the authorized representative of such member at all reasonable times. The right to inspect the records includes the right to make or obtain copies, at the reasonable expense, if any, of the member or authorized representative of such member.”

Under section 5 of the Property Management Agreement attached to the Declarations of your resort, the association assigns its obligations under the above statute, including that to produce records to members, to DVCMC.

The claim that was made that the information is proprietary seems facetious, both because it sounds ridiculous to assert DVCMC can do a reallocation as long as total points do not increase but can conceal how that is done from the members affected. Moreover, to claim you can do the same calculations yourself is an admission that the information is not proprietary.

 

[Dean]

I'm late to the thread but i realized how this works.

This is a big deal folks.

BWV points are allocated (sold) as dedicated studios and 1-bedrooms, and the 2-bedroom lock offs are allocated as 2-bedrooms. However, because the. 2-bedrooms run out in studios first, that means a lot of 2-bedrooms actually rent for more points than are in the system. By shifting more point value to the studios and 1-bedrooms, Disney creates extra availability across the whole system.

Example: with the old allocation, a 2-bedroom goes for 350 a week during magic season, but the studio and 1-bedroom go for 403 points, which creates an extra 53 points in the system. Shifting it to be 341 and 405 means they now create 64 points instead of 53.

This does two things, it means more availability across the entire system which is good in theory for the member, but it is also means that in the end thats more rooms that Disney can rent out for cash, because they Cantrell them with points because the points do not exist. It's a way for DVC to make more money.

More likely they'll shift more reservations to 2 BR over the smaller units, I suspect the ultimate extra rooms not reserved with points will not be any higher and may actually be lower. Remember the rooms don't automatically come out of inventory, they are available for others to book using points not from that UY and/or not from that home resort. It does also set us up for another reallocation either next year if this were a 2 yr plan like the 2010/2011 reallocation or in a few years as the 1 BR will still not be in demand (though pushing to the 2 BR for lockoff MIGHT control that issue).

Looking at SSR there had to be a shift between standard and preferred designations, anyone get any information on that from DVC so far?

 

[jvattes]

This chart is super helpful. We are newer owners, but like many (?most) have plotted out our vacations over the next several years. Wanting to stay in different locations, this chart is helpful in planning the overall least expensive route. We had been planning PVB for 2019 and VGF for 2020, but if PVB is going to be less expensive and VGF more so in 2020, maybe we should swap them. Hmm....

 

[skier_pete]

So as a follow-up to my original post on the previous page after reading the whole thread - this is certainly what way are doing: Creating artificial points that will leave them

If Disney was truly doing this based on the demand usage of guests - they would RAISE studios and lower 1-bedrooms. Instead they raised BOTH.

Units with a lot of lock offs allow them to raise the studio and one-bedroom rates, but only lower the 2-bedroom rates enough to offset the dedicated studios and 1-bedrooms. As I said, it's a clever way to create points. Members will use all of their points, but since it costs more points for the studios and 1-beds, this will in the end free up more rooms to rent out. It's clever and it's legal, and it's a pretty big screw to DVC members that rent studios and 1-bedrooms.

Now - the reallocation from magic season to the lower seasons actually make sense. The lower seasons are by far the most popular, and summer books up last.

 

[Wakey]

As to getting information, I believe you are entitled to learn how the point charts were reallocated for a resort you own and review any hard documents or electronic files relating to that reallocation, but you may need to go a different route than calling MS whose personnel likely do not know what was actually done. The likely route to try is to send a formal letter to the new head of the Disney Vacation Club,Terri Schultz, 1390 Celebration Blvd, Celebration, FL 34747.

The particular DVC entity that is responsible for doing reallocations is the Disney Vacation Club Management Corp. (DVCMC), which manages all the resorts and is in charge of the reservation systems to the extent they relate to home resort reservations. The association appointed DVCMC to be the management company and have all the powers the association has and all the same fiduciary obligations to the members.

Under Fla Stat. 721.13(d)1, any such management company is charged with:

"Maintenance of all books and records concerning the timeshare plan so that all such books and records are reasonably available for inspection by any purchaser or the authorized agent of such purchaser. For purposes of this subparagraph, the books and records of the timeshare plan shall be considered “reasonably available” if copies of the requested portions are delivered to the purchaser or the purchaser’s agent within 7 days after the date the managing entity receives a written request for the records signed by the purchaser. The managing entity may charge the purchaser a reasonable fee for copying the requested information not to exceed 25 cents per page. However, any purchaser or agent of such purchaser shall be permitted to personally inspect and examine the books and records wherever located at any reasonable time, under reasonable conditions, and under the supervision of the custodian of those records."

Other provisions are also applicable. Under Fla Stat. 718.110(12), the applicable association is required to maintain records of the association, a long list is provided, and then there is a catch-all, 718.110(12)(a)15, requiring maintenance of "All other written records of the association not specifically included in the foregoing which are related to the operation of the association." That same statute provides in Fla Stat. 718.110(12)(c)1:

“The official records of the association are open to inspection by any association member or the authorized representative of such member at all reasonable times. The right to inspect the records includes the right to make or obtain copies, at the reasonable expense, if any, of the member or authorized representative of such member.”

Under section 5 of the Property Management Agreement attached to the Declarations of your resort, the association assigns its obligations under the above statute, including that to produce records to members, to DVCMC.

The claim that was made that the information is proprietary seems facetious, both because it sounds ridiculous to assert DVCMC can do a reallocation as long as total points do not increase but can conceal how that is done from the members affected. Moreover, to claim you can do the same calculations yourself is an admission that the information is not proprietary.

Good work Drusba. I hope someone requests all the documents under this statute. I may even do it myself but would have to send a letter from the U.K.

 

[Frederic Civish]

If your daughter is within her 10 day rescission period, I would recommend she rescind the contract and look into getting two Guaranteed Week contracts at CCV for a studio. Those contracts are exempt from reallocations. Moving forward, it's very likely she will find difficulty securing two weeks in a studio during the weeks leading up to Christmas to join you annually.

She will lose any sort of incentives, but in the long term, those few thousand dollars may pay for itself in reduced anxiety over CCV booking during Christmas.

If Fixed Week contracts can avoid future increases in points, then in the end, it might be best to just go a head and get them in everything. Because eventually the point price for 'regular' studios will probably pass it.

 

[LënuSëkahsëni]

If Fixed Week contracts can avoid future increases in points, then in the end, it might be best to just go a head and get them in everything. Because eventually the point price for 'regular' studios will probably pass it.

I purchased a fixed week at Copper Creek for 118 points, the 107 points needed from the current points chart plus the addition 10% for the fixed week. In 2020, the points chart for that week is going up to 114. If they raise the studio points again there is a good chance that I'll be coming out ahead with a fixed week contact.

 

[Mumof4mice]

I wouldn't be surprised if 1BR point requirements continue to rise to the maximum allowed. There is only so far DVCMC can drive profits before savvy timeshare owners opt for Bonnet Creek. Making 1BRs stay on the shelves longer is an easy way for Disney to hugely increase the flexibility of the DVC ecosystem, thereby creating an in-between market.

The possibility of booking flexibility - "you can still book into X resort at short notice if you spend a bit more points" - potentially makes DCC a viable option for mainstream vacationers who wouldn't purchase a traditional timeshare. For our family at least, we saw the availability of 1BR across a wide selection of resorts (well into the 7 month window) as a positive, reassuring feature when deciding to buy in.

Of course, once I started paying dues on points, booking two 1BRs (because I failed to plan in advance) will be avoided at all cost!

 

[E2ME2]

Murphy's law strikes me again!
Just added on some points earlier this year to prepare for our first big family vacay at SSR-GV in January 2020.
2019 Points Chart for this was 464. 2020 Points Chart for this is now 501 ! That's a 37 point Gut-Punch
Guess in 2021 we will be point-less

 

[bobbiwoz]

Murphy's law strikes me again!
Just added on some points earlier this year to prepare for our first big family vacay at SSR-GV in January 2020.
2019 Points Chart for this was 464. 2020 Points Chart for this is now 501 ! That's a 37 point Gut-Punch
Guess in 2021 we will be point-less

You got hit bad. I have not planned anything beyond 2019 at this point. My worries are about the walking that’s going on for December 2019.

 

[drusba]

In case anyone's interested, the non-WDW DVC resorts have no changes for 2020 except usual ones for things like Easter holiday date changes.

 

[Dean]

In case anyone's interested, the non-WDW DVC resorts have no changes for 2020 except usual ones for things like Easter holiday date changes.

I wonder if this will cause exchanges to increase a bit for small units since i'll cost more points per studio/1BR exchange in many cases.

 

[DougEMG]

I suspect that these changes will end up screwing over the vast majority of the members. Too many members only have enough points to book studios or don't have enough people in their party to ever need a two bedroom or like to spoil themselves with a 1 bedroom. All of those people will now not have enough points to book their normal trip, so the result for most members is that they will be taking shorter trips.

I have a lot of points, but there are only ever 2-3 of us going. I am never going to stay in a 2 bedroom. I bought DVC to save on the cost of a room. I am not going to waste my points/money booking more expensive rooms than I want or need. If owning DVC doesn't save me money, then I will sell.

This change is enough to shake my trust in DVC. Right now I have a contract at BLT in closing which is taking forever; don't understand why some sellers are so slow to get their paperwork in, don't they want their money? If the sale fell apart right now, I wouldn't be that upset. If more crap like this happens next year, I will look at selling and walking away from Disney completely.

 

[zavandor]

I think we are up for more changes next year or the year after. If they're not challenged, from their point of view, why not increase the cost of studios again increasing the lockoff premium? The differencial between 1BR is already so small in some cases that there isn't much wiggle room. But between studios and 1br the gap is so big that they can increase them 2-3 more times easily. They'll lower something to muddle the waters, but the lockoff premium will be the main source of extra points.
Keep your seat belts fastened, the ride has just started (keep your hand, arms, legs and wallet inside the car at all times)

 

[mrsap]

Has anyone reached out to MS and complained at all? I'm curious to see what they're telling each person who calls or writes.

 

[RescueRanger]

Ok, I haven't read all of this thread, so this may have already been said, but could Disney be trying to discourage renting? Starting next year, there are a lot of new rooms opening up. Disney will need to fill them. If people are renting studios from DVC members because it is cheaper, why not raise the points required for those studios and now it isn't quite the same great deal. In fact, it is probably close enough in price after the reallocation that it is safer to just reserve through Disney at another resort. It wouldn't affect people who rent 2 BR's but I would be willing to bet that a large amount of renters prefer studios. Just a thought.

 

[DougEMG]

Ok, I haven't read all of this thread, so this may have already been said, but could Disney be trying to discourage renting? Starting next year, there are a lot of new rooms opening up. Disney will need to fill them. If people are renting studios from DVC members because it is cheaper, why not raise the points required for those studios and now it isn't quite the same great deal. In fact, it is probably close enough in price after the reallocation that it is safer to just reserve through Disney at another resort. It wouldn't affect people who rent 2 BR's but I would be willing to bet that a large amount of renters prefer studios. Just a thought.

Disney has to be careful here. Most people buying are buying to stay in studios, if that isn't cheaper than booking rooms directly, then there is no need to buy DVC.

 

[RescueRanger]

Disney has to be careful here. Most people buying are buying to stay in studios, if that isn't cheaper than booking rooms directly, then there is no need to buy DVC.

Buying... yes. But, I am specifically talking about renters. 4 or 5 more points a night at the going rental rate is approximately $80 more per night. That is now giving someone who is thinking about renting pause.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Buying... yes. But, I am specifically talking about renters. 4 or 5 more points a night at the going rental rate is approximately $80 more per night. That is now giving someone who is thinking about renting pause.

I'd also agree that isn't likely as it negates part of the sales pitch of DVC. I really do not think they worry much about renters. They definitely need to worry about buyers and that they continue to feel there is value in purchasing DVC as some will analyze that vs basking in the pixie dust.

 

[zavandor]

At last condo meeting they didn't talk abiut the reallocation but said members'satisfaction was at the maximum in three years.
I guess they wanted to boast about it before the huge plummet.