2014 Healthcare a Vent!

[TinkTock]

The only issue with that is that the government subsidized your employer's ability to offer you health insurance by allowing your employer to deduct the cost of that insurance from their gross income, thereby reducing the corporation's tax liability, as well as allowing you to pay your share of the premiums on a pre-tax basis, which again saves you taxes. The fact that you receive the benefit and value it, as do I, doesn't mean that it's not a subsidy from the federal government in order to encourage your employer to offer insurance.

If the government is unhappy that companies are getting a tax break for providing a benefit, they should just eliminate the tax break rather than deciding which benefits companies should offer.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

If the government is unhappy that companies are getting a tax break for providing a benefit, they should just eliminate the tax break rather than deciding which benefits companies should offer.

Who said the government is unhappy? The government created the subsidy specifically because they want companies to offer that benefit. That is the whole point behind subsidizing health insurance with tax breaks, be those to corporations or to individuals now buying insurance on an exchange.

 

[lauradis]

The only issue with that is that the government subsidized your employer's ability to offer you health insurance by allowing your employer to deduct the cost of that insurance from their gross income, thereby reducing the corporation's tax liability, as well as allowing you to pay your share of the premiums on a pre-tax basis, which again saves you taxes. The fact that you receive the benefit and value it, as do I, doesn't mean that it's not a subsidy from the federal government in order to encourage your employer to offer insurance.

Corporations pay taxes? Just joking fully aware of the tax schemes.

Do you truly think a Corporation will just raise your wages, to replace the full price of the insurance benefit?.

Very highly unlikely. ACA still didn't address the pink elephant in the room called cost, but we will just have to wait and see the financial impact over the next 5-8 year cycle. god how I hope deflation doesn't make it over the Atlantic.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Corporations pay taxes? Just joking fully aware of the tax schemes.

Do you truly think a Corporation will just raise your wages, to replace the full price of the insurance benefit?.

Very highly unlikely. ACA still didn't address the pink elephant in the room called cost, but we will just have to wait and see the financial impact over the next 5-8 year cycle. god how I hope deflation doesn't make it over the Atlantic.

No, of course I don't think most employers would raise wages or continue to offer insurance (mine probably would continue to offer it, but most likely would not). I do know that the government would collect tens, if not hundreds of billions in revenue if the deduction was eliminated and that could partially underwrite basic health care for all, instead of for some, and then we could all buy our own policies on the open market if we so choose, just as we do for other insurances.

As to the cost, the ACA actually could impact insurance costs if it is enforced and penalties against non-compliers are levied such as to shape behavior, as it will increase the size of the risk pool. As to controlling true health care costs, you are correct that it doesn't do much for that, although there are solutions that would. I don't think some would like the solutions, however.

And yes, deflation would be a bad thing, but that's the least likely of our worries right now.

 

[kandb]

With everything that is happening to medical insurance in this country, is just sickening.

 

[lauradis]

No, of course I don't think most employers would raise wages or continue to offer insurance (mine probably would continue to offer it, but most likely would not). I do know that the government would collect tens, if not hundreds of billions in revenue if the deduction was eliminated and that could partially underwrite basic health care for all, instead of for some, and then we could all buy our own policies on the open market if we so choose, just as we do for other insurances.

As to the cost, the ACA actually could impact insurance costs if it is enforced and penalties against non-compliers are levied such as to shape behavior, as it will increase the size of the risk pool. As to controlling true health care costs, you are correct that it doesn't do much for that, although there are solutions that would. I don't think some would like the solutions, however.

And yes, deflation would be a bad thing, but that's the least likely of our worries right now.

I see cost control of the middle class that have more "skin in game" to worry about the cost of x test or cost of doctors visit, to avoid the higher cost of deductibles.

But when you are given something for cheap or free you don't care what the end cost is. ie the Disney dinning plan

ACA has lots of built in cheaper insurance for the present non insured via subsidies

I would suggest you take a review of history lesson on the great depression
Not trying to be doom and gloom but what goes over the Atlantic vibrates back.

You would be perfect dinner guest

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I see cost control of the middle class that have more "skin in game" to worry about the cost of x test or cost of doctors visit, to avoid the higher cost of deductibles.

But when you are given something for cheap or free you don't care what the end cost is. ie the Disney dinning plan

ACA has lots of built in cheaper insurance for the present non insured via subsidies

I would suggest you take a review of history lesson on the great depression
Not trying to be doom and gloom but what goes over the Atlantic vibrates back.

You would be perfect dinner guest

I think my reply to you on the other thread essentially answers this post, as well, but something in this post suddenly may have clarified your fears about deflation. Deflation and depression are not the same thing. I've studied more economic history than 99.99% of people, and I'm a total history nerd, but enough on that.

As for the subsidies built into the ACA, those same subsidies are built into employer-paid health insurance, which is also subsidized by the federal government. In fact, the cost-sharing built into the plans on the ACA does exactly what you think it doesn't, i.e. require those with insurance to think about their use of medical care. In other words, under the ACA, people are NOT being given something for free, as even those who are most heavily subsidized are still given co-pays, deductibles, etc.

Putting a means-test into Medicare could be a solution for those on that program, but it doesn't have anything to do with the ACA so I won't muddy those waters.

I do enjoy the conversation.

 

[ktlm]

We are a 42 employee business. This year our health insurance premiums went up over 50% supposedly in anticipation of Obamacare. We were told our plan was grandfathered in and everything would be okay. Well, it turns out the plan did not qualify to be grandfathered in and this week we received notice from the health insurer that our entire insurance plan is cancelled as of January 1. Our plan year doesn't even end until next April, but we are now being cancelled mid-stream.

Now we have 42 employees and their families that are going to be without insurance as of the first of next year. We are trying to find another plan, but so far it isn't looking good for businesses with under 50 employees. We are looking at what our employees are going to have to pay to find private coverage if we can't find a plan, and it is ridiculous compared to what they pay now. Families of 3, who have 2 spouses working who each make $40,000 do not qualify for any breaks or subsidies as the limit for a 3 person family is $78,000. Not only are the premiums for private insurance much higher than we pay now for the group plan- but even if we give them what we pay now to go towards it, instead of being pre-tax, it is post tax and won't even cover half of the private insurance. We always pay for the employee to be covered and then they can use pre-tax dollars to cover their families. Now in addition to that amount not even coming close to covering the individual employee if we pay it to them directly, the family premium cost is much higher than what they have now and will have to be paid with post tax dollars. There are people that aren't going to be able to swing it and their current house payment together. I have no idea what is going to happen right now. We are working with advisors to try to figure something out, but it isn't looking good.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

We were told our plan was grandfathered in and everything would be okay. Well, it turns out the plan did not qualify to be grandfathered in and this week we received notice from the health insurer that our entire insurance plan is cancelled as of January 1.

Interesting to hear an employers side.

I've been pretty upset with my employer because we were told earlier this year we were grandfathered in and could keep our insurance only to be told last month by our company we were being dropped Jan 1st. I just assumed they were being cheap but maybe they had no choice. We have our benefit meeting in 2 weeks to discuss our options but all the uncertainty has been driving me crazy, I think the last time I didn't have employer provided insurance was in the late 90's.

Sometimes change sucks!