2 hours in the emergency room cost me......

[minnie56]

Sorry, but nothing is free. Someone is going to pay for it.

And I don't mean to be rude at all, but you say that you can't even afford $100 a month for medical insurance. So, how will you afford it if there was UHC and your taxes were raised to cover it? It certainly isn't going to pay for itself. Or do you expect the "rich" people to have to pay more taxes to cover everyone?

HA!
If anything--the RICH PEOPLE get more tax breaks! Sorry--no sympathy here for them! My friend's husband has a very profitable company...you would not believe the breaks...perks and loopholes he avails himself and his family of!

 

[daisax]

I'm glad I live in Massachusetts -- everybody's required to have health insurance, or else they take $ out of their income tax refunds to go into the "people without insurance" fund.

 

[SereneOne]

Insurance laws have changed and as long as you maintain coverage they can't exclude preexisting conditions. I have to say that your friend must not have looked very hard because $1000/month is EXTREMELY expensive for ANY insurance plan here. Again, even in Canada you PAY for your insurance, it is just in your taxes and I bet you pay MORE for your insurance then most of us in the US. Yes, there are people that don't have insurance but for most there IS insurance available they simply choose NOT to pay for it. There is insurance available to EVERY US citizen but yes, they have to do a little work to get it, fill out some paperwork mostly. You will hear a lot of complaining about people not having insurance but like the OP, it is their CHOICE that they don't have coverage, not that it isn't available.

MANY do not choose not to pay for insurance...many jobs pay so low one can not afford the insurance or it is insurance not worth the money...you are making generalizations and blaming the victims. The most uninsured segment is children. We should at least have state/federal insurance that covers children until they are 18. Many years ago we where poor and luckily we lived in FL where they had state insurance based on income. My DH worked two jobs and one did not offer insurance and the other offered insurance that was substandard and too expensive. I knew of many in the same boat as us, but then we lived in a poor neighborhood then. It is ridiculous that in a country as rich as ours, we do not take better care of our citizens. We have a high mortality rate for babies and that is just insane.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Where did I say that? I said our insurance premiums were 7.5%. If we have costs that gets added on. How many surgeries per year would a normal person have. This was only my second in my entire life. The first was my toncils at 6 years old. This was DH's first surgery of his entire life.

Yes you did. And someone from Canada said their taxes for HC is 8%. So going by that rate, $2500 must come in under .5% of your income. If it doesn't, then UC would have been beneficial to you.

 

[tlens]

Universal Healthcare wouldn't work well in the US as your system wasn't built on that. It was in Britain, alot of Europe, Canada etc so it works here. Americans may not understand it but it works. We don't begrudge the taxes. Sure we may whine but it's because we need something to whine about. But I don't think that very many Canadians/Brit's or Europeans would choose to pay less taxes and go to an American system.

 

[momto2girls]

HA!
If anything--the RICH PEOPLE get more tax breaks! Sorry--no sympathy here for them! My friend's husband has a very profitable company...you would not believe the breaks...perks and loopholes he avails himself and his family of!

He's here in the U.S.? If so, could you please ask him what these loopholes are? I would love to find some. My DH owns his own business and he is taxed up the ying yang. I would love to find some of these so-called breaks.

Our taxes are high enough. I would never sign up for paying more.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Sorry, but nothing is free. Someone is going to pay for it.

And I don't mean to be rude at all, but you say that you can't even afford $100 a month for medical insurance. So, how will you afford it if there was UHC and your taxes were raised to cover it? It certainly isn't going to pay for itself. Or do you expect the "rich" people to have to pay more taxes to cover everyone?

It's covered in taxes. If we had this, then the taxes we already pay out for Medicare and Medicaid would be gone. It would simply be transferred to the national healthcare. The extra taxes from there would be increased only slightly.

We also wouldn't have to worry about those people "cheating" the healthcare system as everyone could get the care they needed without worry.

People often forget that with UC we could do away with Medicare/Medicaid.

 

[tlens]

Where did the 8% taxes for heathcare come from in Canada? i've never heard that figure. I can't IMAGINE paying 8% of my income in healthcare tax. That figure would be staggering to me. I think the Ontario premium is $200.00 and it's not like we pay cash for it, it's a addition on the income tax form.

I pay income taxes of about 26%. (Base rate is 17%...increases with income) I pay 1% of my income for Employment insurance (I lose my job or have a baby, I still have some income coming in).

We pay in Ontario a 8% Provincial sales tax. (PST)
We pay in Canada a 5% Good and Services tax.

Unlike many US states, we don't pay taxes on most groceries. We don't pay PST on children's clothing, shoes under $30.00, bicycles, helmets, car seats etc.

I pay property taxes.

American's pay taxes on those things as well.

I pay nothing for drugs through our employers (a virtual requirement in Canada...to provide drug/dental coverage for employees). Since my dh is diabetic and has heart problems, his medications cost us almost $800.00/month. We pay nothing. I never have to worry about an employer not giving one of us a job due to diabetes or heart problems. They are not allowed to ask.

Sorry but I'll take my system, with all it's warts anyday of the week.

 

[sandy2330]

Yes you did. And someone from Canada said their taxes for HC is 8%. So going by that rate, $2500 must come in under .5% of your income. If it doesn't, then UC would have been beneficial to you.

Show me where? I even looked at what you quoted and I said the word premium.

Nope I don't plan for surgery every year. It went up to 7.5% this past premium. Before that it was even less.

How can anything be less when I will be paying for DH, myself and then others who won't be paying.

Lets say for arguements sake it takes $2K/person to do UHC. There are 300 million Americans. That is 3 billion a year. Now take out all of the non-tax payers and we are down to about 1/2 (just a rough guess). That means each taxpayer owes $4K. How many can pay that and only pay 8%?

Answer - Only singles making $50K+ and married making 100K+. Given the number of married who make $100K+ is a small percentage (less than 20%) of the total working families that means that we have a shortfall. Who pays it. Of course the single making over $50K and the married with over $100K. They would be paying far more than 8%. In this senario, if DH and I make over $100K we would be paying more not less.

 

[minnie56]

He's here in the U.S.? If so, could you please ask him what these loopholes are? I would love to find some. My DH owns his own business and he is taxed up the ying yang. I would love to find some of these so-called breaks.

Our taxes are high enough. I would never sign up for paying more.

NO NO he's here..
It's a big company...

 

[momto2girls]

It's covered in taxes. If we had this, then the taxes we already pay out for Medicare and Medicaid would be gone. It would simply be transferred to the national healthcare. The extra taxes from there would be increased only slightly.

We also wouldn't have to worry about those people "cheating" the healthcare system as everyone could get the care they needed without worry.

People often forget that with UC we could do away with Medicare/Medicaid.

So, you are saying that the funds that are currently going to Medicare and Medicaid to supply medical attention for a fraction of the population, the elderly and indigent, would be enough to cover the entire population of the US with only a "slight increase" in taxes?

 

[spima3]

Universal Healthcare wouldn't work well in the US as your system wasn't built on that. It was in Britain, alot of Europe, Canada etc so it works here. Americans may not understand it but it works. We don't begrudge the taxes. Sure we may whine but it's because we need something to whine about. But I don't think that very many Canadians/Brit's or Europeans would choose to pay less taxes and go to an American system.

Actually, I was watching a documentary recently about Health Insurance around the world. The guy travelled to a lot of industrialized nations and inquired about their Health Insurance programs. His basic conclusion was though there were many good things about all of them, they all had problems of one sort or another, and not everyone was happy with what they had. Sometimes the consumers were very happy but the medical personnel who had to work within the system were very unhappy. I think in Germany (?) they even went on strike.
I don't think most people in the US would be happy with UHC, too much like socialism.

 

[Mom2Nick]

NO NO he's here..
It's a big company...

Define big.

My family owns a BIG company - actually several. We get no tax breaks... wish we did.

 

[momto2girls]

NO NO he's here..
It's a big company...

I see. Well, I know nothing about the Canadian tax structure, but here in the US, small business owners get creamed with taxes. We don't have all of the loopholes that you are referring to. I just can't get on board with anything that would raise our taxes further. As it is, I don't feel that we get our money's worth anyway. So, I certainly don't want to throw more money into the abyss of our government.

 

[minnie56]

Actually, I was watching a documentary recently about Health Insurance around the world. The guy travelled to a lot of industrialized nations and inquired about their Health Insurance programs. His basic conclusion was though there were many good things about all of them, they all had problems of one sort or another, and not everyone was happy with what they had. Sometimes the consumers were very happy but the medical personnel who had to work within the system were very unhappy. I think in Germany (?) they even went on strike.
I don't think most people in the US would be happy with UHC, too much like socialism.

Well--this topic comes and goes around here alllll the time.

We have it--for the most part--it works excellently! I cannot imagine not having it..

You don't have it and for whatever your reasons, don't desire it!

So carry on ! But I do find it interesting that this keeps rearing it's head when sooo many don't want our system!!

 

[sandy2330]

Actually, I was watching a documentary recently about Health Insurance around the world. The guy travelled to a lot of industrialized nations and inquired about their Health Insurance programs. His basic conclusion was though there were many good things about all of them, they all had problems of one sort or another, and not everyone was happy with what they had. Sometimes the consumers were very happy but the medical personnel who had to work within the system were very unhappy. I think in Germany (?) they even went on strike.
I don't think most people in the US would be happy with UHC, too much like socialism.

I would believe this to be true.

I am not saying that the US system or my own insurance it the best in the world, but I am not willing to sacrafice what I have paid into and consider to be excellent insurance to try out UHC. Sadly I think we will be getting it.

--------------------------

If one does not have $100 extra dollars per month than one needs to reevaluate their discretionary expenses - cable, internet, cell phone, etc. and then see if that statement is really true or if they prefer to pay for the fun stuff rather than the needed stuff.

 

[momto2girls]

Well--this topic comes and goes around here alllll the time.

We have it--for the most part--it works excellently! I cannot imagine not having it..

You don't have it and for whatever your reasons, don't desire it!

So carry on ! But I do find it interesting that this keeps rearing it's head when sooo many don't want our system!!

You know every time this topic comes up, some of the Canadians always seem to take offense and can't imagine why we wouldn't want UHC. I just want to say that I'm not at all dissing your system. I know that it works for you and that most Canadians are happy with it. But the US is very different culturally. Many of us see many inherent problems with implementing a UHC HERE. It has nothing to do with how well it works in Canada or the UK. It has everything to do with our culture.

 

[minnie56]

I see. Well, I know nothing about the Canadian tax structure, but here in the US, small business owners get creamed with taxes. We don't have all of the loopholes that you are referring to. I just can't get on board with anything that would raise our taxes further. As it is, I don't feel that we get our money's worth anyway. So, I certainly don't want to throw more money into the abyss of our government.

We are talking a BIG company! 300+ employees. Loopholes such as his wife sits on the Board of Directors..yeah--okay...he income splits...not just with his wife but his 2 daughters, company pays all their gas for their cars, their car leases, cleaning lady, gardener and on and on. He is paying LESS taxes not more, that's the point! Now that ticks me. He still gets full medical coverage as does poor Joe Blow on the Street..freeeeee!!!! That is never compromised.

 

[momto2girls]

I would believe this to be true.

I am not saying that the US system or my own insurance it the best in the world, but I am not willing to sacrafice what I have paid into and consider to be excellent insurance to try out UHC. Sadly I think we will be getting it.

--------------------------

If one does not have $100 extra dollars per month than one needs to reevaluate their discretionary expenses - cable, internet, cell phone, etc. and then see if that statement is really true or if they prefer to pay for the fun stuff rather than the needed stuff.

I'm afraid that we're heading that way too. All I can do is hope that by fighting it, we'll postpone it as long as possible. I really worry about how things will be for my daughters here in the US when they are grown.

 

[Kath2003]

Where did the 8% taxes for heathcare come from in Canada? i've never heard that figure. I can't IMAGINE paying 8% of my income in healthcare tax. That figure would be staggering to me.

That was me, it's my figure from the UK and it also includes a state pension (universal also).