18% being added to ALL dining checks

[sarcasticblonde]

Oh I missed where I said you still worked at Mcdonalds (learn to read) it was a subtle point. (go back and read slower this time maybe you will get the point).

*Sigh* nobody question how you were raised or if you work hard for your money, or if that is a good thing to teach the kids. It was the fact that you implied it was the overall norm with servers and people in general. Which brings us back to your days at McDonalds...I'm sure the one you worked out was filled with people that wanted to do nothing but server the hotest fries and freshes Mcribs...a quick check in the real world will find that not to be the case and..... my point.

Well I'm sorry that you don't get to experience the same world that I grew up in and currently live in

 

[CanadianGuy]

I don't think AV is turning anything around, facts are facts, the name disney is using for this is fundamentally incorrect.

I suspect that as soon as the majority of restaurants nationwide change the name they use for the autogratuity on parties of 6 or 8 or more .. Disney will too. Are you suggesting Disney should lead the charge on that?

But do you really think all servers are willing to go the extra mile for 20% if they know they're going to get 18% from 90+ percent of the patrons no matter what?

Did I miss the press release where this auto-grat will be added to "90+ percent" of guest checks.. no matter what?

Knox

 

[Sandus]

We, the customers, want the "traditional" system where we paid a voluntary amount for service. We like it because we believe (wrongly or rightly) it encourages better service.

Exactly.

You, the wait staff, want an mandatory fixed charge added onto all the bills because it will give you higher incomes.

Not quite. It isn't higher incomes. Most servers (even at lower levels) average about 18%, at least where I come from. It's consistent income. Any server can tell you about the day they got 10% tips from every table no matter what they did and went home with less than $10 in their pockets.

Most people go to work with an expectation of what they will make that day (usually because they get paid hourly or a salary) and budget accordingly. Servers are no different. But whereas the regularly paid worker says "I need to take part of this paycheck and set it aside for my car payment," the server says "I really hope I get good tips today so I can make my car payment."

The reward system is still there, it just starts on a different scale. Instead of 0% to infinity, the scale starts at 18% and goes to infinity. Notice how there's no maximum. I've seen servers get 300% tips or higher. The only people who this truly affects are people who routinely tip under 18%, which I believe to be too low anyway (bearing in mind that of that 18%, the server only goes home with about 10-14%).

It's "tips" vs. "service charge".

I have no problem with either system. But I do want to know up front which system I'll be dining under.

I still contend that this is semantics. The word "tip" has evolved over time to the point that when dining at a restaurant, a tip and a service charge are synonymous (for the record, one restaurant I worked at actually put the words "service charge" on the check for the gratuity line). You scoffed when I said that tipping wasn't optional anymore, but if you walk into any bar or restaurant and proclaim that you never tip, I guarantee you that you'll ruffle more than a couple feathers. So while "tipping" in the traditional sense isn't a requirement, it's become a social institution in which there is an appropriate way to go about doing it. Since a large percentage of Disney diners are either unfamiliar with or refuse to abide by it, Disney imposed a safeguard to protect (note my continuous use of that word) its employees.

But that doesn't give you any reason for calling us lying jerks because we like the way things are currently arranged. If you want the system changed, be honest about it and discuss it. By personal insults and "you obviously have never..." simply reduce your position to little more than greed.

I never used the word "jerk," nor have I seen anyone else accuse you of being so. Rather, I am enjoying this discussion because you're more articulate and less hard headed than the majority of internet forum posters I've come across.

As far as lying, I'm only categorizing you (or anyone else for that matter) as a liar if you contend that you always (except in rare, justified cases) tip at least 18% ("well"), but this policy will alter the way that you tip.

I'm not saying that all servers work hard, nor do all people in any profession on this earth. There are always going to be lazy people who skate by in this world, but that shouldn't mean that you should punish those who do work hard by having preconceived notions of laziness because of some charge that gets added to your bill. People who expect bad service often believe they're getting bad service even when they aren't.

 

[sarcasticblonde]

I'm not saying that all servers work hard, nor do all people in any profession on this earth. There are always going to be lazy people who skate by in this world, but that shouldn't mean that you should punish those who do work hard by having preconceived notions of laziness because of some charge that gets added to your bill. People who expect bad service often believe they're getting bad service even when they aren't.

I'd agree with that. If you have something already made up in your head (i.e servers will provide sub par service because they have an guaranteed 18% tip), it's hard for anyone - even a extraordinary server providing you with a enjoyable dining experience - to change one's mind.

 

[mrmagicmph]

I'm NOT one for debates, and am truly NOT trying to start to argue with anyone on here. For that matter, to all customers who have not been servers, please do not take this as "egging you on" and to all servers, please do not take this as being a slight against you or any of your coworkers. I will venture a guess that I have never been served by you and have never eaten in any restaurant that you may have worked, so this is NOT intended to say that you as a server have failed in your job or deserve less OR more of a "tip". I put the word "tip" in quotes for reasons I'll explain now.

According to the Merriam Webster dictionary (not one that is user editable), one of the various definitions of the noun "tip" is a gratuity. A gratuity is defined as "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service" (emphasis added by me). To contrast, a service charge is defined by Merriam Webster as "a fee charged for a particular service often in addition to a standard or basic fee" (emphasis added again).

I do not want to get into a debate on what a fair "tip" for a server is or is not; that's not what my concern with Disney's changes are. I suspect that for at least many (perhaps the majority, perhaps not) of the people who object to the new "tip" being added automatically at 18% when certain conditions are met, their displeasure is the same as mine.

Based upon the definition of a gratuity as compared with that of a service charge, Disney has indeed added a service charge. In one of the previous messages, someone said they felt this was a debate about "semantics". Unfortunately, semantics makes a very big difference. Just as I suspect that everyone would complain about false advertising if a gas station were to say that "only" the premium gasoline would run your car, as opposed to their saying that they "recommend" premium gasoline, so too do we, the consumer, feel that if Disney is changing their policy, they should also change their terminology to reflect what they are actually doing.

Put another way, anyone who has recently seen those commercials where they're showing a car that has obviously just been on fire (it still has smoke coming from it) and the ad that the "seller" is putting on (I think that the commercial is for something like Carfax) says "this car is HOT!" would agree, words make all the difference in the world.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate.

 

[manning]

Guess what I just received today from Disney?



An application form for "Disney Dining Experience"

Just to remove any doubt about the change here it is.

Under the large letters "EXPERIENCE THESE MEMBER BENEFITS" is this.

A charge of 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions regardless of party size at all full service dining locations and lounges.

Gee, some benefit.

Well that seals it, when I receive excellent service I will give the 18% on the discounted price IN PLACE of the 20% on the full price.

If the service is not good the gratuity wll be removed.

Kind of looks like a lot more income taxes are going to be paid. It sure is going to be a heck harder to hide those tips.

I'M NOT ABOUT TO BE TOLD WHAT I AM GOING TO LEAVE AS A GRATUITY!!!

 

[mitros]

I'm NOT one for debates, and am truly NOT trying to start to argue with anyone on here. For that matter, to all customers who have not been servers, please do not take this as "egging you on" and to all servers, please do not take this as being a slight against you or any of your coworkers. I will venture a guess that I have never been served by you and have never eaten in any restaurant that you may have worked, so this is NOT intended to say that you as a server have failed in your job or deserve less OR more of a "tip". I put the word "tip" in quotes for reasons I'll explain now.

According to the Merriam Webster dictionary (not one that is user editable), one of the various definitions of the noun "tip" is a gratuity. A gratuity is defined as "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service" (emphasis added by me). To contrast, a service charge is defined by Merriam Webster as "a fee charged for a particular service often in addition to a standard or basic fee" (emphasis added again).

I do not want to get into a debate on what a fair "tip" for a server is or is not; that's not what my concern with Disney's changes are. I suspect that for at least many (perhaps the majority, perhaps not) of the people who object to the new "tip" being added automatically at 18% when certain conditions are met, their displeasure is the same as mine.

Based upon the definition of a gratuity as compared with that of a service charge, Disney has indeed added a service charge. In one of the previous messages, someone said they felt this was a debate about "semantics". Unfortunately, semantics makes a very big difference. Just as I suspect that everyone would complain about false advertising if a gas station were to say that "only" the premium gasoline would run your car, as opposed to their saying that they "recommend" premium gasoline, so too do we, the consumer, feel that if Disney is changing their policy, they should also change their terminology to reflect what they are actually doing.

Put another way, anyone who has recently seen those commercials where they're showing a car that has obviously just been on fire (it still has smoke coming from it) and the ad that the "seller" is putting on (I think that the commercial is for something like Carfax) says "this car is HOT!" would agree, words make all the difference in the world.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate.

Except that according to disboards, there is no debate board. I'm amazed one of the monitors hasn't shut this thread down yet. I've seen threads that were far less of a "debate'' and they have shut them down. They must all be out Christmas shopping.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Just got an e-mail from the DDE {disney Dining Experience} and they {WDW} are now going to add an 18% tip to all checks, regardless of the number of guests in the party as of Jan. 1, 2008, at ALL food and beverage locations throughout the property. This has GOT to piss everyone off..........

We usually tip over 18% so we will be saving money.

 

[Sandus]

Okay, my patience is gone. You want choice and power? Here it is.

If you don't like how they run the show, DON'T EAT THERE. Otherwise, shut up and pay the fee.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head to dine at Disney restaurants. If you want to be cheap, be my guest, but you'll earn no respect from a lot of people, including me.

 

[PrincessBride010103]

Okay, my patience is gone. You want choice and power? Here it is.

If you don't like how they run the show, DON'T EAT THERE. Otherwise, shut up and pay the fee.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head to dine at Disney restaurants. If you want to be cheap, be my guest, but you'll earn no respect from a lot of people, including me.

Agreed.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Except that according to disboards, there is no debate board. I'm amazed one of the monitors hasn't shut this thread down yet. I've seen threads that were far less of a "debate'' and they have shut them down. They must all be out Christmas shopping.

I was just thinking the same thing. Very angry board tonight......
I do have some comments but I will just laugh to myself, one has to do with, nahhhhh I better not.

 

[ChrisFL]

Okay, my patience is gone. You want choice and power? Here it is.

If you don't like how they run the show, DON'T EAT THERE. Otherwise, shut up and pay the fee.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head to dine at Disney restaurants. If you want to be cheap, be my guest, but you'll earn no respect from a lot of people, including me.

Nice, easier said than done, unless you want to get out, drive off property (or take a cab or something) to have a nice, sit down experience, you're out of luck....really nice, a class move by Disney

 

[paulh]

I'M NOT ABOUT TO BE TOLD WHAT I AM GOING TO LEAVE AS A GRATUITY!!!

Guess that sentance sums up the whole debate.
Paulh

 

[beachblanket]

O.K., now for a new tangent on this thread.

Specifically, how do people think this change is going to affect the service given to parties that don't fall under it? Ergo, in my situation, what should my party of five -- who will not be on the DDE -- expect when we sit down a table service spots in February?

Will the server immediately roll their eyes, viewing us as a "not worth the effort" since there's no guaranteed "gratuity" at our table? Or will they view us as one of those great new opportunities (to get above 18%?)

 

[just another guy]

O.K., now for a new tangent on this thread.

Specifically, how do people think this change is going to affect the service given to parties that don't fall under it? Ergo, in my situation, what should my party of five -- who will not be on the DDE -- expect when we sit down a table service spots in February?

Will the server immediately roll their eyes, viewing us as a "not worth the effort" since there's no guaranteed "gratuity" at our table? Or will they view us as one of those great new opportunities (to get above 18%?)

You can take the "what if's" and view things anyway you want. Servers now get 18% on DDE, so the server won't worry about giving them good service. DDP people now have to pay their own tip, which probably won't be up to the 18% standard, so the server won't take good care of them. Servers will now just ask who is paying straight cash, and only server them properly.






DDE people can still leave extra cash if they want, and DDP people can now tip 100% if they want. 97% of the servers at disney try their best to equally serve all guest the best they can. Thats the bottom line.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

CiCi's Pizza,,,,All you can eat $3.49...no tip required. ºOº

 

[just another guy]

CiCi's Pizza,,,,All you can eat $3.49...no tip required. ºOº

Yup, just the knowledge you best stay within 50 feet of a toilet within the next couple hours.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

Yup, just the knowledge you best stay within 50 feet of a toilet within the next couple hours.

o w t f e. ºOº

 

[tfc3rid]

Look, living in NYC, I am used to having a charge of 20% on parties of 6 or more... After that, it is your choice to add additional gratuity... Same thing applies here... It is what it is... And what it is is standard restaurant practice...

However, it should still be in the servers best interests to provide excellent service because (a) it's their job and (b) better service may equal additional gratuity...